<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM? VAS x9 w. 3x power fist & 2x meltagun

Corbulo
DC x9 - rhino

10x tactical Marine w. las/plas & power fist - rhino
10x tactical Marine w. las/plas & power fist - rhino
10x assault Marine w. 3x plasma pistol & power fist - rhino

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461698.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461698.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
You would have a particularly difficult struggle in KP missions where rhinos are just giving them up far too easily.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461709.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461709.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM? KP. Why do you say "I'm sure it could win, but it doesn't particularly seem designed to do so against either listed foe. "?

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461718.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461718.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461720.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461720.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461721.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461721.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?

Green Blow Fly wrote:The rhino squads are obviously bait for the bikers. Jump infantry needs the rhinos to screen them since they do not have a 4+ cover save at all times, nor can they turbo boost.
G

While it is true that you can block lanes with the Rhinos, the nobz also are packing rokkits, meaning they can alpha strike the rhinos, bag 4 KP's, and then dance around the rest of your army at their leisure, making sure they charge when they want to. You don't have an awful lot of HTH power that is resilient enough to sustain a charge from Nob bikers, and you don't have alot of shooting that can effectively thin them out before they get there.

Against Dual Lash Oblit spam, the rhinos wont stand up to repeated Lascannoning, and the assault marines will have a hard time making a dent in plague marines, and even if they or the Death Company do wipe a unit out (since the chaos player will most likely not give you a multiple charge) then your units will become Lash/Plasma food. I played a BA list that was heavy on Lascannon Razorbacks in the 'Ard Boyz, but his troops were easily lashed and plasma'd to death, and the death company waffled on plague marines.

So no, I don't think this is the BA list to get it done.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461744.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461744.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM? KP's, and then dance around the rest of your army at their leisure, making sure they charge when they want to."

This is the best case for the nob bikers and you are not taking into consideration terrain, who goes first, deployment, etc. Sure a noob will just stick out there rhinos but obviously a veteran would be much wiser.

"You don't have an awful lot of HTH power that is resilient enough to sustain a charge from Nob bikers, and you don't have alot of shooting that can effectively thin them out before they get there."

Your kidding right?

"Against Dual Lash Oblit spam, the rhinos wont stand up to repeated Lascannoning, and the assault marines will have a hard time making a dent in plague marines, and even if they or the Death Company do wipe a unit out (since the chaos player will most likely not give you a multiple charge) then your units will become Lash/Plasma food. I played a BA list that was heavy on Lascannon Razorbacks in the 'Ard Boyz, but his troops were easily lashed and plasma'd to death, and the death company waffled on plague marines. "

See comments above about shooting at the transports. Obviously the assault Marines are not heavy hitters but the DC can rip through an entire DG squad before they even hit back.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461749.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461749.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461753.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461753.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461755.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461755.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
I think the first answer was right, it CAN, as any army can, but I don't think its particularly got an edge on either army, or is even built too well to take on either army.

Two situations:

Nob bikers:

This army is much more manouverable than you, can pick its charge, and none of your units will stand up to a charge from a nob biker unit.

Your previous answer was "your kidding right?"

Not quite sure what your reasoning is that they could, nob bikers will hit with something like ~30 strength 6 attacks and ~10-12 powerklaw attacks, not much stands up to a nob biker charge, certainly not 10 marines of any ilk (minus assault terminators with the new stormshields).

There are 4 guns in your list capable of threatening nobs on bikes (ie, instakilling and ignoring FNP) however he'll get a cover save (4+) against all of them.

After that you have 6 power fists, and have to wade through ~2 warbosses and 20 nobs with those powerfists alone, when that powerfist will rarely survive to make attacks.

Also keep in mind his nob biker units are scoring, whereas he only has to kill 20 tactical marines, and you have nothing to capture objectives any longer.

Im not saying it can't beat it, but I'm saying the odds aren't the best.

Chaos lash/oblit/pm:

9 Oblits will end your rhino's in the first turn in all likelihood, but most likely you'll be devoid of transports by the end of turn 2. At this point you're at the mercy of lash, so your characters and their units won't be seeing combat in all likelihood.

With no hood to help block lash, and only 20 troops, its going to end up the same way as the last match up, he kills your troops, then picks apart the rest.

These are just my opinions and the way I see things going, you so far have been semi defensive (no offense) so take or leave the advice, but its what I see happening, regardless of the players skill.

