<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/7.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
I commissioned a sculptor from Bartertown by the name of Redstarone (Or Conversion Corner), who ran ad advert on their site, for a reposed/sculpted Blood Thirster. We hammered out the details concerning the pose, price and date and I sent the model to his address. On November 14th he received the model and stated ‘It would probably be done the day it arrived or perhaps a couple of days after!”. Fair enough.

For the next month, I received one WIP shot update of the model and many excuses. This WIP shot showed a the BloodThirster slightly reposed with a few pins. Not a great deal of work done. During this time, he assured me a few times it will be sent to accomadate a tournament that was upcoming but this deadline too passes without the model. Finally after a month of this, come December 15th I receive this email;

If ship it tuesday morning before the first ship out at the post office it should make it to you friday. Would that be to late in the day friday? I know you wanted to paint it.. If so, LMK ASAP and ill check into overnighting it, or 2 daying it. Ill pay the extra in shipping of course as its my complete messup its not already done.


I assure him that overnight was not necessary but to please send tracking when it did hit the post. Come December 22nd however, no word from him and no model. So I send a query email and receive this response;

The status remains unchanged. PS sorry for no update. Ive seriously had 2 clients down my throat for commissions that had no due dates but then all of a sudden, they want their stuff now. So yea, its been fun dealing with them.


Now, keep in mind his site is showing updates to other commissions…and not mine. I’ve been cordial accommodating and completely civil…and it’s getting me tossed on the back burner. Still, honey over gasoline and all that…so I send an email stating ; “I just need a solid date when it will ship. Thanks” He emails;

How about the 29th? Its next monday. I will be back home sunday sometime so Monday shouldnt be a problem. If I do get a chance to ship while im out of town I will just to save the trouble of doing it when I get back. That work for ya?

Again, all these delays are pretty much unavoidable. Kinda why im now doing it for free.


Big red flag, the commission is now free. This may seem like customer tact and surely his trail of broken promises warrant a discount…but I’m afraid this will lay the foundation for further delays (It’s free dude!). So I email back and assure him I will pay for at least half the commission and only accept a small cut due to tardiness. Cool he says…and on we go to a disaster. He emails stating that his fiancée had been rushed to the hospital on November 2nd, due to a reaction that she had to medication. She is in the early stages of the 2nd trimester and might miscarry. As a nurse, hey I completely understand and assure him of that. Now keep in mind, I’m really an easy going guy that understands these situations. However, his conversion website had been updated on 12/14, 12/26, 12/28, 12/29 with other commission projects…yet I still received no model or pictures. What am I to say to this situation however? Even if it happened 3 days after he promised to ship? Of course, I can’t…as real life trumps models in every fashion even if this terrible disaster happened after a trail of broken promises. So…I once again assure him no problem and that I wished his family the best. No requests for updates, just well wishes.

On November 6th, he sends an email stating his fiancée had miscarried his son. He states he will send the model completed within the next day, along with free bits for the previous months delay. Well, we go to November 14th and I send an email inquiring on how he is doing and receive this back;

Hey Ryan,

Nope it hasn’t shipped. Its getting shipped with the next batch of stuff. Basically blame this one donkey-cave that seriously messed up every single commission due date because he wanted to pop out of no where with a due date when there wasnt one from the start. I tried to refund his money instead and he refused then threatened a BTR on bartertown for no damn reason. Problem is, according to BT, he CAN leave me one if he feels ive handled the commissions crappy.

Whats BS, is he paid basically nothing, got work 10 times the levbel he wanted, he sent gak that was diffrent and a ton of other small things that he did wrong. That means nothing to him. Nor does NAME REMOVED being sick and losing our son. He literally said "big deal what does that have to do with me".

So basically, I have to get this guys gak out for sure with the next batch, and as such, all the ones that were going to go out yesterday, are waiting until his crap is done. I know, its annoying, but honestly, I cant take a bus to the post office twice in 1 week. It already tkes an hour each way just to get there because the bus stop takes like 20 stops first. (NAME REMOVED has our car at her parents, ive been busing it)

BTW Im glad your safe and sound. I really was worried.


It seems he is concerned as I hadn’t been on messenger lately (rough schedule at work). I assure him no problem just give me a heads up when he plans to ship. Friday he says. Well, Friday comes and goes and I send an email asking on the 20th…and receive an angry reply that I was told when it would ship. I reply;


Yes, I recall that conversation, however I was under the impression you were planning on shipping Friday. At this point, as it's been two+ months now…I have yet to see any update pictures. I'm prepared to receive the model in whatever condition, just please ship.


Well this gets two emails, very beligirent and over the top. He says I’m calling him a liar, yadda yadda. The highlight;
i then told you its free of charge. I mean 2 months is one thing, but for a commission, others ahead of you that got skipped, and the fact you arent paying anything.. think about it. If I would have done it in the order of commissions, you would still be waiting.


