<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Daemon Prince configurations"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Daemon Prince configurations"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Daemon Prince configurations DPs rather than just Wings, MoS, LoS. Not because I want to be fluffy but because I have some DPs painted in some lovely schemes I'd like to see on the table. I hear a DP with MoN and warptime is pretty tough and good in combat with wings of course. Also DPs with MoS, warptime and wings have seen some play at my FLGS albeit a long while ago.

What I've mainly been considering are Tzeentch builds. It just seems MoT is really kind of a waste on DPs. It's expensive and doesn't really provide a great invulnerable save boost, only puts it at 4+. Sure he can use two powers and take two, but then they become huge point sinks. I've been thinking of a MoT, Wings, Doombolt/Warptime combo DP to set up great shots and assaults with Warptime into a doombolt shooting phase and a rerolling CC. But I've tried him before in 4th ed and he got shot down pretty fast and failed in assault.

It seems MoK is also completely useless. I've seen it on one list here on Dakka and even when I give advice I tell people not to take it. All it does is +1 A. For the same points you can have Doombolt which is IMO better than MoK.

How viable do you think other configurations of DPs do in competitive environs?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491509.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491509.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations MoK is an absolute waste. Better to take Warptime, rename it "Rage of Khorne" or what-have-you, and call it a Khorne Daemon Prince. Way more effective.

Another point - Warptime isn't just re-rolls in close combat, you get to re-roll failed rolls to hit and wound during the shooting phase, too. Tzeentch DPs with Doombolt and Warptime can do a lot of damage.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491523.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491523.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491535.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491535.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations DP with MoT, Wings, and Warptime/Doombolt seems wasteful to me when I can get extreme tactical advantages for 30 points less.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491586.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491586.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491587.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491587.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations
For those times when you absolutely need to score some wounds, Warptime is awesome. But you do run the risk of not really needing it if you have a nice night of rolls.

The combo you're talking about really does seem steep. Especially given that, if you want to keep him alive, you'll either have to field a second one or have some other very expensive/lethal models on the table to remove the temptation to kill him.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491602.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491602.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491613.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491613.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations

Maleficorum wrote:If you really wana have some fun try warptime+wind of chaos and watch your opponents face when you drop the no armour saves template wounding on 4s with rerolls then following assult destroy a squad in one turn

Yes, my Ahriman killed an entire squad of Plague Marines (and the last scoring unit) in one shot with Warp-Wind. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491617.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491617.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations

How is the wording on that though? I thought they weren't rolls to wound, but just rolls you had to score 4+ on so you didn't get rerolls via warptime. But I think I might be wrong. Sounds like I should start trying out some MoT DP combos if it can kill a squad of PMs.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491912.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491912.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations D6 roll of 4+, with no armour or cover saves allowed.

Yup, it's a roll to wound, like a poisoned weapon.

It's a pretty expensive Daemon Prince though, even with the improved survivability. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491916.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491916.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491945.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491945.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations

Nurglitch wrote:Any models fully or partially under the template suffer one wound a D6 roll of 4+, with no armour or cover saves allowed.

Yup, it's a roll to wound, like a poisoned weapon.

It's a pretty expensive Daemon Prince though, even with the improved survivability.

I really wouldn't even call a 4+ Invulnerable added survivability. He has a 3+ to use normally. It's almost like he is always in cover. So if anyone tries to Lascannon, Plasma Gun, or Melta him he will be alright.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491946.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491946.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations

MinMax wrote:MoK is an absolute waste. Better to take Warptime, rename it "Rage of Khorne" or what-have-you, and call it a Khorne Daemon Prince. Way more effective.

Another point - Warptime isn't just re-rolls in close combat, you get to re-roll failed rolls to hit and wound during the shooting phase, too. Tzeentch DPs with Doombolt and Warptime can do a lot of damage.

Is this Codex: CSM Daemon Princes.

All four are good, really. Don't overlook the 140 point Khorne Demon Prince with Wings and +1 Attack, although the 4++ is good too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491966.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/491966.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations lol. But as we all know when comp doesn't matter.... Time to open another can of cheese!

PS: Warp-wind 1 shotting a squad of PMs is juicy

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492183.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492183.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations

Tacobake wrote:

MinMax wrote:MoK is an absolute waste. Better to take Warptime, rename it "Rage of Khorne" or what-have-you, and call it a Khorne Daemon Prince. Way more effective.

