<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
Blood Claws in pods are insanely good right now. By taking an 11th member in the squad, you can take a third power fist, and still have room in the pod for a wolf guard sergeant with a power fist of his own. With the counterchange and berzerk charge special rules, that squad is going to get 12 power fist attacks and 31 regular attacks when it charges or when it gets charged. (And that's not even including the characters that go with it)

I'm really happy with this design. 72 bodies with 25 power fists is extremely fierce in HTH combat, and with so many power fists, I find that I don't need many anti-tank or anti-monstrous creature weapons because the fists can handle almost anything out there.
I place Ragnar with the grey hunters so they have berzerk charge as well.

Depending on the opponent, I'll either hide the first three units behind their pods until they can charge the next turn, or I'll deploy in front and hit the enemy with some flamers and bolt shots. It all depends on how much hurt my opponent can put on me. The nice thing about the Wolf Guard Battle leaders is that their combi-meltaguns hit on a 2+, so I get a lot of utility out of that one shot, and they can detach from their squad when they land if they want to and pop a tank.

When I started playtesting the army, I thought it would have trouble with mechanized builds, but boy was I wrong. In 5th edition all power fist hits go against the rear armor, so I found that even when the vehicles were moving fast I'd still get more then enough hits to bring them down. In fact, sometimes I'd charge two or three tanks at once with the same squad and still have enough hits to bring them down.

So far I've played against IG, Mech Eldar, and Shooty Marines, and this list has done extremely well against them. In fact, I like it so much I'm painting up all the power fists I need so I can start fielding it in tournaments instead of just proxying the fists.


2000 Points

Uses Rules From Space Wolves Space Marines Codex

Models: 72 Vehicles: 6

HQ:
Ragnar Blackmane (175 Points)

Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Power Fist and Combi-Meltagun. (100 Points)

Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Power Fist and Combi-Meltagun. (100 Points)

Troops:
Grey Hunters Pack (11 model total):
2 Grey Hunters with Power Fist and Bolt Pistol, 1 Grey Hunter with Meltagun, 7 Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. (210 Points)
Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Combi-Meltagun, and Power Fist. (55 Points)
Drop Pod. (35 Points)

Blood Claws Pack (11 model total):
3 Blood Claws with Power Fist, 1 Blood Claw with Flamer, 7 Blood Claws with Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. (196 Points)
Drop Pod with Locator Beacon. (45 Points)

Blood Claws Pack (11 model total):
3 Blood Claws with Power Fist, 1 Blood Claw with Flamer, 7 Blood Claws with Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. (196 Points)
Drop Pod with Locator Beacon. (45 Points)

Blood Claws Pack (12 model total):
3 Blood Claws with Power Fist, 1 Blood Claw with Flamer, 7 Blood Claws with Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. (196 Points)
Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Combi-Flamer, and Power Fist. (50 Points)
Drop Pod. (35 Points)

Blood Claws Pack (12 model total):
3 Blood Claws with Power Fist, 1 Blood Claw with Flamer, 7 Blood Claws with Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. (196 Points)
Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Combi-Flamer, and Power Fist. (50 Points)
Drop Pod. (35 Points)

Blood Claws Pack (12 model total):
3 Blood Claws with Power Fist, 1 Blood Claw with Flamer, 7 Blood Claws with Bolt Pistols and Chainswords. (196 Points)
Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Combi-Flamer, and Power Fist. (50 Points)
Drop Pod. (35 Points)
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/510926.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/510926.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review WGBLs. Better leadership, a 4++ save and the ability to ignore two non PW wounds a turn is nothing to sneeze at.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/510939.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/510939.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
Durandal wrote:That should be fun, and fluffy. However I think a Wolf priest would be a good alternative to one of your WGBLs. Better leadership, a 4++ save and the ability to ignore two non PW wounds a turn is nothing to sneeze at.

Good thought. Thanks, bro. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/512191.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/512191.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513288.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513288.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
1. Can't assault out of drop pods.
2. Blood Claws suck in HTH.

You have nothing that can kill an iron clad. You have nothing to deal with a monolith. You have nothing to really deal with vehicles at all. You have 3 melta's and one is a combi. I just don't see you doing well. Orks would own you bad.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513312.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513312.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review cc? They have countercharge and three power fist... Plus WGBL with power fist leading them. If it were me I would take a second squad of Grey Hunters though.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513428.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513428.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513431.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513431.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
MauleedlovesYakeface wrote:
You have nothing that can kill an iron clad.

Since when can't power fists kill iron clads? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513554.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513554.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
These are the main drawbacks to Blood Claws:
WS3/Your opponent's with WS4+ hit them on 3+
Low Ld but you make up for this with the characters joined to them.
After the initial charge the number of power fist attacks drops off considerably but hopefully you will already have inflicted sufficient damage

SW are semi stubborn now so that should help a bit.

I think the best thing your army has going is all those scoring units plus Ragnar.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513564.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513564.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review WS 3 BS 3 which suck. How ofter are you going to hit?

You have to make your leadership test to get that +1 attack. What is their leadership? 8

Taking 10 wounds could mean that you lose some PFs.

