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		<title><![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Monolith - Living Metal?"]]></title>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I am codex-less where it involves Necrons.  Can anyone site the living metal rule for me so that I can understand what my boyz can and can not do to a monolith?  I understand that it restricts what you can pile on top of your armor penetration rules, but I'm hoping there is some clause in there that says, "...but Carnuss can still effect them if he does ____!" or something to that effect.  Surely that's in the rule somewhere.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:10:48]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Carnuss]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well, the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> says  that Power Fists still double the model's strength for attacking Monoliths. That's your best bet right there. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:31:56]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Brian P]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ - ****ing double post.  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:48:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Carnuss]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Hmm...  It negates bonuses to Strength though, from what I gather from the Monolith discussion in the Tactics forum.  So the only guy with fist out there that has any chance of destroying it (not just its anti-infantry guns) is a warboss.  That seems to be pretty lite as far as options.  Surely they didn't leave orks with only their <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(1);'>2D6</span> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(123);'>STR</span> weapons like Zzap Guns and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(164);'>SAGs</span> as their only option for artillery...  Did they?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:48:53]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Carnuss]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Orks got four reliable thinks to get a 'lith with.<br /> Warbosses with Power Klaws, Deffdreads, Killa Kans and Tankbustas with Tankhammers. Shooting at them is rather wasteful <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(72);'>IMO</span>.<br /> Deffrollas works great too if you allow that sort of thing.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:48:21]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Webbe]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I didn't think about the close vehicle options.  I don't own a dread, kan, or squad of tankbustas, but that is easily remedied.  I'll definitely remember to keep that Battlewagon out there as an option, as I completely forgot about my <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>D6</span> S10 hits off of that guy.  Now I feel like a grot for not thinking about those options.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:52:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Carnuss]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Webbe wrote:</cite>Warbosses with Power Klaws, Deffdreads, Killa Kans and Tankbustas with Tankhammers. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(267);'>QFT</span> That's about it.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:54:59]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Hand of Dume]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Killing off 75% of the "necrons" on the table also takes out the monolith.  Generaly the better option really.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:24:08]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Phoenix]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ All the Living Metal Rule is Cap any Penetration Dice to 1d6 (so chainfists and Melta dont work) and keeps its <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(9);'>AV</span> at 14 Against Lance Weapons.<br /> <br /> Power Fists doubling strength, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(571);'>DCCW</span>, Sismic Hammers +1 to Damage, Tank Hunters et al all still work.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:27:23]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Waaaaaaagh!]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ against necrons just make warriors the priority, mono's dont do that much damage, they can either be ignored or hidden from while working on killing off 75%]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:34:58]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ JD21290]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I have been wondering this for some time, and I play Necrons, so its pretty important to me to get it right.<br /> <br /> What justification do you have that:<br /> <br /> "Power Fists doubling strength, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(571);'>DCCW</span>, Sismic Hammers +1 to Damage, Tank Hunters et al all still work."<br /> <br /> Given the Power Fist and equivalents is FAQed and not debatable, we won't discuss those.  Yes they work normally.<br /> <br /> But Tank Hunters is a fairly common occurance, as lots of races have options to take Tank Hunter upgrades.  And The Necron Dex throws a pretty powerful catch-all out, the 'no matter what' clause.  So how is it that you can figure Tank Hunters still works against Living Metal?<br /> <br /> The older Necron <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> actually rules that Tank Hunters DOES NOT work.  Very specifically.  I know that we aren't on the old <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> anymore, but in my opinion if the ruling hasn't been overturned, it should still be valid, at least it gives an indication that <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> intended it a certain way once-upon-a-time.<br /> <br /> I'm sure this is a hot topic, so would be grateful if anyone had links to other posts regarding this issue.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 26 Feb 2009 21:14:58]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ubersnax]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'm not sure how hot a topic it is, but there are certainly other discussions out there.  There is this one from the Tactics forum that talks about it and prompted me to ask my question here.  You'll note that in that thread, they state that Furious Charge's +1 strength doesn't apply, which would seem to disagree with this thread given that Furious Charge, Tank Hunter, and all of that all sort of fall in the same boat.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/230210.page" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/230210.page</a>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:33:58]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Carnuss]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>ubersnax wrote:</cite>I have been wondering this for some time, and I play Necrons, so its pretty important to me to get it right.<br /> <br /> What justification do you have that:<br /> <br /> "Power Fists doubling strength, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(571);'>DCCW</span>, Sismic Hammers +1 to Damage, Tank Hunters et al all still work."<br /> </div></blockquote>It's called the rules. Does Living Metal Say they dont work? No? So they do.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:13:08]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Waaaaaaagh!]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <font color='red'></font>Actually it does say they don't work.<br /> <br /> "In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armor penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>d6</span> no matter what."<br /> <br /> I don't see anywehre where it says, roll a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>d6</span>, add unaugmented strength, then add a whole bunch extra points onto that total depending on special rules.  It says all the special rules don't work.<br /> Tank Hunters says you add +1 to your armor penetration roll, Living Metal says you don't get that bonus.  I was going to attach the old <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span>, but not sure how <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> would like that... so I'll quote a little piece of it intead:<br /> <br /> "...Don't count any bonus penetration of ANY sort against a Monolith.  So no bonuses for extra Talos attacks, tank-hunter veteran skills, etc...  The only exception is the Vindicare Assassin's Tank-Hunter round.  As this shell is not bonus penetration as such, it will work.  Note that you still roll <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(1);'>2d6</span> and pick the highest when attacking the Monolith with Ordinance weapons."