So, we come back to the “It’s free so you’ll get it when you get it” issue I was worried about previous. However, even though he previously misled me several times he did state he underwent a tragic circumstance recently. Even though, his website had been updated since that tragic circumstance with other commission pictures (some of which he told me and ranted about his other customers!)…I need to give him the benefit of the doubt. So I reply back on Jan. 20th;

Well…
I certainly understand the situation and circumstances that surrounded the past month but keep in mind this conversation about the model is taking place in the vacuum of the internet. I do not personally know you but I try to understand special situations. Originally, before this month, I was told the conversion would be complete the day it arrived. Which, I of course, stated was not necessary but that I looked forward to progress pictures. Many times throughout our conversation, I was promised update pictures or shipping dates which I was forced to ask about via email after the date had passed. So why you might not have lied to me maliciously, I have seen several promises pass. Also, during this same time period your site showed many updates to projects other than my own. Perhaps my kindness was my own undoing in the matter. Again, I understand circumstances arise beyond our control but this happened many times throughout the process before your devastating loss.
Also, I might add that while the free conversion certainly was an apt offer in terms of customer satisfaction, keep in mind I stated I would take nothing free but send half of the conversion price when it arrived regardless of tardiness. I did this precisely to avoid the following statement;

i then told you its free of charge. I mean 2 months is one thing, but for a commission, others ahead of you that got skipped, and the fact you arent paying anything.. think about it. If I would have done it in the order of commissions, you would still be waiting.

I was quite afraid this might happen and didn't want the free price…to further add to the tardiness of the commission. To explain further, while I am not good with the greenstuff, I can complete projects in a lengthy time period thus part of the allure of paid commissions is time and effort saved. I sincerely hope this email finds you well but please understand the situation I am in. I sent a paid model to a unknown individual whom has let many deadlines (both in pictures and deliveries) pass. When I have finally stated enough, please send the model....I get an angry email in response. So, I do not send this email as an admonishment, simply as a way to close this commission up. I don't rightfully know if I'll post a neutral via Bartertown. I'm not vindictive nor do I want this conversation about toy soldiers to turn into a fiasco, I simply want the model. Please insure and send the tracking when it hits the post. If you need Paypal for the insurance, let me know the total once it ships.

His reply;

You know, forget it. I was going to anwser all your claims in turn. But I wont as just like the other guy, you feel like youve been the one wronged and nothing I say will make you understand.

Im going to end on this, like I said, post what you want on BT, I wont even debate it with you.


I reply back simply;

So, when will this ship?

His reply;

Tomorrow if I get off work earlier then I did today (630pm). If I cant get out early enough then on Thursday.

In case your wondering I wont have the pics until sometime after its shipped. I simply have zero time right now.


On the 21st, I receive;

Well, I just double checked my work schedule and I work both tomorrow and thursday. Ill try and get out during lunch if I can other wise I doupt ill be out of work either days before 6pm.
Also you didnt mention how much you want it insured for. 50 retail or 80 retail plus the 30 you want to pay that I cant refuse or 110 the retail and the original 60 for the commission?


I reply;

Insured for 50 would be fine, thanks.

On the 23rd, I receive a PM on Dakka from him;

Well I just had to unpack the thirster to retake 2 of the pictures. When i did I noticed a few of the green stuff dread tips broke off.
I can either send it how it is.
Fix the dread tips with brown stuff as its much harder and less likely to break.
Fix it with more GS if you dont like BS.
No matter what I do it wont really change the date you recieve the guy on. I can either ship now as is, or in the morning wit the fixs ill do right now.
I hope you get this soon as I only have time rignt now.



Well I was at work so I didn’t get a chance to reply back. By the time I had read this, it would almost be next morning so it was quite obvious when it would ship. Still, I receive no tracking…so I PM back ‘Did you get it shipped?” I get a tirade~~

No Ryan it didnt.
You didnt reply to my message.
Nor did you even mention the question I asked you just now.
Im not a mind reader, you have to reply to my questions for me to know whats going on.
Thanks,
Matt
So I shouldnt even mention this but feel I should. Ive talked with a few "important people" about the commissions im having problems on, including this one. I didnt mention your name so dont get upset. I simply asked some people advice on what to do.
Every single one said to send you back a new bloodthirster un opened and call it done. I dont want to do that by anymeans but when you dont bother repliing, it seems like possibly the best thing to do. Now if you didnt get the message until this morning? why didnt you reply to my questions then? Instead of simply asking if its shipped?

And in case your wondering, I wont be shipping at all today. Post office is closed 10 minutes ago.

And if your now upset, and want to remind me about a neg or neutral, dont bother. Threats are no longer making me hurry my ass off. Kindness wins this cat over.


Ok. I send back two replies (As the above anger was broken into two PMs);

All that I've asked is that the model be shipped, regardless of status. From what I understood of the message, either A) I was going to contact you and say send it anyways or B) You would fix it and send it the next AM. No, I rarely get on MSN as I work full time, attend school and have two children...thus some weeks I'm on frequently, another perhaps not so much. I've never suggested you wait for me online, nor would I.

Regardless, since it wasn't shipped and you've fixed the model, simply send it Monday morning and shoot me a tracking.
I've never threatened you. This hostility or confrontation you feel is taking place between the two us....it isn't real. All I've asked is that the model be shipped. This really befuddles me, as the only anger passed via emails or messages has been originating at your end. Just ship the model Monday and let me know with a tracking #. Thanks.