Another point - Warptime isn't just re-rolls in close combat, you get to re-roll failed rolls to hit and wound during the shooting phase, too. Tzeentch DPs with Doombolt and Warptime can do a lot of damage.

Is this Codex: CSM Daemon Princes.

All four are good, really. Don't overlook the 140 point Khorne Demon Prince with Wings and +1 Attack, although the 4++ is good too.

It's CSM DPs.

When I look at a 140 Mok, Wings DP I just think "5 fewer points and I have a wingless Lash DP". And comparing the effectiveness of every DP configuration to Lash will be called "unfair" to the other set ups. But when your trying to examine the validity of such configurations you have to take into account that Lash is a very very good psychic power. It's tactical implications are enormous. While MoK, Wings layout is just "Fly around... find some cover... Fly around... find some cover. ALL RIGHT! I can attack now" While Lash princes fly around then Lash, fly around then lash, then fly around Lash and assault (on some occasions at least).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492224.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492224.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations

Sgt. Salt wrote:But you have to take into account the tactical advantage of keeping friends

Laughed my arse off when reading this one.

Honestly the MoT Prince w/ Warptime + Wind of Chaos was my first pick when building my first chaos army. Then I discovered the joys of the lash. The Tz DP is my favorite build for non-competative play, I just don't like lashing my friends too much, I can tell it's not fun for them. The Tz Prince does die in a lot of games, but he makes his points in either kills or the amount of firepower taken off of my other troops to kill him. Just use terrain to your advantage and you'll be fine. If you're playing to kick someone's rear though, without regard to comp., it's best to stick with the winged MoS DP with lash.

Thalor]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492365.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492365.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations MoN+Nurgle's Rot. With the number of people running horde Orks, it's a useful power, especially with the larger base size on Princes. Useful against anything that's not a Marine, and occasionally useful against them too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492429.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492429.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations

tzeentchling wrote:Don't forget the MoN+Nurgle's Rot. With the number of people running horde Orks, it's a useful power, especially with the larger base size on Princes. Useful against anything that's not a Marine, and occasionally useful against them too.

I like that one, and it is a perfect way to fit in some anti-Horde.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492445.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492445.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations MoN that has the nurgle's rot is better that the one with warptime??]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492483.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492483.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations

kormas wrote:just out of curiosity, do people think that the daemon prince with MoN that has the nurgle's rot is better that the one with warptime??

I generally don't take it because it's only puny S3 AP- attacks.

Nurgle's rot, while good against mobs of sucky stuff, won't help at all vs. things like Terminators, ICs, tanks, dreads, etc.

Against vast hordes, I'd rather use Lash and then fire some blasts/flamers/ordinance.

Against elite groups like terminators, I'd rather use Lash and fire some strong guns or use a Nurgle warptime /Slaanesh warptime / Tzeentch wind-of-chaos prince.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492582.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492582.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations

TheBloodGod wrote:

kormas wrote:just out of curiosity, do people think that the daemon prince with MoN that has the nurgle's rot is better that the one with warptime??

I hate to have to agree with you on this but I do. Lash is just far better than Rot. It's better in that it moves things back and bunches them up for high powered shooting phases and assaults while Rot seems to just be an afterthought before an assault or while one is locked in combat.

If I was using a MoN, Warptime, Wings (Maybe) DP I wouldn't run him into a horde of anything. 5 Attacks on the charge rerolling to hit and wound isn't much against 20 ork boyz. The fight is hard to call though. With a higher toughness from MoN the boyz are going to have a rough time hitting him. If the boyz have the charge though they are going to bury a MoN DP in attacks. But I do think if he had Rot he could do better against the boyz as long as he has the advantage of flying up, laying down Rot, then charging in. I think a Rot DP stands a much better chance than a MoN warptime DP against larger units of anything.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492667.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/492667.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations Mok and wings configuration for a few reasons. One, is that its cheap and DP are really broken anyway so I think its worth it. Also, A Mok prince on the charge has to potential to dish out 6 wounds. So if you feel like being bold and betting you will hit with 6, wound with 6, and your opponent will fail 6 saves (very fun when this happens) then this is the unit for you.

just my thought.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493193.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493193.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations

extrenm(54) wrote:Personally, I really like the Mok and wings configuration for a few reasons. One, is that its cheap and DP are really broken anyway so I think its worth it. Also, A Mok prince on the charge has to potential to dish out 6 wounds. So if you feel like being bold and betting you will hit with 6, wound with 6, and your opponent will fail 6 saves (very fun when this happens) then this is the unit for you.

just my thought.

