<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Second Try at a competative Daemons list"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Second Try at a competative Daemons list HQ:
Fate Weaver 333pt

Herald of Khone 120pt
+1str, riding a Juggy

Herald of Khone 120pt
+1str, riding a Juggy

Elites:
Squad 1 200pt
Bloodcrusher w/ Icon
Bloodcrusher w/ Instrument
Bloodcrusher w/ rending
Bloodcrusher

Squad 2 200pt
Bloodcrusher w/ Icon
Bloodcrusher w/ Instrument
Bloodcrusher w/ rending
Bloodcrusher

3 Flamers 105pt


Troops:
12 Plague Bearers 165pt
12 Plague Bearers 165pt
5 Horrors 100pt
Bolt, changling
5 Horrors 95pt
Bolt
5 Horrors 95pt
Bolt

Heavy

Soul Grinder 135pt
Soul Grinder 135pt

Total: 1998

The basic Idea is to have the heralds join the Bloodcrushers and abuse the complex units with multiple wounds rule. Fateweaver was added to make the unit tougher, and to add a bit of flare

Any suggestions?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594084.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594084.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594206.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594206.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594213.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594213.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list DPs instead of SGs IMO. Oh, in 2000 pts you're only playing 2 vehicles when most armies are mechanized and I've prepared for this by taking heavy weapons up the buttox? Okay, free kills.

Other than that, I think using the multiple wounds thing is something I never thought of with bloodcrushers, good idea.

If you use Dps, just give them something like Armor, Unholy strength or MoN, and daemonic gaze. with their rediculous BS5, S5 AP3 can be real good to just soften up squads.

If you feel like you've got too much shooting and need something HtH to help... DP w/ Armor and Unholy Strength is 130 pts. and from there you can just make them more versatile.

I've found playing SGs are overrated because at bare minimum they are just dreads that sacrifice their free weapons for AV13 and cost more points. Giving them weapons is rarely ever used anyways because it costs so much anyways. DPs can take more than one stray lascannon shot and have much more versitality, which is very much valued in Daemons as every unit is forced at being one thing. DPs can be good shooters, tank hunters, Crowd control, and all still pretty tough to kill.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594230.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594230.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594283.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594283.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594308.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594308.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list
That sounds like a bad idea--it's the massing of bloodcrushers that makes them effective. Put one of the icons with the plaguebearers.

Units of 5 horrors just sounds like free KPs to me. Easy to drop with any kind of massed fire. Even with rerolls, you take a couple of casualties and the unit is too small to be effective at anything, small enough to be mopped up by a minor unit in HtH in a single assault. One unit of 15 horrors would be more effective.

I also prefer DPs over SGs, but at least partly because those are the models I have.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594602.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594602.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594604.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594604.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list
As for 5 horrors being easy KP that is true but I needed them that
way for my grouping to work out.


G1:
Fate weaver
2 x herald
Bloodcrusher Group 1
Bloodcrusher Group 2
Soul Grinder
Soul Grinder

G2: I play Defence
Plague Bearers
Plague Bearers
Horrors
Horrors
Horrors
Flamers

I am considering swapping out the grinders for DPs]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594674.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594674.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list
G1
Fate weaver
Bloodchrusher w/ attached herald
Bloodchrusher w/ attached herald
SG
SG

G2
PB
PB
Flamers
1 unit of horrors

This gives you 5 and 4. Remember you can attach ICs to units in reserve to make them 1 unit.

I have tried DPs over SGs ... 2 SGs do way more dmg than even 3 DPs can.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594763.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594763.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list
Also I see the use of the icon to exploit wound allocation, but IMHO that's not worth 25 points. What seems much more important to me is the answer to Centurian's question of what happens if the second wave comes first--an icon in a PB unit in the second wave seems to me a better choice than saving a single wound on a single bloodcrusher.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594787.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594787.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list
as for splitting the Icons, If I drop the Icon I might as well drop the blood crusher with it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594942.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/594942.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list
Icons are insurance against bad scatters in your second wave. In your army in particular, you want to be able to drop the horrors and especially flamers in a very precise spot with no scatter to maximize the effects of the templates or other shooting (side or rear armor for the horrors). So you need an icon in your first wave to place your shooters.

If the second wave comes first, you want precision dropping of the bloodcrushers to avoid scattering their huge bases into mishaps or terrain. Once things start getting mixed up in later turns, that icon can make sure all the points invested in an expensive unit with a huge footprint don't get lost to a bad die roll.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595070.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595070.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595167.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595167.page GMT Re:Second Try at a competative Daemons list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595205.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595205.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list SGs. The most targets you can give your opponent is 3. I don't see what else they would concentrate fire on.