Edit: Bolded a couple things to make it more readable]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461760.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461760.page GMT Re:Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?

Your previous answer was "your kidding right?"

Not quite sure what your reasoning is that they could, nob bikers will hit with something like ~30 strength 6 attacks and ~10-12 powerklaw attacks, not much stands up to a nob biker charge, certainly not 10 marines of any ilk (minus assault terminators with the new stormshields).

There are 4 guns in your list capable of threatening nobs on bikes (ie, instakilling and ignoring FNP) however he'll get a cover save (4+) against all of them.

After that you have 6 power fists, and have to wade through ~2 warbosses and 20 nobs with those powerfists alone, when that powerfist will rarely survive to make attacks.

Let's give the BA the benefit of the doubt versus nob biker list... as I said prior the noob would just stick out his transports to be popped but the veteran will be much smarter. Here is best case analysis for BA list...

Warboss and nine nobz hit one tactical squad in assault and wipe them out. Next turn nob bikers are assaulted by Dante, VAS, Corbulo and DC:

Dante hits on 3+ with rerolls -> 5 hits, 3 wounds that ignore armor save
Corbulo hits on 3+ with rerolls -> 4 hits, 2 wounds
6 VAS hit on 4+ with rerolls -> 20 hit, 10 wound
9 DC hit on 4+ with rerolls -> 30 hit, 6 rends & 9 wounds
3x VAS with power fist hit on 4+ with reroll -> 10 hit & 8 insta-kill

Also assume Dante and VAS shoot before they charge for two more insta-kills.

Here is the count ->

3 wounds that ignore armor saves kills one nob
21 wounds kill 2.5 nobs
6 rends kill two more nobs
10 insta-kills 7 more nobs

Also keep in mind his nob biker units are scoring, whereas he only has to kill 20 tactical marines, and you have nothing to capture objectives any longer.

The assault Marines are a scoring unit.

9 Oblits will end your rhino's in the first turn in all likelihood, but most likely you'll be devoid of transports by the end of turn 2. At this point you're at the mercy of lash, so your characters and their units won't be seeing combat in all likelihood.

With no hood to help block lash, and only 20 troops, its going to end up the same way as the last match up, he kills your troops, then picks apart the rest.

I have to think on this one... any tactics anyone has to offer is appreciated.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461779.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461779.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM? BA player, but that the nob biker player is almost blind.

I can't see even an overconfident nob biker player charging in a squad when its obvious he'll eat a charge from your two heavy hitters in the coming assault phase.

But even in this case, you wipe the nob biker squad, then your two heavy hitters are about to eat a charge from nob biker squad # 2 and get wiped, leaving only one heavy hitter left to come in and try to kill the second full nob biker unit.

Also keep in mind, the nob biker army typically includes Snikrot and 14 kommandos, who are no slouches in combat either, and since they come in from behind you, they force you to move forward from your board edge, towards the impending crash of nob bikers.

As to strategies against Lash/Oblit, you need a hood, and generally tank spam, however even this is far from foolproof. Not sure if BA have a way to get to the oblits (vanquard marines assaulting when they deepstrike, drop pod units of guys to just torrent them down?something of that sort?)

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461805.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461805.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
Then in objective based games the end result is draw? I was merely pointing out that the BA list does actually have significant hitting power.

Question - how would you deploy the Oblits in DoW setup?

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461816.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461816.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
BA does have hitting power, just not sure its up to snuff with nob bikers (I'm not sure almost anyone is)

Oblits in DOW?

Hrm, they're going to not get to deploy due to the setup, but I'd most likely still walk them on since moving doesn't affect them firing heavy weapons, and deepstriking is a bit risky/no need to get closer to the enemy.

I don't think first turn or second turn would change that really, just walk them on and start plinking away with your gun of choice as per normal.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461829.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461829.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM? DoW if the Oblits setup initially or walk on transports can reach them in two turns.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461834.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461834.page GMT Re:Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?

Green Blow Fly wrote:
Dante hits on 3+ with rerolls -> 5 hits, 3 wounds that ignore armor save
Corbulo hits on 3+ with rerolls -> 4 hits, 2 wounds
6 VAS hit on 4+ with rerolls -> 20 hit, 10 wound
9 DC hit on 4+ with rerolls -> 30 hit, 6 rends & 9 wounds
3x VAS with power fist hit on 4+ with reroll -> 10 hit & 8 insta-kill

Also assume Dante and VAS shoot before they charge for two more insta-kills.