I just don't see putting pups into combat.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513591.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513591.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
You can also take some wolves to soak wounds.

I like that idea. Do they still take up space in a transport, or are they wargear now?

MauleedlovesYakeface wrote:Those guys have WS 3 BS 3 which suck. How ofter are you going to hit?

They'll hit in HTH on a 4+, same as almost any other marine assault unit.

There are a few isolated instances where they'll need a 5+ to hit, like an eldar avatar and some greater demons, but regular WS4 marines hit those on a 5+ as well.

I agree there are some drawbacks, and I think Green Bow did an excellent job of listing them, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a small trade off for how cheap they are (especially their upgrades. 12 points for a power fist, yes please and may I have fourteen more?)

You have to make your leadership test to get that +1 attack. What is their leadership? 8

They all have characters leading them, so it's 9. Statistically that means they'll get the extra +2 attacks per model 85% of the instances when they are charged.
(ragnar's unit is leadership 10, which passes 92% of the time)

Taking 10 wounds could mean that you lose some PFs.

Of course, but that's true of everything in 5th edition. The benefit here is that if I lose two fists in a unit I still have two more, whereas most assault units are screwed if they lose their character.

Orks would own you bad.

That's what the 8 flamers are for. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513622.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513622.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review GW needs to address this issue because people want to abuse this.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513889.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513889.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
MauleedlovesYakeface wrote:Those guys have WS 3 BS 3 which suck. How ofter are you going to hit?


HALF of the time.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513902.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/513902.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
MauleedlovesYakeface wrote:They dont' get +2 attacks on the counter charge. They get +1. The rule for counter-charge is now universal. You don't get to double up on it. GW needs to address this issue because people want to abuse this.

Abuse is just a buzz-word. It doesn't mean anything. The rules are what mean something.

The rules say that counter-charge is resolved exactly like charging, and blood claws get +2 when they charge. Codex overrides rulebook. That is how the GT's rule it (I already asked), that is how my local tournaments rule it (again, I already asked), and that is how the majority of Dakka members interpret it.

If you want to go argue it on YMTC, go ahead, but you'll find you are in an overwhelming minority.

Sufficed to say, this thread is not the place to argue rules interpretations. You have given your opinions on this list, and I thank you for it. I would now like to give other members the ability to comment on it instead. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514147.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514147.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review WTF is a Green Bow?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514286.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514286.page GMT Re:2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review FAQ/Errata out that changed that I dont think you can mix codices.

Just stating this since I play BT's and wish I could use new drop pod rules.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514347.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514347.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review SW FAQ says to use C: SM.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514357.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514357.page GMT Re:2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review FAQ for space wolves and now I'm jealous.

Nice army list seems very well rounded meltaguns out of drop pods ftw.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514373.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514373.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
Green Blow Fly wrote:WTF is a Green Bow?

That's you. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514671.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514671.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514726.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514726.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review SWs in Fourth, I found that the first round of firepower was pretty important. I've seen a few BC-heavy lists show up on Al Gore's invention lately.

Fenrisian wolves do take up a spot in a transport.

Mind you, I haven't played podding Wolves in fifth, but based on my experiences in fourth, but here's my thoughts.

I think taking GHs with 2x plasma pistols, a meltagun, and a Pack Leader with a combi-weapon - while more points - is still the way to go. Drop down, and take out a unit by combining fire from 2-3 units. But, I can see taking a unit of two of BCs to come in and mop up in combat and counter-assault any units that engage the GHs.

Whether you stay BC heavy or not, I think the HQs could be improved. I think a Rune Priest with Frost Blade, Chooser of the Slain, and either a Runic Staff, Combi-weapon or Storm Shield is a consideration. Being able to grant cover to a unit can help, and I remember a GH pack using the Initiative 10 of cover to help take down a charging genestealer pack. Plus, you can grant 5+ cover to the closest unit, and then hide the rest of the Wolves behind them for 4+ cover. A wolf priest is a good alternate as well.

Can you take Ragnar and a Wolf Lord? I think it's against RAI, but it might be allowed by RAW. I know that Ragnar is a Wolf Lord by rank, but not sure if the rules classify him as a Wolf Lord. If it's allowable, I'd think about upgrading a WGBL to the Wolf Lord - for 15 points, you get +1 Ld and +1 Wound. The extra leadership is great for counter attack.

If you play the list, please post how it does. Like I said, I still think that GH-heavy is the way to go with pods, but I'd like to know how a BC-heavy list does.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514780.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514780.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review SW player. Drop pod armies are passé at best.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514952.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/514952.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review SW (at least now), which is why I haven't played with pods in fifth. But, since OP did mount the whole list in pods, I stuck with that theme. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/515751.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/515751.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
SW codex is comming in 2009 or 10]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/515981.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/515981.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review SW and I believe that is because their troop choices are assault squads that have great options for close combat. Simple is the best.