That relies a little too much on chance. A DP that costs the same, a DP with Doombolt and Wings, will move up shoot 3 times with Str4 AP3 shots, then assault with 5 attacks. DPs almost can't miss. It just seems even with Doombolt he will be killing more than with MoK. If MoK DPs could take DoomBolt I wouldn't be making this argument. But because MoK forbids psychic powers it just makes it waste being able to use all those good powers.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493211.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493211.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493218.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493218.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations MoN is that it makes the DP T6. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493225.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493225.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations OP wants different styles of models. MoN and Warptime is good, I've used these Princes to great effect in my tournaments.

MoN and Rot is less good, though 10 points less, and has the advantage of being slightly fluffier (god power and all that). Plus it makes the DP able to take on multiple types of units - the DP as is can take on termies, dreads, ICs and such, so if the opponent has none of these Rot can at least be somewhat useful against horde-styles. Lash is better, yes, but it's boring sometimes, and not good for comp. One doesn't always need to have the best mathhammer/optimized build to win, it simply helps.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493261.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493261.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493323.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493323.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations DP is alone. For a Sorc attached to a unit, the whole unit has to fire at what the Bolt fires at. And if it's a Aspiring Sorc in a unit of Tsons, their fire would be wasted. It can probably crack Dreads pretty reliably.

We also haven't talked about Gift of Chaos either. Again, probably because it's not that good. 30 points for a 6" snipe. But if your hitting low toughness models like Eldar or IG there are pretty good chances you roll over a 3. Can take out ICs but most ICs have high toughness and I guess it's impossible for the power to do anything on anything with a toughness higher than 5. Kind of lame.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493474.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493474.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations
The Bolt of Change is pretty good if you have the targets available, and the right back-up power. It's good combined with the Wind of Chaos or Doombolt (particularly the latter) for doing things like clearing a body-guard of heavily armoured models and taking a pot-shot at an Independent Character. And, as mentioned, lets the Daemon Prince hunt light vehicles from outside his charge range.

As for the Gift of Chaos, it always works on a roll of 6, so if the target has a T8, it'll work on a roll of 6. Also, it works at the beginning of the turn, so your Daemon Prince needs to start a turn very close to the enemy or in combat. Alright for dealing with stuff that has Eternal Warrior, or a hefty invulnerable save, but I'd just use it to create Spawn out of basic troops so that the Spawn can engage a unit and tangle it up in combat so that the Daemon Prince can engage a more immediately important target. Remember that since it's used at the start of the turn, once the Spawn is created it will then charge into combat. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493609.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/493609.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations
Experimental DP list-
DP, MoT, Wind, Warptime, Wings 205
10x PMs, 2x Flamer
10x Zerkers, Champ w/ PF 250
Rhino w/ HL 50

Other list-
Sorc, MoS, LoS
10x CSM
10x CSM, Champ w/ PW, Flamer x2, IoCG
Rhino w/ HL 50
3x Oblits

Field: There is some terrain in the deployment of the DP led list as well as a small box that blocks LOS from the other side. In the center closer to the Other deployment is a circular piece of terrain. Running up the left side of the board are several more boxes that block LOS from some angles. On the right side is an impassable stack on books that doesn't block LOS to anything relevant. There is also another box in the deployment area of the Other list that isn't really used.

Seize ground: Objective in DP's terrain in deployment and objective behind impassable books on other deployment

Deployment: DP list deploys it's Rhinoed Zerkers and the DP next to the box in it's deployment attempting to run up the right side. The PMs are on the right in the terrain with their objective. Other list braces for impact hiding Oblits behind the books and the other piece of impassable in their deployment and behind the terrain that rests toward them in the center. This is where their basic CSM squad goes. The rhinoed CSMs deploy to the right of the terrain trying to punch through to the PMs. The Sorc deploys with the basic CSM squad.