<br /> <br /> Like I said in my previous post, this is the older <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span>, but the new <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> specifically permits Powerfists/claws and Thunderhammers for doubling strength, but doesn't mention reversing any of the other Living Metal rules, so I believe the old ruling is still correct.<br /> <br /> Please refrain from being rude, as no one has been rude to you.  I like to think that as a gaming community we can all be a little more mature than that.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:14:02]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ubersnax]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ The old rulings no longer apply, they are replaced by the new <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span>. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:31:27]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mikhaila]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ That's true, but the new <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> doesn't say yes to Tank Hunters, the Codex seems to disallow it with a wide variety of interpretations, and the old <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> specifically says no to tank hunters.  I can't see how someone would justify being able to use Tank Hunters against a Monolith, and if they can, I'd like to hear them out.  In my mind 'no matter what' means you don't get bonuses.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:35:50]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ubersnax]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>ubersnax wrote:</cite><font color='red'></font>Actually it does say they don't work.<br /> <br /> "In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armor penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>d6</span> no matter what."<br /> <br /> I don't see anywehre where it says, roll a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>d6</span>, add unaugmented strength, then add a whole bunch extra points onto that total depending on special rules.  It says all the special rules don't work.<br /> Tank Hunters says you add +1 to your armor penetration roll, Living Metal says you don't get that bonus.  I was going to attach the old <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span>, but not sure how <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> would like that... so I'll quote a little piece of it intead:<br /> <br /> "...Don't count any bonus penetration of ANY sort against a Monolith.  So no bonuses for extra Talos attacks, tank-hunter veteran skills, etc...  The only exception is the Vindicare Assassin's Tank-Hunter round.  As this shell is not bonus penetration as such, it will work.  Note that you still roll <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(1);'>2d6</span> and pick the highest when attacking the Monolith with Ordinance weapons."<br /> <br /> Like I said in my previous post, this is the older <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span>, but the new <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> specifically permits Powerfists/claws and Thunderhammers for doubling strength, but doesn't mention reversing any of the other Living Metal rules, so I believe the old ruling is still correct.<br /> <br /> Please refrain from being rude, as no one has been rude to you.  I like to think that as a gaming community we can all be a little more mature than that.</div></blockquote><br /> As Has been said, the Old <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> has no Bearing on the Current State of the rules. The way you express the rule "In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armour penetration using its augmented strength and a single <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>d6</span> no matter what." I have no idea where you got that from. Was that from a Old <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span>? <br /> <br /> Looking at the <a href="http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4526/livingmetal.jpg" target="_new" rel="nofollow">actual rule as written in the codex</a>, the Rule <b>specifically </b>mentions "Attacks which count the targets Armour Value as being less than it really is" and "weapons that get additional Armour Penetration dice" as the only things Living Metal Affects. Nowhere does it mention modifiers to the Armour Penetration roll (<i>ala </i> tank hunters) or modifiers to the damage table (AP1 or Seismic Hammers) nor does it mention anything about using unmodified strength at all.<br /> <br /> From that, I deduce that nothing but what is specifically mentioned (Lance and Extra <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>D6</span>) is affected by Living Metal.<br /> <br /> My Apologies if I came across as rude. I just tend to get a bit worked up when i shouldn't  <img src="/s/i/a/934fe4f0c85983a716e6680a72065e99.gif" border="0"> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 27 Feb 2009 05:17:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Waaaaaaagh!]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ The first thing I quoted:<br /> <br /> "In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armor penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(24);'>d6</span> no matter what."<br /> <br /> This is the last line from Living Metal in the most recent Necron Codex (the second of 2 printings, the first printing had slightly different Living Metal rules, but the second printing takes precedence, if you look on the first page with all the copyright jargon near the bottom it should say Second Printing).  In my opinion this is enough to justify nothing getting any bonuses at all to Armor Penetration.<br /> <br /> ----Skip Train of Thoughts a bit----<br /> <br /> I just brought up the 4.0.1 Necron <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> as a clue to <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> previous rulings, maybe to suggest the type of things they had in mind for the Living Metal.  I agree maybe that has changed, but the current <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> doesn't reverse the ruling on anything but Powerfist/claws/thunder hammers.  I don't expect anyone to abide by old <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> rulings, but if at one time <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> ruled Tank Hunters = no bonus, why would they change.<br /> <br /> ----Skip Back----<br /> <br /> Anyway, I always thought the codex ruling is pretty clear (second printing clearing up a few things from the first printing).  If you do have the first printing I can quote the whole Living Metal rule, but I don't know if that's allowed on a forum...<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:00:52]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ubersnax]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well, gee, Way to  <img src="/s/i/a/7ae18ba11c7ba79f6898e876a4b8ba4a.gif" border="0"> go <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span>.<br /> <br /> I have the 1st printing. I wish they Would say in the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span> exactly what that they went and Changed  for the Second Printing <img src="/s/i/a/5c217f7a079a81c85feb45c988babf50.gif" border="0">]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:08:30]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Waaaaaaagh!]]></author>
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				<title>Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well the second Printing incorporated all the errata from the Chapter Approved book ( I forget which one), which was in print at the time of the second pirinting of the Necron Codex. I'm sure that <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> now assumes that all 'new' Necron players will end up with the second printing. <br /> <br />  In this, as well as Army selection, and rules interperetation, they (<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span>) have always had a blind spot when it comes to what people will ACTUALLY do, as opposed to what <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> THINKS they should do. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:05:21]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Lordhat]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Monolith - Living Metal?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Agreed, from here on out, everytime this debate comes up in a game I will be mailing <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> someones ring finger.  I urge everyone else to do the same, unless they are playing me, that's 2 fingers, which could be construed as threatening somehow, I'm sure.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:23:38]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ubersnax]]></author>
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