Here is the count ->

3 wounds that ignore armor saves kills one nob
21 wounds kill 2.5 nobs
6 rends kill two more nobs
10 insta-kills 7 more nobs

That many wounds caused means the ork player will get to spread around quite a few wounds, and will be able to allocate ID wounds to nobs that are wounded by power weapons, further reducing the effectiveness of your charge. The Nobs will also have quite a few powerklaws coming back that would most likely head towards your IC's for easy KP's.

EDIT: Also, since the DC and Assault Marines have to relinquish their Jump Packs to have a Rhino, I'm not really seeing how they would be able to get a charge off of the Nobz unless the Ork player really wants you to. I mean, if you castle, his best bet is to just dance around you shooting with Dakkaguns and rokkits, and then do a late game turbo boost to contest an objective or so. The bikes have much more maneuverability that Rhino squads. It may even be better to spam Assault squads so that you have 60 of them or so, and then just charge Dante and Corbulo in head first behind a wave of assault marines.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461904.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461904.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
Good, easy counters, for nob bikes: significant amount of multishot S8 weaponry to win the shooting game + significant amount of S8 assault to win the assault game. Miss out on either and you need to either nullify their shooting game entirely (Armor 12+), or nullify their assault game. The list you've posted in my opinion loses both. So where is the counter?
2 lascannons are not a threat to the bikenobs
your entire army rapidfiring is not a threat to the bikenobs
The bikenobs have a greater threat range than anything you have
So... what's the plan besides hope the bike nob player is an idiot and sacrifices an entire 750 point unit for a single tac squad that is not even a threat?

As for lash + oblits + plague marines, sure you'd win a charge against plague marines if they are all just standing there waiting to get hit by your death company or you'd get lashed forward twice and lose your countercharge to plasmacannons and rapidfiring PMs prior to getting charged by the dual princes. Again, none of the easy counters for these things and instead just bodies.
Hood to break the lash. More S8 Ap2 shooting to defeat oblits at range. Some kind of plan that doesn't involve your opponent charging into a trap?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461905.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461905.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461907.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461907.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
1. If possible why doesn't the ork player take Nob unit 1and avoid your tactical and charge the VAS and Dante it's obvious that they'll do the most damage.

2. It will be possible the supposed countercharge in behind a rhino for cover and the tactical is in front they can have Nob unit 2 shoot the rhino and engage both the tactical and the countercharge thanks to 5th ed rules. (to properly screen you need to large expendable units that are both in BTB)

3. In your example above your assuming 0 casulties from shooting.

4. Your assuming that the VAS will be alive to use thaose fists.

5. Your assuming that all 20 models will be in range to srike

6. Even if all this does happen they way you planned... well allow me to demonstrate.

Nob player charges Tacticals and they die

Death company and VAS charge Nobs and kill them

Nobs unit 2 comes in and kill both squads

Now you're left with 10 marines and 10 assult marines to kill Snikrot 14 kommandos 10 nobs a warboss and whatever other scoring units he's got.

Good Luck!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461924.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461924.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
Dante
5x VAS w. 3x power fist & 2x meltagun - jump pack
5x VAS w. 3x power fist & 2x meltagun - jump pack

Corbulo
5x DC - rhino

10x tactical Marine w. power fist & meltagun - rhino
10x tactical Marine w. power fist & meltagun - rhino
10x assault Marine w. power fist & plasma pistol - rhino

Attack bike w. multi-melta
Attack bike w. multi-melta

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461948.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/461948.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462093.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462093.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
Keep in mind, sisters lists get trashed by builds like those you're talking about, and they field far more melta's than that.

This list gives you more of a chance of getting a charge off with one of your jump squads, which is good, however this just equalizes the playing field with regards to speed, and it won't take a lot of shooting to remove the LOS barriers (3 armor 11 tanks) and then shooting the 2 squads of 5 marines behind.

As for chaos, same issues, even worse in some situations, multi-meltas will get lascannon'd by oblits first turn (won't take many shots to instakill 2 models) and your jump packs will be lashed into terrain, forcing dangerous terrain tests on the way in and the way out.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462136.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462136.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
DC, 2x tactical Marines, assault Marines

The DC are a real bargain as you are only paying for the rhino (cost of each DC Marine is built into the elite choices and the troops).