NOoooowwww. I've received the model (Two + months after said deal) and it was broken. Many of the dreads were busted off and there are holes drilled in the wing for no reason (I assume earrings were to go there?). I've received a PM since then asking if I received (and hinting for shipping payment). I do not feel obligated to pay for shipping at this point, concerning the state of the model. I'm forced to report a bad trade with this individual, as if I were a customer considering his business...I would want to hear circumstances of this nature. In addition, many of his communications were rude and one essentially sought to scare me by internet defaming (He talked to important people and hadn't mentioned my name yet!). I consider this very immature and rather pathetic.

Severely let down and would warn others to stay away.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543390.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543390.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
Just about every single thing you said was twisted into what you want it to appear. The rest, plain lies.

I wont bother having a debate with you.

For the record, your the ONLY person that hasnt been happy with the work from me out of 30+ people that actually paid in full for their work, including the shipping to get it back to them.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543400.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543400.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services! BT.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543406.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543406.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
redstarone wrote:You sir are a plain liar.

Just about every single thing you said was twisted into what you want it to appear. The rest, plain lies.

I wont bother having a debate with you.

For the record, your the ONLY person that hasnt been happy with the work from me out of 30+ people.


Well, either you were lying then or you are lying now. I'm the only one that hasn't been happy? To quote a few emails after a cursory search;


I was going to anwser all your claims in turn. But I wont as just like the other guy, you feel like youve been the one wronged and nothing I say will make you understand.


On Jan. 20th, your email:

As such, he is a complete donkey-cave. He wanted to bitch about the approval pictures and even called me today. Normally I wouldnt have a problem with someone calling me as I give my number to any client that wants it. What I dont like is him calling and getting NAME REMOVED. Then proceeding to ream her a new donkey-cave over the turn around on his project when there was no due date. I agreeed last week to get it all shipped. He has stopped that each day with new emails making changes here and there while complaining all along.
Ive tried to offer a full refund and buy him a new model. Anything to get rid of this guy but he refuses. So as such ive been wasting almost a complete week alone on his project and having to push back yet more commissions.


On Dec. 22nd, your email;

Ive had an extremly bad day. I keep getting clients that want no deadline on the project then oput of the blue., BAM, "I want my conversion!".


Another around Dec. 22nd, your email;

PS sorry for no update. Ive seriously had 2 clients down my throat for commissions that had no due dates but then all of a sudden, they want their stuff now. So yea, its been fun dealing with them.



So, I must say my experience with you doesn't to be a unique one, per your own communication. As for your assertion I'm lying and you won't bother debating, I have the emails that correspond to my original post. I will also add that I did not post this negative in a hurried fashion and gave it more thought than toy soldiers deserve before airing it on public forums. As I said in my last PM with you, I do not post this in an 'internet hate' fashion and honestly do wish you the best. I simply feel obligated to inform others, whom are like myself searching for a nice commission, about the quality of your services.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543412.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543412.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
GearBoxClock wrote:Well, I don't order conversions anyways, plus the service sounds bad. Post some images of the broken BT.


I am quoting for emphasis! You should post photos.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543415.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543415.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
On November 6th, he sends an email stating his fiancée had miscarried his son. He states he will send the model completed within the next day, along with free bits for the previous months delay. Well, we go to November 14th and I send an email inquiring on how he is doing and receive this back;


Oh I did really? Thats funny. You didnt contact me until november 10th. And for the record, Erin passed on the 4th of January and 2 different times after that, you basically called me a liar.

You also mention dates here and there when it suits you but dont when it shows something on my behalf. A perfect example, the final few dates you give.. What day did you get the package? You know what, never mind. I dont want to argue over your opinions. The above thing is the only thing I want an apology for.

I will say this. Your opinion is exactly that and I have one thats very different. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543419.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543419.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
redstarone wrote:The only thing that truley upsets me is you said this:

On November 6th, he sends an email stating his fiancée had miscarried his son. He states he will send the model completed within the next day, along with free bits for the previous months delay. Well, we go to November 14th and I send an email inquiring on how he is doing and receive this back;


Oh I did really? Thats funny. You didnt contact me until november 10th.


Yeah, really;



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543425.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543425.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
They loved the work, they just had due dates come out of no where. To keep them happy other things get pushed back. Im only one person and some clients seem to NOT understand that fact. So, I havent lied, then or now.

So now, im officially out. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543426.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543426.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
AgeOfEgos wrote:
redstarone wrote:The only thing that truley upsets me is you said this:

On November 6th, he sends an email stating his fiancée had miscarried his son. He states he will send the model completed within the next day, along with free bits for the previous months delay. Well, we go to November 14th and I send an email inquiring on how he is doing and receive this back;


Oh I did really? Thats funny. You didnt contact me until november 10th.


Yeah, really;






DUDE, how about I EMAIL you the damn medical records. Stop saying I lied. Look at the damn date on your email man. It happened on the 4th. 320 am ish to be exact. You expected me to email you that day to tell you? Sorry I had to wait 2 days to get my self together emotionally. Also please note its not even been a month and you still keep basically saying I lied about the death of my son.

