<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Power Swords = Lightning Claws?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/15.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Power Swords = Lightning Claws? GW really believe that Power Swords are equal to the power of a Lightning Claw?? Both strike initiative order, both ignore armor saves, but lightning claws get to re-roll to wound.
That means against T3 models, Power Swords wound 2/3 of the time while Lightning Claws wound 8/9 of the time.
That means against T4 models, Power Swords wound 1/2 of the time while Lightning Claws wound 3/4 of the time.
That means against T5 models, Power Swords wound 1/3 of the time while Lightning Claws wound 5/9 of the time.
That means against T6-7 models, Power Swords wound 1/6 of the time while Lightning Claws wound 11/36 of the time.
So, why does a weapon that so plainly outperform it's counterpart cost the same point for point? Is it because Power Swords gain +1 A with pistols while Lightning Claws require a pair for this? Even so, depending on WHO uses it, a Lightning Claw is still more useful than a Power Sword by the sheer fact of the re-rolls outweighing the +1 A.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/399796.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/399796.page GMT Power Swords = Lightning Claws?
But yes, on average, take your Awesomeclaw and be happy with it ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/399804.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/399804.page GMT Power Swords = Lightning Claws? LC's require an extra 15 points for max utility.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/399806.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/399806.page GMT Power Swords = Lightning Claws? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400083.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400083.page GMT Power Swords = Lightning Claws?
Consider:

Veteran Sergeant w/ lightning claw fighting basic Marine -2 attacks, 4's to hit, 3/4 chance to wound, no save.

2x(1/2x3/4) = 3/4 chance to kill a marine

Veteran Sergeant w/ power weapon and pistol fighting basic Marine -3 attacks, 4's to hit, 1/2 chance to wound, no save.

3 x (1/2x1/2) = 3/4

So the odds are the same in this case. But the Power Weapon dude could get lucky and kill a max of 3 guys, whereas the Lightning claw guy caps out at 2.

How about vs a WS 3, T 3 guardsman?

Lightning Claw:

2 x (2/3x8/9) = 32/27 = 1.185%

Power Weapon

3 x (2/3x2/3) = 1.33%

So in this case, the extra attack does better than the increased chances to wound. And the maximum kill potential is higher, too.

What about vs T5 (say, plaguemarines?)

LC - 2 x (1/2 x 5/9) = 5/9 ~ 0.55%

PW - 3 x (1/2 x 1/3) = 1/2 - 0.5%

In this case the LC does marginally better.

Since most things are T4 or T3, I would argue that Power Weapons are actually better overall.

Zoned
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400094.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400094.page GMT Power Swords = Lightning Claws? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400104.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400104.page GMT Power Swords = Lightning Claws?
Suffice to say, the LC do better overall on the charge.

The real point to take home is that isn't as clear cut as the OP suggests. On the charge, LCs are generally better. Sometimes the charge is all you need, too. In a protracted combat, PW are generally better.

Zoned ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400114.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400114.page GMT Re:Power Swords = Lightning Claws?
vanguard vets:

PW no charging:
-vs WS4/T4: 3attacks, 50% to hit, 50% to wound (3*.50*.50)= .75 kills per round
-vs WS3/T3: 3attacks, 67% to hit, 67% to wound (3*.67*.67)= 1.35 kills per round

Claw no charging:
-vs WS4/T4: 2attacks, 50% to hit, 75% to wound (2*.50*.75)= .75 kills per round
-vs ws3/t3: 2attacks, 67% to hit, 89% to wound (2*.67*.89)= 1.19 kills per round

PW charging:
-vs WS4/T4: 4attacks, 50% to hit, 50% to wound (4*.50*.50)= 1.00 kills per round
-vs WS3/T3: 4attacks, 67% to hit, 67% to wound (4*.67*.67)= 1.80 kills per round

Claw charging:
-vs WS4/T4: 3attacks, 50% to hit, 75% to wound (3*.50*.75)= 1.13 kills per round
-vs ws3/t3: 3attacks, 67% to hit, 89% to wound (3*.67*.89)= 1.79 kills per round



Just for fun, lets look at the same comparison for a chapter master/captain:


PW no charging
-vs ws4/t4: 4attacks, 67% to hit, 50% to wound (4*.67*.50)= 1.34 kills per round
-vs ws3/t3: 4attacks, 67% to hit, 67% to wound (4*.67*.67)= 1.80 kills per round

Claw no charging
Claw charging:
-vs WS4/T4: 3attacks, 67% to hit, 75% to wound (3*.67*.75)= 1.51 kills per round
-vs ws3/t3: 3attacks, 67% to hit, 89% to wound (3*.67*.89)= 1.79 kills per round

PW charging
-vs ws4/t4: 5attacks, 67% to hit, 50% to wound (5*.67*.50)= 1.68 kills per round
-vs ws3/t3: 5attacks, 67% to hit, 67% to wound (5*.67*.67)= 2.24 kills per round

Claw charging
Claw charging:
-vs WS4/T4: 4attacks, 67% to hit, 75% to wound (4*.67*.75)= 2.01 kills per round
-vs ws3/t3: 4attacks, 67% to hit, 89% to wound (4*.67*.89)= 2.39 kills per round


Conclusions:
-vs marines with no charge bonus, they should be exactly equal for a vet, but the claw is 11% better on a captain
-vs IG with no charge bonus, PW should be about 12% better for a vet, but less than 1% better for a captain
-vs marines on the charge claw is 13% better for a vet and 16% better for a captain
-vs IG on the charge PW is about 1% better for a vet but the claw is about 6% better for a captain


I am actually suprised. For the veteran it looks dead even to me. I think the same price looks really fair on this entry... now it just falls to accurately predicting your local metagame.

The captain/master is a different story. His higher base attacks and higher hit rate vs marines really lets the claw shine for him. The claw clearly looks like a better choice for an HQ to me, the only time it falls behind is vs IG with no charge bonus and the difference is less than 1%. If your captain/chapter master gets into assault with a bunch of cadians and it was close enough for that 1% to come into play, you have bigger problems than choosing which weapon to take on this guy.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400174.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400174.page GMT Re:Power Swords = Lightning Claws?
Count Bonchula wrote:
The captain/master is a different story. His higher base attacks and higher hit rate vs marines really lets the claw shine for him. The claw clearly looks like a better choice for an HQ to me, the only time it falls behind is vs IG with no charge bonus and the difference is less than 1%. If your captain/chapter master gets into assault with a bunch of cadians and it was close enough for that 1% to come into play, you have bigger problems than choosing which weapon to take on this guy.


I kinda figured units with higher base number of attacks would show less effectiveness with the Power Sword than with the Lightning Claw. Just out of curiosity has anyone run the numbers for Assault Terminators' 2x Lightning Claws vs Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield? I would assume that the hammer and shield would withstand close combat with monstrous creatures much better through wound denial and strength 8 hits while the claws would carve up anything MEQ or less..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400501.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/219720/400501.page GMT