Here is the model count ->

20x tactical Marine
10x assault Marine
10x VAS
5x DC
2x HQ
2x attack bike

Total = 49 (plus the 4 rhinos)

That is actually a lot of Marines.

In objective based games you use OCE to run the rhinos up to the objectives and the jump squads and bikes come in behind them. From my experience the three troops do very well at holding objectives.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462172.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462172.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
3 Rhinos or 4 Rhinos, Is that a big difference to 9 BS4 lascannons?

9 BS4 Lascannons = 6 hits = 4 Pens, 1 Glance

Army Size:

You realize the ork player with his uber point bloated units is fielding almost as large of an army, right?

My eldar dual jetbike seer council fields 49 models.

I won't argue DC are a bargain, they are, but thats not really the point

Since you seem happy/convinced your list can take on these armies, i recommend you find one to test against, then come back and let us know how it went. You may understand how their builds function better if you play them rather than just looking at their army lists on paper.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462248.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462248.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
Is that experience in casual games, or against these two specific lists, because these tournament lists are an entirely different beast from your average army/game]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462250.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462250.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM? GT with a similar list... three games -> 1W - 1L - 1D for both of us. We played all three missions too.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462258.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462258.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
If i remember right he ran one council, for starters, and although he "placed highest with eldar" he isn't playing the Lash/Oblit or the Nob Biker army.

Take his council, which I'm sure you had troubles with. Make two of them. Make them scoring.

Then you've got more of a feel for what the nob biker list is like]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462285.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462285.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
I had no chance versus the eldar in the kill point mission though.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462317.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462317.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?

targetawg wrote:Rhino's:

3 Rhinos or 4 Rhinos, Is that a big difference to 9 BS4 lascannons?

9 BS4 Lascannons = 6 hits = 4 Pens, 1 Glance

Remember that the rhinos can pop smoke so on average that is only 2 pens... the Chaos player will need to roll a 6 to remove it from the table. If the rhino can move onto an objective and is only wrecked it has served it's purpose.

So anyways the list is a concept so is only theory hammer but I think that is the best place to start. It is based on other BA armies I have played a lot in tournies so I do have some practical experience. I am looking for constructive feedback so I can perfect the overall design.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462329.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462329.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
No offense, but it doesn't sound like he used his GT army, or the toughest build available to eldar, meaning its like comparing apples to orangoutangs if you're trying to draw conclusions about what it would be like to face the CSM or Nob biker builds.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462330.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462330.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
* shrugs *

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462332.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462332.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?

Green Blow Fly wrote:

targetawg wrote:Rhino's:

3 Rhinos or 4 Rhinos, Is that a big difference to 9 BS4 lascannons?

9 BS4 Lascannons = 6 hits = 4 Pens, 1 Glance

I run a Dual Lash, Oblits, and PMs army. And as a heads up even if you pop smoke I usually end up getting at least 2 pens out of each squad. Maybe I'm just lucky or you underestimating someone rolling a 3+ then a 4+.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462446.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462446.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462621.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462621.page GMT Re:Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM? BA list to this above at the GT. It was game 5 and we were on table 12 so he wasn't dreadful...

I was using :

Dual Lash
Plague Marines x3
6 Oblits

By turn 3 the game was over, by 5 his army was wiped out and I was rolling pretty bad.

There is very little you can do against dual lash. You HAVE to kill the demon prince and/or oblits to have any chance vs the csm army and you dont really have any ranged way of even softening them up.

And the suggestion that veteran nob bikers (who have a 24" movement if necessary) will charge a unit which has a counter charge set up next turn is a little naive. Using your example from the rhinos, a noob will do it but anyone with any idea what they're doing will take another path. Remember, he only has to contest one to win bases and is so much faster than you for objectives.

If I'm honest, I think it is very difficult to write a list that can do well against those armies with any list and still be ok vs most other stuff. I think it is virtually impossible with blood angels... If you're an amazing player and lucky then maybe but it's gonna be a tough battle staying on the top tables without psychic protection on an elite army where every hit counts.... (not sure if BA can take hoods???)