THATS MESSED UP. Your taking this to a whole new level man.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543427.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543427.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
redstarone wrote:I was told to mention this about the above clients that were "down my throat".

They loved the work, they just had due dates come out of no where. To keep them happy other things get pushed back. Im only one person and some clients seem to NOT understand that fact. So, I havent lied, then or now.

So now, im officially out.


I'm sorry, but considering my experience I'm not inclined to believe selected clients that may indeed have been lucky with a good experience or unfalsifiable claims that many others were. Especially considering the falsifications you are attempting now (and forcing me to spend time posting pictured rebuttals).

Im only one person and some clients seem to NOT understand that fact.

Why would they? You accepted their commission.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543432.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543432.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
Sincerely,
Peter Strode
Macon, Georgia
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543435.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543435.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
On November 6th, he sends an email stating his fiancée had miscarried his son...(etc. as above)...


Which prompted your response;

Oh I did really?.... (etc. as above)


Which prompted;

"Yeah really;



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543436.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543436.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
fenrir31 wrote:I for one have been quite happy with what Redstarone has done for me with commission work. I had him Scatch build the newer plague Tower and Plague reaper and they are still my favorite models out of all my mini's Matt was totally cool with my wants and needs and very accomodating. I'm sorry that this gentleman is not happy but I will be having Matt do future projects for me and would recommend him to any of my friends, everything he shipped to me arrived to me unscathed and whole.

Sincerely,
Peter Strode
Macon, Georgia


Hey look its already one of the happy clients I just mentioned. BTW thanks Peter, this really means alot to me that you popped in.

That said, im not in anyway arguing that Age wasnt happy. Thats truley his opinion. Thats why im not even demanding the shipping costs. He feels he should pay, fine, it was his model so he should get something if he isnt happy.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543437.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543437.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543438.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543438.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543439.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543439.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
fenrir31 wrote:I for one have been quite happy with what Redstarone has done for me with commission work. I had him Scatch build the newer plague Tower and Plague reaper and they are still my favorite models out of all my mini's Matt was totally cool with my wants and needs and very accomodating. I'm sorry that this gentleman is not happy but I will be having Matt do future projects for me and would recommend him to any of my friends, everything he shipped to me arrived to me unscathed and whole.

Sincerely,
Peter Strode
Macon, Georgia


For the record, I have no reason to doubt you but I did mention this earlier;

"I'm sorry, but considering my experience I'm not inclined to believe selected clients that may indeed have been lucky with a good experience or unfalsifiable claims that many others were."

To which I'm basically stating; Circumstance A being true does not equate to Circumstance B being false. You very well might have been lucky in your transaction, just as I received the opposite end of the spectrum. I did not post this in hopes to prove all of Matt's transactions were horrendous experiences, I'm simply sharing the facts of mine.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543441.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543441.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services! BTW I finally started painting the tower I'll post some pics when it is done.

Pete]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543443.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543443.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
AgeOfEgos wrote:
fenrir31 wrote:I for one have been quite happy with what Redstarone has done for me with commission work. I had him Scatch build the newer plague Tower and Plague reaper and they are still my favorite models out of all my mini's Matt was totally cool with my wants and needs and very accomodating. I'm sorry that this gentleman is not happy but I will be having Matt do future projects for me and would recommend him to any of my friends, everything he shipped to me arrived to me unscathed and whole.

Sincerely,
Peter Strode
Macon, Georgia


For the record, I have no reason to doubt you but I did mention this earlier;

"I'm sorry, but considering my experience I'm not inclined to believe selected clients that may indeed have been lucky with a good experience or unfalsifiable claims that many others were."

To which I'm basically stating; Circumstance A being true does not equate to Circumstance B being false. You very well might have been lucky in your transaction, just as I received the opposite end of the spectrum. I did not post this in hopes to prove all of Matt's transactions were horrendous experiences, I'm simply sharing the facts of mine.



NP, I understand where you are coming from and everyone is entitled to theirs, but I feel things happen... sometimes good and sometimes bad mine just happened to be good and will definately continue to work with Matt.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543446.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543446.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
redstarone wrote:

Hey look its already one of the happy clients I just mentioned. BTW thanks Peter, this really means alot to me that you popped in.

That said, im not in anyway arguing that Age wasnt happy. Thats truley his opinion. Thats why im not even demanding the shipping costs. He feels he should pay, fine, it was his model so he should get something if he isnt happy.


Here's the thing Matt. I probably wouldn't have posted much of anything, as it makes me feel rather silly having an argument over toy soldiers via forums, provided you had been consistently courteous and non threatening. Specifically, I would say this was the tipping point;

So I shouldnt even mention this but feel I should. Ive talked with a few "important people" about the commissions im having problems on, including this one. I didnt mention your name so dont get upset. I simply asked some people advice on what to do.
Every single one said to send you back a new bloodthirster un opened and call it done. I dont want to do that by anymeans but when you dont bother repliing, it seems like possibly the best thing to do. Now if you didnt get the message until this morning? why didnt you reply to my questions then? Instead of simply asking if its shipped?

