http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net
L and H: deathmaster sniktch
H: eshin sorceror
H: eshin sorceror

C: 20 nightrunners
C: 20 nightrunners
C: 20 nightrunners
C: 20 nightrunners
C: 20 slaves
C: 20 slaves
C: 20 stormvermin

S: 10 gutter runners
S: 10 gutter runners
S: 20 giant rats
S: 10 jezzails

R: eshin triad
R: eshin triad

no idea how many points as i have said, just need to build a rough army structure 1st.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/350320.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/350320.page GMT night runners are better in 5 man units.. With no armor save and toughness three they'll be shot to hell regardless. I'd make it a point to specialize each group with either two hand weapons or slings.
Also, I'd make one or both of the gutter runner units tunnelers and give them poisoned hand weapons and if you have spare points slings or poisoned throwing stars. That makes them great at eliminating warmachines and archers.
Giant rats are "meh", but if you like them, take them.. I'd prefer clanrats instead due to their static combat resolution.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/350525.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/350525.page GMT hw instead. Never used slings myself.

Gutters definitely need poisoned hand weapons, though through experience I've dropped the poisoned stars all together. Making them tunnel teams would be a great idea as well. I like to see the quasi-horde aspect you've got going, like with my Eshin, and as noted if giant rats do it for you, that's cool. I've rarely heard anything good about stormvermin but again if you like 'em, do it, just make sure you buy them a nice killy weapon team.

Also, Eshin magic is a bad joke, and I've since dropped down to a single level 1 scroll caddy. Paying all the points for what amounts to +1 dispel dice makes the second sorcerer not worth it.

I get this on points:

L and H: deathmaster sniktch = 515
H: eshin sorceror - 2 dispel scrolls = 125

C: 5 nightrunners - stars = 35
C: 5 nightrunners - stars = 35
C: 5 nightrunners - 2hw = 35
C: 5 nightrunners - 2hw = 35
C: 20 slaves - musician = 44
C: 20 slaves - musician = 44
C: 20 stormvermin - standard, musician, shields, ratling gun = 255

S: 10 gutter runners - tunnel team, poison hw = 170
S: 10 gutter runners - tunnel team, poison hw = 170
S: 3 giant rat packs [18 rats + 3 packmasters) = 90
S: 10 jezzails = 200

R: eshin triad = 210
R: eshin triad = 210

Total: 2173

Depending on the total you're shooting for you can add a bit more (2250) or decide on some things to cut. To trim points I suggest dropping some gutter runners - I use 8 in a squad myself, some people use as small as 3 to go hunt war machines or assassinate characters - and a couple jezzails, 10 is quite heavy for one unit with low leadership. And then it's looking at what's left and deciding how much you like it (rat swarms? stormvermin?)

- Salvage]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/350668.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/350668.page GMT lol.


thanks salvage, if i go for a 2k point army then i guess ill cut out the giant rats, and possibly cut down the gutter runner teams, 1 team of 10 and 1 team of 5 should make it just under 2000 points or thereabouts.

thanks for the help.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/350743.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/350743.page GMT Also, you can give them a magic banner, which for me is typically the umbranner. That's mainly because those heavily armored rats draw a lot of attention and with it, arrows and bullets. But a great way to make this unit shine in close combat is by giving a unit of 20 the banner of the swarm and placing a BSB with a warbanner in the unit. About half of the time you'll still outnumber so your static combat resolution would be 8 when you outnumber and 6 when you don't..
Also, with initiative 5 you strike before most typical units that would outnumber you (i.e. night goblins, men at arms, other skaven, etc.). Most of these would also have WS:3 T:3 and a 4+ armor save, in which case, your halberds and WS:4 mean you'll carve them up quickly enough to regain the outnumber bonus.
I should have clarified better with my suggestions of giving the gutter runners poisoned stars or slings: If there were any fat that needs to be cut, that would be the first thing to drop, but if you find yourself with spare points, the extra ranged ability lends them some flexibility that can come in handy. Also, if I were you, I'd even out the two teams of gutter runners to 7-8 a piece. Smaller skirmisher units are much more of a pain for your opponent as you can squeeze them through narrower gaps to avoid charges and march block much easier. Also, skirmishers don't win combat by attacking as one large unit. They win by ganging up on a unit on 2, 3 or even 4 sides with multiple units, so more smaller units help a lot.
I will say this though: you are attempting to play what I would call the most difficult army in WHFB. Without the advantage of the Strength in Numbers rule, your army's lack of armor and decent leadership, shooting armies will have a field day with you, causing frequent panic checks which increases the probability that there will be a "panic wave" that runs your army off the table in your opponent's first shooting phase. If you're new to the game, I would definitely not recommend this army until you've master the intricacies of the rules and also of the basic skaven army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/351210.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/351210.page GMT lol, a unit of 23, with sniktch concealed in it and the BSB with them, giving me a 25 strong unit in combat, with various bonuses, and the hitting power from the front rank would be deadly.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/352231.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/352231.page GMT The line of reasoning behind most lizardmen players is "only the 6's matter", so they'll pile on 2 negatives without even thinking, because the only shots that hit will auto-wound and with no armor, those auto-wounds mean dead rats..
You could potentially outshoot them with slings.. You're models would be more expensive than the skink player's, but you could outrange him and his units are only toughness 2, which makes a huge difference as well.
Also, just for poops and giggles, try a master assasin with a fellblade or (weeping blade if you're afraid of your general killing himself) instead of sniktch. He's badassed, but he's also 500+ pts if I recall. Then try to get your sorcerers to skitterleap him into combat against your opponent's biggest nasty. With his high initiative, weapon skill, strength,number of attacks and D3 or D6 wounds, he'll take down damned near any big critter in 1-2 combat phases.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/353364.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/353364.page GMT
and whole plan is skitterleap sniktch into thier general at the 1st safe chance i get, hopefully another assassin gets skitterleaped into a wizard and so on, idea is, assassinate all of thier characters with skitterleaping assassins
against small units sniktch will do fine, against small units of monsters he will do fine, back him up with a small unit of gutter runners and a 2nd assassin and he should be able to start killing units.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/353632.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/353632.page GMT
Which is why my army has gutter runners, rat swarms AND Skyre weaponry. Also stormvermin, mainly because people think they're more dangerous than they are.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/354131.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/354131.page GMT gotta pack an army with: jezzails, globadiers, WLC's, but, globadiers are a rare choice, which is used up by my triads, and ill get a unit of jezzails or 2.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/354211.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/354211.page GMT ).

So basically, that's why I've taken to using master assassin, assassin, BSB, level 1 sorc w/ 2 scrolls. Trying to cast that skitter is so not worth it.

- Salvage]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/354226.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/354226.page GMT VC, mortal khorne, mortal tzeench) im guessing magic will be barely effective.
but, failing that i need 2 large units of night runners, with gutter runners behind them, maybe an assassin in each unit, then a triad mixed in with them, they should hit pretty well, only aim is to use the night runners as shields for the triads to get to characters / tough units.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/354609.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/216078/354609.page GMT