As a final note, I would not like the chances of this list vs horde armies (nids/orkies) or really anything mechy / really fast (queer council on bikes /falcons etc) - again, assuming you arn't playing a fool
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462742.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462742.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
"And the suggestion that veteran nob bikers (who have a 24" movement if necessary) will charge a unit which has a counter charge set up next turn is a little naive."

My point was I think the nob bikers would be hesitant to charge any of the troops knowing they would be counter charged. It would probably be a game of cat and mouse.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462785.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462785.page GMT Re:Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
As for the moaning about rhinos - they are awesome... I had 3 KP games in the GT this year and lost 3 in total (took 2)... Even if they do die they still make good cover]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462911.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462911.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462922.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/462922.page GMT Re:Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
Second game dismantled a SW drop pod army running two iron class and a venerable.

These were both 1750 point games. Can easily fit in a venerable Furioso at 1850 points to kill the war bosses.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/469769.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/469769.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
Consider: You retain your moving terrain for your jump packers, you have something that at least isn't going to evaporate the first time a lascannon hits it (probably) and you've got S10 blast templates that help with hordes, oblits, Plague Marines and Nob Bikers.

Now, I understand that no self respecting Nob biker boss is going to prance around in a neat formation for you to blow the crap out of him, but as long as those vindicators are still alive, he has to think hard about committing to a charge. If he gets bunched up in C&C, he might eat demolisher rounds]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470615.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470615.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
zero!!!!!
you put one rend on each nob and then roll your 5+ inv
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470680.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470680.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM? DC unit costs 40 points... that is simply the cost of the rhino and I might as well take them. Sure the rends are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things but if they help to kill two to three nobs they have more than made back their points.

In my opinion the vindicator is a big waste of points unless you feel very lucky.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470764.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470764.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
Even if they've managed to maximize their spread out, you'll catch at minimum 3 nob bikers, even with scatter if they're spread out, you're going to get a few.

That template will get 3-4 wounds depending on how many you touch, and anything under there is dead if they cant roll the 4+ cover save.

Thats a couple dead nob bikers per vindicator, play it right, and you should be able to get off 2 shots before they charge in, that goes a loooong way towards weakening them and lowering the mob rule number and such making them easier to break later on.

Nob bikers bane is the double toughness weapon, the vindicator even is double toughness for the warboss (uh oh!), 3 vindicators = bad day for nob biker.

If only I could still play my Armored company...gotta wait till the IG dex I guess!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470784.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470784.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
Everything you take in a BA army is expensive. You probably need two vindis to make sure they do some damage to the nob bikers. Two vindis would take away from other areas in my army and I am not sure how well they would fare against other armies such as lash/Oblit/PM spam. I do think they could do okay versus hordes though. My list is so tweaked now I have no spare points... I wish I could fit in a venerable Furioso in a drop pod but then I would have to drop one of my three troop choices, which I will not do.

I think nob bikers would turbo boost towards the tanks, rely on their 3+ cover save then destroy them the next turn... 24" turbo boost + 12" move + 6" charge equals 42"... it's hard to hide the tanks and they only have an effective range of 30".

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470843.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470843.page GMT Can this BA list (1750) beat Lash/Oblit/PM & Nob biker SPAM?
It does boil down to a cat and mouse game when you play for objectives. Obviously the nob bikers will have to eventually charge you since their main strength is close combat... therefore it is fairly easy to setup up a counter charge. You can destroy a whole unit by drenching them with meltas then counter charging them with a ton of power fist attacks. The preferred enemy rule for Dante and the -1 to their WS really hurts them. There is still a very good chance that the nob bikers will kill everything that charges them, so you must have enough of your army left after the first bike squad is gone to be able to kill the other squad... that is very hard to do and you will need hot dice.

Setup your units in cover if possible to force them to take dangerous terrain tests... while it is not going to remove any of the nobs from the table every wound counts. The nob biker army is very small so single wounds here and there do add up over the course of several turns.

There is no need to charge in with your HQ if their special rules are still in effect. One mistake I made was charging in Dante and Corbulo the same turn... they could have hung back so the rest of my army would have benefitted from them for close combats following the initial assaults.

Force them to assault your weakest units firsts, such as my rhinos and attack bikes... keep your units embarked inside the transports then spill out when the rhinos are destroyed so you have more hard hitting units to counter charge.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470863.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/223709/470863.page GMT