First turn: Not much happened. The DP moved up behind LOS blocking box. The rhino moved out into the open and popped smoke. The PMs repositioned slightly. The Other list tried to get it's Sorc an angle on the DP but failed then ran into terrain by himself. The Basic CSM ran for their objective seeing the DP coming this way. The oblits shamble out and score 1 glance and one pen on the rhino with Lascannons but the rhino makes it's cover save. Other list's Rhino Havoc Launchers the PMs to no effect

Turn 2: DP flys up to an Oblit, hitting him with wind but failing to actually do anything even with rerolls. The rhino moves up 6" and uses it's Havoc Launcher on the Basic CSMs but scatters away to nothing. Zerkers get out of the Rhino. DP assaults Oblit and scores 5 wounds consolidating toward the Basic CSMs by 2". The Sorc tries to handle to Zerkers, lashing them back down the field and into a Plasma Cannon formation. It's Rhino moves forward and Havoc Launchers the PMs again, to no avail. Basic CSMs move toward the DP and give him 2 wounds from double tapping Bolters. DP is shocked at this as he shrugs off a lascannon. Plasma Cannon scatters off of Zerkers an incredible 12 inches!

Turn 3: Zerkers move and run toward the Sorc! DP lines up a nice warptimed wind on the Basic CSMs killing 4 out of the 8 the template hit. Hey, perfect average. Then assaults into them killing another 5. The CSM fails his morale and runs, but manages not to get run down. The Rhino moves up and Havoc Launchers the Sorc, scatters off. PMs chill. The Sorc lashes the Zerkers back again. The oblits double lascannon the DP who makes his saves. The running CSM pot shots at the DP but fails to do anything. The Rhino Havoc Launchers the PMs for the last time.

Turn 4: DP warptime winds a wound onto each oblit then assault them killing one. The Oblit puts a wound on the DP leaving him with one. The Zerkers decide not to keep going for the Sorc and run for the rhino! They use their first to explode it! The explosion kills 1 Zerker and none of the CSMs in the rhino. The Zerker Rhino Havoc Launchers at the Sorc again and fails to wound him. PMs move up to bring their flamers to bare but aren't quite close enough. Sorc Lashes Zerkers into perfect formation to be double flamered and charged. The flamers kill 3 the bolt pistols kill 1, the assault kills 4 more while they only lose 4 total. The Zerkers fail their fearless wounds the the CSMs consolidate away from the PMs. The oblit dies in combat to the DP.

Turn 5: DP flys up to, warptime winds the sorc for 1 wound then assaults him. Suprisingly the Sorc fails to wound him and the DP lays down 5 wounds on the Sorc killing him by several more than he has. PMs double flamer and double tapping the CSM squad to death.

Game ends in the DP list tabling the other list. I had the exact opposite outcome in my head. But it happened I think it speaks to the amount of power that the DP itself has and also for the validity of the MoT, Wings, Warptime, Wind build. Atleast in low point environments. I think I'm going to be taking the DP list to my first escalation league game next month.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/494088.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/494088.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations DP to wander around effectively unsupported.

Lash, on the other hand, is the setup to the one-two combo punch which is finished by blast weapons, so you need your list configured around it. As part of of a combo, it is more delicate and costly to pull off (you need the DP, a successful psychic power, and some pie plates) but far more powerful and flexible when properly executed.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/494330.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/494330.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations FLGS groups.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/494363.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/494363.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations 2d6 assult range for the DP). Its also the chepest power.

Nurgles rot doesnt work very well against anything sadly, except for things that you would already beat with other powers. (esp wind of chaos)

Lastly the BoT-Doombolt works very bad to take potshots at a character after clearing his bodyguard since you shoot everything the same time and the owner distributes the wounds.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/494364.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/494364.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations
Slaanesh (or no slaanesh, I'd go with the 5 point I upgrade though)
Warptime

I think this build is overall the most effective. Lash runs into issues with highly mechanized or psychic resistant armies, where as this one just needs to avoid hoods and beat runes, shadows etc. It has the initiative to take out characters, and needing 3s to hit and 2s to wound the majority of the game with re-rolls usually means 5 wounds on the charge, and 4 without every turn.

Warptime also helps it flip tanks over. re-rolling your 4s to hits and your 6's is pretty major when you're throwing str 6 +2d6 at vehicles.

