http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net HQ be in a full 10man dire avengers squad with an exarch with the power weapon & shimmer shield (purely because it is useful, if asurmen's already got bladestorm & defend.)

Also, assume they are in a waveserpent.

The unit would cost just over 500pts. Covers your hq & one troop slot in your FoC which is a good & bad thing. Mostly good.. The serpent has a shuriken cannon & EML.

The unit is fearless. Every model has a 4+/5++ in close combat, asurmans got 3 wounds, eternal warrior & a 2+/4++. Defend & blade storm powers. A good amount of shooty & the re-roll to miss str 4 dire sword is respectable.

Very costly. You could have two dual-catapult 10man avengers in cheap serpents for the same points, roughly.

So to warrant that high point cost, I ask you all: Will the phoeonix lord make his points back via his improvements to the dire avengers & leathality in CC?? This would be the best unit to use the bladestorm + charge manouver. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579567.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579567.page GMT
when you start shooting you'll get 22shots + WS (or if you blade storm 32) ...

Where this unit falls down is it cost far too much for what it does. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579598.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579598.page GMT CC? Taking into account things like Asurmens eternal warrior, 3wounds & invunerable, defend, 2 power weapons (one str 3 yes & the other an ID'able str 4 wep). Ws4 I5.

I guess its a case of they can do these things & score. Elite choices probably can do thier job as-well/better for less points. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579756.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579756.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579804.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579804.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579842.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579842.page GMT
They'd eat 30 boys for breakfast. Problem is, thier unit costs about 230, this costs lots more! The 11man unit is 380pts. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579865.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/579865.page GMT
A more accurate test would be to see the maths of 10 avengers with/without the phoenix lord bladestorming and then charging 30 boys. if they can achieve that, you can consider it somewhat effective.

On another note: never run dire avengers without a farseer. even if you are taking asurmen, the baldestorm+doom is too good to pass up. Also, doom+fortune+defend and shimmershield is a powerful combo for making avengers last in CC. if you are also packing a decent CC character in that unit, then fortune+doom makes the unit a winner (even if it is expensive.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/580060.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/580060.page GMT DA's. Although while the doom+bladestorm combo is good there are other worthy uses of a farseer & the Asurmen & avengers tagteam arent relient on a farseer to make them effective. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/580071.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/580071.page GMT
Edit: Then again, are you really worse in hand to hand? I'm not certain that you are. I don't have the stats for Ashurman handy but I'm curious to see how many wounds you could expect from him in hand to hand against both MEQ's and orcs. Then you can compare that to what you would get out of 10 dire avengers...it might not be as different as you might think.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/580105.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/580105.page GMT str 4 power weapon attacks that re-roll to miss. He'll be hitting on 3's vs virtually anything so 3-5 hits. 4's to wound w/ no save cept invunerables & 6's kill the model outright. Doesnt mention instant death specifically so thats always a bonous. 2 wounds. no saves. possibly one crazy-death.

10 dire avengers get 20ish attacks on charge, hitting on 4's vs meq, 10 hits. str 3, 3 wound. 1.5 save. 1.5 wounds (ish). One exarch gets an extra attack & theres a small chance of his higher WS hitting on 3's wounding with str 3 still, allowing no save. 10 da's dont really come out trumps. Simply more bodies, more shooty & more mobile.

The sqaud with asurmen is fearless & you get to have the diresword goodness along with dual cats, shimmer shield (2nd exarch) and both skills. Mainly fearless is the bonous here. Your spending 180pt for his awesomeness. Other pheonix lords are more awesome in H2H but dont have two key things 1) Invunerable and 2) lots and lots of synergy with a worthy sqaud making them cost less.

Other squads simply dont need/would use thier phoenix lord as effectively. Cept Kanrandras 2nd most expensive but doesnt count as a scoring unit. Jain has an assault weapon when she should always make use of the banshees fleet. Mr.Ras got an assault weapon with a heavy-weapon sqaud. Baharroth (lol). Fuegan is tough and fighty when really fire dragoons should always be shooting with the weapons theyve got. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/580212.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/580212.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/580326.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/231059/580326.page GMT