And in case your wondering, I wont be shipping at all today. Post office is closed 10 minutes ago.

And if your now upset, and want to remind me about a neg or neutral, dont bother. Threats are no longer making me hurry my ass off. Kindness wins this cat over.


I never threatened you, yet received much anger in return. (As to the above date, I typo'd Nov-Jan but the picture is clear). Regardless, I've posted the facts concerning the commission and any further argument is likely to descend into ad hominems. Those whom read the thread can judge it based on the mannerisms of those involved and information therein.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543448.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543448.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services! If i may , from middle person point of view.

If anyone was at fault, its redstarone over AOE but that strictly if one is to blame. But who can ever predict the unfortunate event that happend to redstarone , we simply cant.

But the way i see it is, redstarone took too many commissions at the same time, and due to the unfortunate incident, it just made everything even worse.

The question we are really looking at is. Would redstarone would have completed his commission on time if the bad incident hasnt occured. And this question is probably the thing both sides cant agree on.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543454.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543454.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
LunaHound wrote:
If i may , from middle person point of view.

If anyone was at fault, its redstarone over AOE but that strictly if one is to blame. But who can ever predict the unfortunate event that happend to redstarone , we simply cant.

But the way i see it is, redstarone took too many commissions at the same time, and due to the unfortunate incident, it just made everything even worse.

The question we are really looking at is. Would redstarone would have completed his commission on time if the bad incident hasnt occured. And this question is probably the thing both sides cant agree on.



VERY excellent way to sum it all up. I agree 100% with everything you just said. I did indeed take on to many commissions based on the fact not one had a due date. That was COMPLETELY my fault. Ive since changed how I run everything.

Again, thanks for summing it up like a Pro. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543458.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543458.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
LunaHound wrote:
If i may , from middle person point of view.

If anyone was at fault, its redstarone over AOE but that strictly if one is to blame. But who can ever predict the unfortunate event that happend to redstarone , we simply cant.

But the way i see it is, redstarone took too many commissions at the same time, and due to the unfortunate incident, it just made everything even worse.

The question we are really looking at is. Would redstarone would have completed his commission on time if the bad incident hasnt occured. And this question is probably the thing both sides cant agree on.



Well, you must also consider before the incident, it had already been a month full of broken promises. In addition, during this time that those deadlines promised came and went;

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151159&page=37

as well as this;

http://www.conversioncorner.com/

Note the updates on each link from the dates 11/14/08---12/29/08. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543463.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543463.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
redstarone wrote:

VERY excellent way to sum it all up. I agree 100% with everything you just said. I did indeed take on to many commissions based on the fact not one had a due date. That was COMPLETELY my fault. Ive since changed how I run everything.

Again, thanks for summing it up like a Pro.


I have run into similar situation myself, i guess i sort of understand how both side feels.

I know redstarone didnt intend to delay it on purpose ( by that much atleast )

and both sides have had their share of grief, one more then the other.

Could AgeOfEgo just let this incident slide by ? I feel if not too much was lost other then the time, dont pursue this
any further and give the guy some time to clear his emotions.

Maybe when both sides have some time to think it through, you guys can do the commission again ( I really really recommend this)
give both sides another chance to start over.

Then you both win. No bad feed backs, no wars. Everyone will be friends!

*edit.

on the side note, my room now stink of primer :_: was going to paint on the parts i missed , but just couldnt stand the smell... wonder how long before
the sprayed killakans stop smelling.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543466.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543466.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
I don't know how much the OP edited your e-mails, but I wasn't even a third through reading his post when I reached a point where if I were the client, I would have asked for my model back plus a full refund.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543497.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543497.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
DaRealJDB wrote:redstarone I recommend you don't let your clients in on your personal life; that's very unprofessional.

I don't know how much the OP edited your e-mails, but I wasn't even a third through reading his post when I reached a point where if I were the client, I would have asked for my model back plus a full refund.


Full refund? He never paid. Anything.

For the record, I would have LOVED it for him to asked for it back instead of having me work on something to not get paid. If I was a d**k I would have done just that, mailed it without the work since he, as stated above, paid nothing.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543506.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543506.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
redstarone wrote:
DaRealJDB wrote:redstarone I recommend you don't let your clients in on your personal life; that's very unprofessional.

I don't know how much the OP edited your e-mails, but I wasn't even a third through reading his post when I reached a point where if I were the client, I would have asked for my model back plus a full refund.


Full refund? He never paid. Anything.

For the record, I would have LOVED it for him to asked for it back instead of having me work on something to not get paid. If I was a d**k I would have done just that, mailed it without the work since he, as stated above, paid nothing.


What was the $ deal that you worked out beforehand?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543513.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543513.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
redstarone wrote:
DaRealJDB wrote:redstarone I recommend you don't let your clients in on your personal life; that's very unprofessional.

I don't know how much the OP edited your e-mails, but I wasn't even a third through reading his post when I reached a point where if I were the client, I would have asked for my model back plus a full refund.


Full refund? He never paid. Anything.

For the record, I would have LOVED it for him to asked for it back instead of having me work on something to not get paid. If I was a d**k I would have done just that, mailed it without the work since he, as stated above, paid nothing.