Nurgle
Rot

Pretty effective infantry butcher. Doesn't matter if they are light or not, extra wounds means extra damage and it probably has the highest damage output out of the close combat ones. He's also a bitch to kill and can tarpit stuff like guard and other weenies.

Khorne

I'd skip it, unless it's for your Khorne themed army. An extra attack, while nice and potentially more damaging than re-rolls in certain situations, isn't worth the points for the mark. I guess if you fear anti psych stuff then go for it. I did the numbers on khorne and warptime, and warptime is optimal in all cases except a stationary vehicle.

Tzeentch
Wind of chaos
Warp-time

This one is absolutely brutal. I haven't used it yet, but I know what it is going to do when it's powers go off - drop like 6 wounds on whatever you're shooting at regardless of their armor or toughness. And then the prince charges in and kills another 4-5. I think 10 power weapon wounds or so between shooting and assaulting is worth the near 200 point price tag. And then it has a 4+ invulnerable, which doesn't seem that significant, but is also on a MC with a 5 toughness and 7 weapon skill and 4 wounds. For obvious reasons a 4+ on 5 toughness is dramatically better than the same save on a lower toughness.

The only drawback I can see for this build is the fruity paint scheme you will have to give it.

The other ones like doombolt/warptime, doom bolt/bolt of change blah blah I don't think are worth using. They suffer from not ignoring cover (which is everywhere now) or just making your prince a gakky tank. I'd prefer to keep him highly mobile with intent on getting into close combat, where he can add to your anti tank ability, take down carnifex's in one turn or otherwise do something else than shoot 3 marine killing shots.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/495242.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/495242.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations

ShadowDeth wrote:My take on the builds : I'm assuming you always buy wings, because why wouldn't you? I also left lash out because everyone else covered it. You move people into blast friendly circles, and flame/battle cannon/plasma cannon/blast master them to death and then the game ends and you win and then you don't have willing opponents anymore.

It seems kinda stupid for your opponents to be like "either make a sucky list or we won't play you"

Players who would stop playing vs. a lasher instead of using their own armies strengths (and every army has somethings which chaos lack.)

Should I stop playing vanilla marines because their termies have 3+ invulnerable saves in combat compared to my 5+? Or their Landraider variants fire several more guns than chaos ones?

Oblits are good at what they are, expensive, sluggish, big guns. The unit can be wiped out by 3 lascannon shots though, and it costs about as much as a Landraider w/ Armor 14, or a squad of 8 havocs w/ 2 autocannons + 2 lascannons, which would take a whole 8 lascannon shots to remove.

While some might like to believe that chaos all play the same army list, it just isn't the case. I see plenty of every type of troop marine (reg. / berz. / noise / plague / sons) being used. Heavies are also heavily varied, people mix up landraiders, vindicators, obliterators, and defilers. The chosen and possessed and spawn and lesser daemons all seem overpriced though, which is probably why lists generally seem to lack variety.

Chaos will never be fast-and-shooty like vanilla or eldar, so we have to have some compensation.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/495451.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/495451.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations

ShadowDeth wrote:
Tzeentch
Wind of chaos
Warp-time

This one is absolutely brutal. I haven't used it yet, but I know what it is going to do when it's powers go off - drop like 6 wounds on whatever you're shooting at regardless of their armor or toughness. And then the prince charges in and kills another 4-5. I think 10 power weapon wounds or so between shooting and assaulting is worth the near 200 point price tag. And then it has a 4+ invulnerable, which doesn't seem that significant, but is also on a MC with a 5 toughness and 7 weapon skill and 4 wounds. For obvious reasons a 4+ on 5 toughness is dramatically better than the same save on a lower toughness.

The only drawback I can see for this build is the fruity paint scheme you will have to give it.

The other ones like doombolt/warptime, doom bolt/bolt of change blah blah I don't think are worth using. They suffer from not ignoring cover (which is everywhere now) or just making your prince a gakky tank. I'd prefer to keep him highly mobile with intent on getting into close combat, where he can add to your anti tank ability, take down carnifex's in one turn or otherwise do something else than shoot 3 marine killing shots.