G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/516921.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/516921.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517425.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517425.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
Green Blow Fly wrote:Here is the thing Dietrich and believe me when I say I respect your prowess as a SW player. Drop pod armies are passé at best.
G


Green Blow Fly wrote:Drop pods work for SW and I believe that is because their troop choices are assault squads that have great options for close combat. Simple is the best.
G

GBF, are they passe or effective? Seems like you're putting forth two different ideas. I think SW can work as a pod force, and are one of the more effective podding forces. But I think that mechanized is better for them right now and opens up more options (taking a few pods is still a consideration). In fourth, the bane of my pod lists were mech forces, who could stand off and shoot at range. Sure, you'd drop and meltagun a tank or two - and the rest would rain fire upon you. And now there's a lot more vehicles on the board. It just seems like mech gives more options (greater mobility, ability to hide in the transport) in fifth. Granted, the number of games of fifth that I've played is less than the number of digits on my fingers, so I may be totally off on this.......


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517435.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517435.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
dietrich wrote:
In fourth, the bane of my pod lists were mech forces


I playtested this list against a mechanized razorback and predator army last night, and I tabled him turn 4. The key difference between 4th edition mechanized and 5th edition mechanized is that tanks are a lot more difficult to kill with shooting, but much easier to kill in HTH combat. Across the board they are easier to hit in HTH combat (Skimmers are no longer always hit on a 6, and tanks are generally forced to move 6 inches or less in order to shoot) and all hits go against rear armor, which is huge.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517576.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517576.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review DT - what's the advantage of podding vs. rhino/raider assault? It seems like the main advantage of the pod (not on the board) isn't better than a rhino (can hide troops inside, can move to block LOS). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517617.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517617.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review sw mech as army will beat a sw pod army. Mech army stays embarked and then counter assaults which includes a turn of shooting.

I play a mech BA army and have no desire to go pod. My rhinos are better but the advantage of moving where you want and reliably building armored walls is better for my style. Pods are open topped and will be taken off the table 50% of the time when penned. The razorback is not the tight army to mechanize an assault style sm army.

G ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517800.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517800.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
dietrich wrote:I can see that. DT - what's the advantage of podding vs. rhino/raider assault? It seems like the main advantage of the pod (not on the board) isn't better than a rhino (can hide troops inside, can move to block LOS).

Good question. The pros of pods is that they give you access to larger squads, hit the enemy sooner, cannot be destroyed before delivering their cargo where you want it, and the second wave can land directly onto distant objectives. The cons of pods are piecemeal arrival and vulnerability to mystics.

The Pros of Mechanized is that they generally start on the table instead of arriving peacemeal. The Con of mechanized is that the transports can be destroyed far from the enemy and the squads inside play no real part in the rest of the battle, and it is very hard to take off after distant objectives late in the game.

As a general rule, as the enemy's ability to destroy your transports at long range increases, pods become an increasingly more effective configuration. So, it can depend on your local metagame. If you play against a lot of genestealer swarms, go mech; if you play against a lot of IG and Tau, go pods.

Playstyle is also very important. Pod armies favor aggressive players who don't mind taking big risks for big gains.

I play both, and I find that pod armies are less reliable but win by greater margins, while mechanized are more reliable but win by smaller margins.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517801.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517801.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
Green Blow Fly wrote:A sw mech as army will beat a sw pod army. Mech army stays embarked and then counter assaults which includes a turn of shooting.

I play a mech BA army and have no desire to go pod. My rhinos are better but the advantage of moving where you want and reliably building armored walls is better for my style. Pods are open topped and will be taken off the table 50% of the time when penned. The razorback is not the tight army to mechanize an assault style sm army.

G


I play pod, and I will also agree that mech armies are the bane of pod armies. HOWEVER, I disagree with you that it's because mech armies are fundamentally "better."

It's more of a rock-paper-scissors argument. Shooty armies are paper, pod armies are scissors, and mech armies are rock.

Against shooty armies, pod armies drop down and rape them three ways from sunday. Shooty armies' protection is the 2 rounds of shooting they get before the enemy reaches them. However, if you deny them that, then they come crashing down like a house of cards.

Against mech armies though, you drop down and that first turn of shooting is wasted blasting into enemy tanks. This is why drop pod armies either need SO much firepower that they can take out the transports AND shred some infantry as well first turn, or they need to drop something that can counter shrug off the shooting (such as ironclads), while still knocking them out of their transports. Playing against a mirror army mounted in rhinos, you would drop down and find yourself 1) against the entire enemy (vs 50% +1 of yours), and it would be THEY having the first turn shooting advantage (after which they can charge, which you couldn't do).

However, remember that shooty armies are also the bane of mech. An IG gunline loaded with lascannons can knock out a tonne of those transports before they reach you, and you will be SOL with your men running up the battlefield.

However, against the sheer number of squads you have, You could easily land on one side of a mech army, use those meltas to knock them out of their tanks, and block off the rest of the army from reaching your troops. This is the true strength of pod armies, being able to engage the enemy anywhere you please, and on your terms.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517899.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517899.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517965.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/226695/517965.page GMT 2000 Point Space Wolf Assault Drop Pod Tournament Army for review
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