Per my emails, you offered the commission for free in mid-late December (Which was a month after you received the model), to which I promptly refused (This was in my original post). You were never under the impression the commission was free, it was only offered from your end and refuted on mine. You have stated this yourself per PM;

"Sorry I've been such a bitch. That's true, you've never asked for the commission free"


On Jan. 20th, I sent an email stating

At this point, as it's been two+ months now…I have yet to see any update pictures. I'm prepared to receive the model in whatever condition, just please ship.


This prompted a rather unlettered and lengthy tirade in your email response. I was simply asking for my model back.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543516.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543516.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
DaRealJDB wrote:
redstarone wrote:
DaRealJDB wrote:redstarone I recommend you don't let your clients in on your personal life; that's very unprofessional.

I don't know how much the OP edited your e-mails, but I wasn't even a third through reading his post when I reached a point where if I were the client, I would have asked for my model back plus a full refund.


Full refund? He never paid. Anything.

For the record, I would have LOVED it for him to asked for it back instead of having me work on something to not get paid. If I was a d**k I would have done just that, mailed it without the work since he, as stated above, paid nothing.


What was the $ deal that you worked out beforehand?


I cant remember the exact end total, around 6 hours of work was quoted so 60 bucks. He didnt have to pay until it was approved for shipping. In the end, I took forever to get pictures for approval and he wanted it shipped. So, like I said, in the end, he paid nothing, not even shipping back to him as he refuses to pay it (see the last sentance in his first post). I wont argue over the shipping money as its such a small amount. I only bring it up because seriously, he wasnt ripped off. I had life problems that FORCED a pile up of commissions. I didnt intentionally mean to take so long. Nor did I CHOOSE to have the personal family problems.

I even gave my phone number for Age to call me if he wanted to. He chose not to.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543521.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543521.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
AgeOfEgos wrote:
redstarone wrote:
DaRealJDB wrote:redstarone I recommend you don't let your clients in on your personal life; that's very unprofessional.

I don't know how much the OP edited your e-mails, but I wasn't even a third through reading his post when I reached a point where if I were the client, I would have asked for my model back plus a full refund.


Full refund? He never paid. Anything.

For the record, I would have LOVED it for him to asked for it back instead of having me work on something to not get paid. If I was a d**k I would have done just that, mailed it without the work since he, as stated above, paid nothing.


Per my emails, you offered the commission for free in mid-late December (Which was a month after you received the model), to which I promptly refused (This was in my original post). You were never under the impression the commission was free, it was only offered from your end and refuted on mine. You have stated this yourself per PM;

"Sorry I've been such a bitch. That's true, you've never asked for the commission free"


On Jan. 20th, I sent an email stating

At this point, as it's been two+ months now…I have yet to see any update pictures. I'm prepared to receive the model in whatever condition, just please ship.


This prompted a rather unlettered and lengthy tirade in your email response. I was simply asking for my model back.


I hate to do this but..

What you still fail to grasp is the fact ive had more important matters then models during the month of dec. and now jan. I dropped the costs because I KNOW i was going beyond what is acceptable.

So In the end, you paid nothing. Stop trying to act like it was because you were nice about it. You sent me a PM on the 21st I think saying you would be paying for the shipping and half anyways. You havent done it and have said because of how you were let down, you wont. What I fail to understand is how you think you have the right to not pay for shipping. You made me pay for insurance, go collect it and pay me my shipping money or simply stop acting like you paid me or acting like you were the nice guy by offering to pay.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543523.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543523.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services! If he atleast paid the s&h to send it back to you , while you ddint end up paying him anything, that should be the end of this. Just forgive and forget? Not to mention all the other bad stuff that happend to his family.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543528.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543528.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
redstarone wrote:

I hate to do this but..

What you still fail to grasp is the fact ive had more important matters then models during the month of dec. and now jan. I dropped the costs because I KNOW i was going beyond what is acceptable.

So In the end, you paid nothing. Stop trying to act like it was because you were nice about it. You sent me a PM on the 21st I think saying you would be paying for the shipping and half anyways. You havent done it and have said because of how you were let down, you wont. What I fail to understand is how you think you have the right to not pay for shipping. You made me pay for insurance, go collect it and pay me my shipping money or simply stop acting like you paid me or acting like you were the nice guy by offering to pay.



To be frank, I did not offer to pay because I'm a nice guy (although I am). I offered to pay, per my email response;

Also, I might add that while the free conversion certainly was an apt offer in terms of customer satisfaction, keep in mind I stated I would take nothing free but send half of the conversion price when it arrived regardless of tardiness. I did this precisely to avoid the following statement;


i then told you its free of charge. I mean 2 months is one thing, but for a commission, others ahead of you that got skipped, and the fact you arent paying anything.. think about it. If I would have done it in the order of commissions, you would still be waiting.

I was quite afraid this might happen and didn't want the free price…to further add to the tardiness of the commission. To explain further, while I am not good with the greenstuff, I can complete projects in a lengthy time period thus part of the allure of paid commissions is time and effort saved.