Although I don't agree with your analysis of Nurgle's Rot, I don't believe it to be very effective in any situation, I think your views on a MoT, Wind, Warptime DP are spot on. When I first finished painting up my MoT DP I found it very useless as it was Wings, Doombolt, Warptime. He flew on top of buildings and took out marines. Then stood around for a turn getting shot to pieces. Then the next turn do it again and charge. Sure he might take out a squad but he usually ended up dead from his one round of shooting due to the 18" range. You don't want to neuter the power by not using it's range, but you don't want to leave your DP vulnerable either. With BoC and Warptime, I found his 1 shot useless a majority of the time. He'd shoot a rhino, maybe pop it, maybe, then he'd go about moving forward firing and attempting a charge.

But with Wind and Warptime it's honestly pure gold. I need to test it some more but it's perfect so far. He finds some LOS blocking terrain feature hides for a turn then pops out for a rather devastating rerolling wind and assault phase. The best part is his 4++ save. It's almost like he is always in cover. So even if he wipes the squad he assaults he has a better chance at surviving what might be a brutal enemy shooting phase.

What's even better is a nearby Lash Sorcerer to back him up. Hate to support Lash in a thread I started looking for alternatives but a Lash Sorc hiding in a squad could break from his squad to set up a full force rerolled wind and assault from the MoT DP. I'm going to go get some test games in with it this weekend as long as my impending surgery doesn't get in the way.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/495945.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/495945.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations
MoT, wings, warp time, wind of chaos

MoN, wings, rot

I am an advocating that these are the most powerful builds but they are effective and fluffy in my opinion.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/496056.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/496056.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations
i use Kharn and a Khorne DP as my HQ's.

the Khorne DP is a asset in this kind of army.
He becomes your tank hunter and can also be a sacrifice to allow your Beserker Squads to get into combat.

But thats just me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/496523.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/496523.page GMT Re:Daemon Prince configurations

Ænema wrote:
the Khorne DP is a asset in this kind of army.
He becomes your tank hunter and can also be a sacrifice to allow your Beserker Squads to get into combat.

Before I begin, I'd like to say I don't think DPs tank hunt very well. If it moved 6" you need 4 plus no rerolls with a MoK DP, if it moved 12" your screwed and have to hit it on 6s. I think if anyone in their right mind sees him coming they are going to start moving a little more and shooting the DP to death.

Now back to why I'm bumping this. I went to my FLGS last night and had a good sit down with everyone and played some games. Sadly I only played vs. Khorne Chaos Daemons and wasn't really able to fully gauge the effectiveness of the MoT DP against a more traditional army. I had to sacrifice him once to a group of Blood Crushers and on another game he actually failed to use Wind with a 12 that he made both invulnerable saves not to take any wounds from. He also beat some Blood Crushers in assault a few times taking the squad down single handed. He did wade through a group of Blood Letters and pop a Soul Grinder. Given this was in smaller points games (750, we're play testing for our up coming League).

The actual point of this is every time I was about to wind I kept thinking, I wish I had a Lash Sorc/Prince to facilitate this better. I think this is a problem, I've played Lash Sorcs in the past and I'm so very used to them setting up my templates that it's hard for me to imagine not catching an entire squad with one. I won every game I played with my list handily and I think the same would have occurred against anyone that night. But I think there is a problem with the player mentality with C:CSMs. Lash is a great power, but there are other good powers. Lash just makes other things much much better. Flame templates? Lash will have you hitting that whole squad. Plasma Cannons? Just don't drift and your set. A warp timed wind of chaos? I'm sure there won't be a squad there after the assault. I know it sounds like a cop out but every time I think of a weapon or a strategy I always think now "Lash could make this even better!". I've been playing without Lash a little longer than just now too and I always think that Lash could make my lists better rather than the throw away HQs or the test HQs.

I think this would go for any army really. If they had Lash it would dominate the list. It just makes so many things so much better. I just hope in the next C:CSMs they don't try to tone it down, just replace it. As is it is very effective, but any less and it suddenly becomes garbage. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/502448.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/502448.page GMT Daemon Prince configurations DP. I run a Black Legion one with Wings and Warptime. Effective in close combat, tough, and mobile. However, you could gear one with MoT and 2 ranged psychic powers for some shooty goodness. If I'm not mistaken, Monstrous Creatures can still fire two weapons a turn, so I believe you could use two ranged psychic powers in the same turn, though I could be wrong as I've not poured over the 5th ed. rulebook that much. Also, most of the time your DP will attract a lot of attention, so don't look for it to last all that long. That's why I try to get into close combat ASAP.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/505730.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/225483/505730.page GMT