What else would those anti-tank weapons shoot at?

I guess I've had smart opponents that take SGs out first.

DPs really do some damage, just equip them correctly.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595227.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595227.page GMT Re:Second Try at a competative Daemons list
40kenthusiast wrote:Put the Heralds on chariots.


When you put heralds on chariots, they lose the independent character rule. So they can't join the bloodcrushers anymore and have to deepstrike on their own, can be singled out for shots...

That's why chariots cost less for heralds than juggers for similar benefits (chariots actually slightly better).

Unless you want the heralds on chariots to draw fire from the SGs. You're back to multiple horror units to make up the numbers, but a Khorne herald on a chariot can eat up to 4 shots, even without the rerollable invulnerable save.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595230.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595230.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list SGs where they cannot get to them with meltas w/o sacraficing a whole squad in the process. And Las does have long ragne but you need 3 decent rolls in a row to pop them. 3+ 5+ on a 4 wound MC just doesnt survive like it used to. Not to mention every unit can wound a DP, not every unit can take down a SG.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595232.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595232.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list
But my point was essentially that if the secondary comes in, the army has an extreme power deficit. You can try and play keep-away, but if the opposition is fast, they can be on you nearly immediately, and quite possibly take down your entire primary before you can bring in your reserves. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595248.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595248.page GMT Re:Second Try at a competative Daemons list
IE: the ideal formation for slaughtering your weak side would be to be all over the board, then as soon as they landed you could move + shoot + assault them out of existence. On the other hand, if you do that and the strong side lands you get reemed.

If anyone ever spread out vs. my Daemons and I rolled in my weak side it'd be a nightmarish game, but so far my foes generally take one look at all the nasty can castle, which lets me get away with a bad roll-in.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595275.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595275.page GMT Re:Second Try at a competative Daemons list
I think we're not on the same page about what icons are for, Clthomps?

Icons are insurance against bad scatters in your second wave. In your army in particular, you want to be able to drop the horrors and especially flamers in a very precise spot with no scatter to maximize the effects of the templates or other shooting (side or rear armor for the horrors). So you need an icon in your first wave to place your shooters.

If the second wave comes first, you want precision dropping of the bloodcrushers to avoid scattering their huge bases into mishaps or terrain. Once things start getting mixed up in later turns, that icon can make sure all the points invested in an expensive unit with a huge footprint don't get lost to a bad die roll.


I agree we are not on the same page. The Icons are there to give the bloodcrushers 1 more wound before I have to remove a model. Its a bonus that it can help me drop flamers and horrors. If all I got for my 25 pts was the improved DS then I wouldn't bother with one at all. That's why I don't find it all that important to have one in my second wave.

In response to the chariots, I think that a list with Bloodcrushers set up the way that they are its is almost required to have them on juggies. In essance it gives me 2 more wound before I need to take a model of the board,=.

As per the argument on SGs or DPs has anyone done the math? Assuming you are fighting a goldfish of Tac marines.

On a side note what should I do with the 30ish extra points I have? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595277.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595277.page GMT Re:Second Try at a competative Daemons list
40kenthusiast wrote:C99, in my experience with Khornate Daemons you get the time to bring in your hard stuff if the weak side comes in, because the opponent has to cluster up or hide off the board in preparation for the hard stuff.

IE: the ideal formation for slaughtering your weak side would be to be all over the board, then as soon as they landed you could move + shoot + assault them out of existence. On the other hand, if you do that and the strong side lands you get reemed.

If anyone ever spread out vs. my Daemons and I rolled in my weak side it'd be a nightmarish game, but so far my foes generally take one look at all the nasty can castle, which lets me get away with a bad roll-in.


I used to run a similar army, but my opponents figured out that if my secondary came in first, their best bet for defeating me was to kill off my secondary before the primary came in. It did leave the possibly for good reserve rolls, but if the games I lost consistently were games where my secondary came in first, and got crippled or killed while the primary force dribbled on.

It's why I always include at least one close-in resilient hard-hitting unit in my secondary...like a large squad of bloodletters.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595294.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595294.page GMT Re:Second Try at a competative Daemons list
Clthomps wrote:

On a side note what should I do with the 30ish extra points I have?


Upgrade a mawcannon? Is that worth it? Like I say, I never use souldgrinders.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595313.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595313.page GMT Second Try at a competative Daemons list
I think I have enough points for 8 is that big enough? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595519.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/232054/595519.page GMT