I didn't want the free commission to be used to justify whatever date you decided to send the model (Which you are now attempting to do). I never asked for the commission for free and refused it when offered in mid Dec. (A month after you received the model).

I explained why I refuse to pay for shipping. It was poorly packed/shipped.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543529.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543529.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
I've discussed starting a few conversions with 'redstarone'/Conversion Corner, and so far, everything has been good, courteous and smooth.

We're still in the planning stages, but still, everything is OK to date.

It appears as if you two might have to agree to disagree?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543530.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543530.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services! that should be the end of it. You wasted your time, he wasted his money, if anything this is now neutral.

What else do you want him to do? I mean ok you dont feel bad about his family, or you dont believe, i dont know.

But why do you insist on ruining his reputation when he atleast did his part of paying to ship the item back to you?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543535.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543535.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
LunaHound wrote:AOE , unless there is some sort of personal vendetta in this,
that should be the end of it. You wasted your time, he wasted his money, if anything this is now neutral.

What else do you want him to do? I mean ok you dont feel bad about his family, or you dont believe, i dont know.

But why do you insist on ruining his reputation when he atleast did his part of paying to ship the item back to you?


He doesnt believe me. If he did he would feel bad if he is indeed a so called nice guy as he puts it.


Big red flag, the commission is now free. This may seem like customer tact and surely his trail of broken promises warrant a discount…but I’m afraid this will lay the foundation for further delays (It’s free dude!). So I email back and assure him I will pay for at least half the commission and only accept a small cut due to tardiness. Cool he says…and on we go to a disaster. He emails stating that his fiancée had been rushed to the hospital on November 2nd, due to a reaction that she had to medication. She is in the early stages of the 2nd trimester and might miscarry. As a nurse, hey I completely understand and assure him of that. Now keep in mind, I’m really an easy going guy that understands these situations. However, his conversion website had been updated on 12/14, 12/26, 12/28, 12/29 with other commission projects…yet I still received no model or pictures. What am I to say to this situation however? Even if it happened 3 days after he promised to ship? Of course, I can’t…as real life trumps models in every fashion even if this terrible disaster happened after a trail of broken promises. So…I once again assure him no problem and that I wished his family the best. No requests for updates, just well wishes.


Right here he clearly says why he is upset.
1) I put him on the back burner as I was updating the site with other commissions.
Reason why: Those were commissions taken BEFORE HIS. Ive been open since august. He came around in november. Those were things from before him clearly. It was my huge mistake to even start on his work before finishing the other ones without due dates. A mistake that wont ever happen again.

i then told you its free of charge. I mean 2 months is one thing, but for a commission, others ahead of you that got skipped, and the fact you arent paying anything.. think about it. If I would have done it in the order of commissions, you would still be waiting.


When I said this I was refering to the fact I started on his model as soon as I got it, putting OTHER people on the back burner. When I then had to go back to other peoples stuff, thats when he got upset and ASSUMED I was blowing him off when in reality, he was waiting in order as the commission came in. It wasnt some kind of ploy to take an the extra time until it was shipped. It was me being A NICE GUY to not charge when if I was in his shoes, wouldnt want to pay and as another poster said, would simply want a refund. I give him the only thing I could, the completed model and asked for nothing in return even when he kept offering to pay.

Now I fully admit I made several mistakes. Again which is why I offered to do it free of charge. I was also having MAJOR real life problems and problems at the 9-5. His model was COMPLETED on or around the end of december. He knows this as I told him in a message that I finished trimming the axe head and its now done. Then Sarah lost our child. That wasnt even 3 1/2 weeks ago.

So on the 20th he asks where is stuff is. I DID get upset and made another mistake by doing it. His stuff was shipped on monday of this week. He recieved it thursday and then waited until this post to even tell me about how it was damaged and how he wasnt happy with the work and all the other things in his first post. I had emailed him everyday asking for an update. Now I see he was busy.

All in all, this seems to me to indeed be a personal vendetta against me because he clearly thinks I pushed him back and back and did others work first. If that really was happening, I would understand why he could get upset about it. But thats not even close to what happened. If its not a vendetta, why isnt the tital of the thread, "bade trade - deal with caution" or something like that. Not simply, avoid my services. But like ive said, im fine with whatever he things is true. The only thing that really upset me has been cleared up, and thats the date my son died. (although he once again put november instead of the proper month..)

Just wait for Rick to pop in and say how long he has waited as he understand real life family problems trump models any day of the week. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543604.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543604.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services! at this point this all seems really petty and ridiculous...
AOE you can hold your grudge against conversion corner and wasted time and redstar one can stay pissed about having to do the work and shipping for free...
with any more negative response, i can see a more justified protest to conversion corners work...

but really, over all the misleadings and lies and date changes and excuses yadda yadda yadda...
what you are arguing over is a big metal toy soldier.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543619.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543619.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543625.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543625.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
1) What was the agreement before and on the date AOE send out the miniature? Was it understood as a free commission the moment it was mailed?

