Regwon wrote:this list is horrible (in a competitive sense, otherwise its just like every other bad list down at the flgs)

even though they can be seen more often, demon princes are still better than sorcerersMaybe... not 100% on this one. They used to be far better but now... they get popped fast I would have to disagree with you both here and say that if you're going to have something Terminator-armored, go with a Lord with a Blissgiver. You lose the lash, but this isn't that lashy of a list. Your shooting elements are pretty weak, and most of your troops want to see CC by the end of the game. Drop 2 terminators, buy more Berzerkers, and put the Terminators in a Land Raider.

your terminators need at least 2 powerfists so they can kill big things, some combi-bolters wouldnt go amiss either. they are also too slow and have no ranged fire power so they will spend most of the game doing nothing. DSing Deep Striking Terminators would not be as wise as putting them into the LR. They spend 1-3 turns off-table, and then do nothing the turn they arrive dangerously close to the enemy. Deep Striking is really only advisable with a few things in the game.

plague marines are better than CSM so you should swap them. iven if you dont your PM should have the champ with the fist.I have a unit of plague marines. I want to have 10CSM as these are the central paintscheme. As to how good PMs are, I'm not too sure anymore... They seem to die a lot more than before You can always adapt the PM, and even the Berzerkers to your central paint scheme. You should move that Powerfist though, you only lose 2 initiative that way.

you dont have nearly enough anti tank, 3 TW-lascannon wont cut it. add to that predators suck and vindicators arent as good as oblits. get some oblits instead. S10 Pie plates are fun. It also gives more armour targets. Oblits are good but I don't think they deserver the uber love people give them due to price, toughness IK etc. Predators suk? AR13, LCs and 2 HBs for 130 points? I'm glad someone finally agrees on my about Obliterators sucking total a$$, but that predator bites something fierce. What are you ever going to be firing at that is going to be threatened by both of those weapons? Nothing? Ok then, we're getting somewhere. Put Lascannons on that puppy, and drop some of those extra berzerkers we bought earlier.

if you want to have abaddon you should take out the sorcerer in such small point games. otherwise you are spending too much on characters. Yup, this was kind of a gibbon. 400 points + is toooooooo much Agreed.