2) During all this, has the commission taker ever make threats to not return the miniature if he is not paid?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543632.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543632.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services! but, i also went into this without a firm deadline.
i feel like fenrir31 does about the issue. i've been nothing but satisfied
with Matt's work.
after what AoE has said i feel he is being petty about "Toys". mainly
for the fact he's paid nothing. he's not satisfied, but he's also is out
nothing but his time and some gray hairs. not to mention he's got a
vehicle in BT he can express his experience. this feels over the top
to me.
and lastly, as a father of three, if i had anything happen to any of my
children, i don't think i'd really care about opinions and deadlines. i'd be
suprised if i could function at all. "Toys" would definately be somewhere
on a far back burner.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543634.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543634.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
LunaHound wrote:One last thing i want to clarify if i may.

1) What was the agreement before and on the date AOE send out the miniature? Was it understood as a free commission the moment it was mailed?

2) During all this, has the commission taker ever make threats to not return the miniature if he is not paid?



Myabe you should read the whole post. Im not even in anyway involved in this, but from reading the starting post, i can already answer those questions. Give it a read.

What i dont get from redstarone is, after that tragic event happend,(im sorry about that) why were there updates of other models and not his? i couldve misread, but thats the question the first popped up in my head while reading.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543639.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543639.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
LunaHound wrote:One last thing i want to clarify if i may.

1) What was the agreement before and on the date AOE send out the miniature? Was it understood as a free commission the moment it was mailed?

2) During all this, has the commission taker ever make threats to not return the miniature if he is not paid?


1) IT was agreed that he would pay 60 dollars for 6 hours of work at the end of the project before it was sent. I failed to proved the pics so sent anyways. The pictures that were posted that night and shown to him, he said "fantastic". I do have that message saved along with every other one. But because it took longer then I thought, I offered to do it free. Also note that at the start there was no deadline at all. He then later said he had a tourney coming up and could I get it done by then. I said yes and after real life probs failed to reach it.

It was understood it was free from about half way in. Maybe 6 weeks ago. WHILE Sarah was in and out of the hospital.

2) I had got opinions from tusted sources to me, i.e. friends, that I should send him a new model, like i recieved it and simply ship that back. I decided against it as thats kinda fishy. So instead I sent the completed model NOT expecting money except for shipping since he wanted insurance on it. Although it should be pointed out he said MANY times that he would pay half anyways. Which I never expected he would.


alarmingrick wrote:yes, i've had to wait for my stuff. i've been pushed back for others.
but, i also went into this without a firm deadline.
i feel like fenrir31 does about the issue. i've been nothing but satisfied
with Matt's work.
after what AoE has said i feel he is being petty about "Toys". mainly
for the fact he's paid nothing. he's not satisfied, but he's also is out
nothing but his time and some gray hairs. not to mention he's got a
vehicle in BT he can express his experience. this feels over the top
to me.
and lastly, as a father of three, if i had anything happen to any of my
children, i don't think i'd really care about opinions and deadlines. i'd be
suprised if i could function at all. "Toys" would definately be somewhere
on a far back burner.


I feel if anyone should be mad at me its Rick. Pretty much the first real client and watched many projects drop before his. As such, ill work for the man till the end of time. All because he UNDERSTANDS real life family problems and doesnt seem to just ignore the major fact on why things arent shipped super fast.

Plus no where on my site does it say, super fast turn around..

enmitee wrote:

Myabe you should read the whole post. Im not even in anyway involved in this, but from reading the starting post, i can already answer those questions. Give it a read.

What i dont get from redstarone is, after that tragic event happend,(im sorry about that) why were there updates of other models and not his? i couldve misread, but thats the question the first popped up in my head while reading.


Because those were people freaking out and not caring at all about my problems that had to be completed as they came BEFORE Age's stuff. I will point out there was no due date. A major problem in how I used to run things. Once they came up with a due date, i had no choice but to finish thier work first. Otherwise they would be made about me working on his stuff.

Now if your referring to the most recent update on my site... look closely. Its a lord of battle made as a memorial piece for my passed son. Its not something im doing for someone nor am I making any money off if it.

Also, im horrible about updating the site in order of how commissions are recieved or even posted.

The problem again was I started his work to soon and because of that he expected it ASAP. I gave dates that I would try to ship on but combined with a 9-5, Sarah being sick, things got pushed back. Again, why I didnt expect to get paid and offered to do just that.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543657.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543657.page GMT Re:Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
warpcrafter wrote:This is all one more reason why I'll stay happy with my own modeling, painting and conversions. It may not be anywhere near golden daemon quality, but at least if there are problems, I have nobody but myself (and occasionally my cats) to blame.

Amen to this. Trust only in yourself.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543667.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543667.page GMT Conversion Corner AKA Redstarone: Bad Trade, Avoid services!
I have said before, that Dakka is not a court of appeal for the Internet model soldier community.

Both sides have had a good chance to put their cases and readers can make up their own minds based on what has been presented.

Since this deal was arranged through Bartertown, that is the best place to continue the argument if desired.

In my personal opinion, it would be best for both parties to drop it. I am sorry for the trouble and bad feelings that have been raised. I do not believe they will be resolved by continuing.

I will now lock the thread since it cannot go anywhere useful.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543718.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/228868/543718.page GMT