<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Eldar,cobblers!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Eldar,cobblers! I have decided to officially retire my Eldar army.
From numerous disasters with them,I think they are
too 'specialist' an army to be effective in the 40k
universe.Guardians are hamstrung from poor shooting
range.Why so high armour saves?They are supposed to
be agile,so why the hell are they so easy to kill?
They should be really difficult to hit!The Eldar weapons
are supposed to be really advanced,but on the battlefield,
This is not reflected.In world war 2 Sherman tanks were
nicknamed Ronsons,because one strike and they went up in
flames!The Eldar are just like this!Too much fluff and
no punch.No wonder they are on the edge of extinction,
They are crap!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/609893.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/609893.page GMT Eldar,cobblers! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/609903.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/609903.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
So what do you run & how do you run it?

(Might also be better off posting this in the 40K Tactics forum.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/609955.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/609955.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
Seriously, Eldar aren't the powerhouse they were in 4th edition, but unless you play nothing but POD lists or Nob bikers you should be able to hang tough.

I think we'd be able to help you more if you posted a list. I mean, just from what you've described, you seem to think that guardians should ever be shooting with their shuricats, which almost never happens. They shoot with their weapons platform from cover. Eldar tanks are also generally fairly durable, especially when fully loaded with spirit stones, holo fields, and vectored engines.

You can't expect any of your units to win a battle of attrition, but you should have the speed and maneuverability to set up mulit-charges, or bring down one part of the enemy through shooting at a time.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610012.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610012.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
Slipstream wrote:Whiny whiningness

Learn 2 play.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610182.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610182.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
In truth 5th ed really nerfed the Eldar more than most people realize simply because they were that overpowered for the most of 4th and even after getting a codex that softened them somewhat they were really good.

5th ed hurt the Eldar with:

First) Coversaves cut the effectiveness of the much depended upon heavy support in half.

Second) The run rule made the very fast Eldar not so fast any more.

Third)Their tanks lost a lot of mobile firepower survivability. In the 4th ed they moved 12" got to shoot and all shots against them were glancing. Now if they want protection they can't shoot.

Fourth)Each new Codex seems to be an uberdex that are hammering nails into the Eldar coffin.

Fifth) The back to back nerfings of first their last codex and now 5th edition has taken a toll that we are just beginning to see. It was like only 2-2&1/2 years ago the we were dealing with the Crystal Targeting matrix and Craftworld uberbuilds. So in our minds the Eldar are still super strong because of what we remember due to that we haven't played them as much under the new 5thed.

I have a thread called, "How would you change the eldar for 5th ed?" where we are discussing this. The eldar are still good but becoming very limited in builds.

@OP, Let us know if you want to get rid of the army, though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610256.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610256.page GMT Re:Eldar,cobblers! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610273.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610273.page GMT Re:Eldar,cobblers!
.Guardians are hamstrung from poor shooting
range.Why so high armour saves?They are supposed to
be agile,so why the hell are they so easy to kill?

Guardians are Poets and Philosophers.
They are not meant to go to battle. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610391.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610391.page GMT Re:Eldar,cobblers! IG
1)Avatar
2)2 11 man guardian squads,bright lance and starcannon
warlock each
3)6 Dire avengers
4)10 harlequins
5)Fire prism
6)support battery vibro cannons (2)
Started well Prism took out Leman russ,but guard turn
cuased havoc.Mortar platoon took out nearly all Harlequins
in cover Prism tank destroyed en route to attack in cover
mortars.Bad dice rolls made Avatar useless.
Ig tanks decimated rest of forces (chimeras with multilaser
and flamers)
The point i was trying to make about guardians was that
they have guns so they should be able to shoot at distance!
Otherwise they are just close combat troops with the wrong
weapons.If they are just there to support the weapons platform
that makes them useless!How can they protect if they are being easily
picked off at distance?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610417.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610417.page GMT Eldar,cobblers! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610540.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610540.page GMT Eldar,cobblers! they have serious anti-tank and infantry firepower, amazing mobility, a giant bloody molten beast, and some of the best psykers in 40k.
not to mention the amount of use that can be made from council / jetbike combo's.
you have some great CC troop choices (scorps, bans, harlies)
amazing shooting units (spys, reaps, drags)

and who doesent like mass skimmers with great firepower?

if used right eldar are tough to say the least, i rather play an ok ork player than a good eldar player.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610548.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610548.page GMT Re:Eldar,cobblers! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610553.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610553.page GMT Re:Eldar,cobblers!
robertsjf wrote:my fav cobbler is cherry! I love pie!


My favorite Cobbler is the guy who works in the orthotics shop in Ochsner next to my father's podiatry department.

Mostly because they let me use their vacuum press when I'm making armor...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610568.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610568.page GMT Eldar,cobblers! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610879.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610879.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
mattyboy22 wrote:I'll give you $20 bucks for them.

$40 here!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610931.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610931.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
But, I also don't think that the rumored guardsman being 1/2 the cost of a Guardian helps to make them even more obsolete.

Try using a Farseer. I find that the powers Doom and Fortune are especially important for tying an Eldar army together.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610948.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/610948.page GMT Re:Eldar,cobblers! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611024.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611024.page GMT Eldar,cobblers! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611142.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611142.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
lord_blackfang wrote:I lost with Orks yesterday. They must be crap.


With Orks, it's more random because of the massive number of dice you have to roll, especially against space marines, since they don't get an armor save against bolters. Unless you play the dreaded Nob bikers. I don't have that kind of money so I'm doomed I guess.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611179.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611179.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
well...they really needed it then.

The rules change and the eldar are one of the if not the most adaptable army to the battlefield. Adapt and overcome my friend.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611260.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611260.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
warpcrafter wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:I lost with Orks yesterday. They must be crap.


With Orks, it's more random because of the massive number of dice you have to roll, especially against space marines, since they don't get an armor save against bolters. Unless you play the dreaded Nob bikers. I don't have that kind of money so I'm doomed I guess.


Somebody didn't get the sarcasm... Anyways "massive number of dice" means you're going to be rolling closer to the statistical mean, so that's actually in their favor.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611261.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611261.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
willydstyle wrote:
warpcrafter wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:I lost with Orks yesterday. They must be crap.


With Orks, it's more random because of the massive number of dice you have to roll, especially against space marines, since they don't get an armor save against bolters. Unless you play the dreaded Nob bikers. I don't have that kind of money so I'm doomed I guess.


Somebody didn't get the sarcasm... Anyways "massive number of dice" means you're going to be rolling closer to the statistical mean, so that's actually in their favor.


The whole text on a computer screen thing totally kills sarcasm. Of course, I'm not all that good at getting the spoken variety either, unless it's really obvious, and even then I usually ignore it, because like violence, it's an option of last resort.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611304.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611304.page GMT Eldar,cobblers! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611307.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611307.page GMT Eldar,cobblers! WS, decent S, excellent Armour, buckets of attacks.

Guard DO NOT like HTH combat.

Guard are also probably the worst army for Harlequins. Sure they will carve up whichever unit they engage in short order, but are then left facing a lot of the recently deceased buddies with guns that aren't too bothered by the fixed save. Zappy death is sure to follow as a form of divine retribution. Harlequins ideally need a high point cost unit to go up against, as the sheer amount of rending and their high I really comes into it's own then. Guard have no such units.

I'll second the calls for more Dire Avengers. They are so superior to Guardians it's not funny. Only take Guardians if you think you will need the additional Heavy Weapons. A single multiwound Bright Lance is well worth considering, as you can plonk it in cover, hopefully on a nearby objective, and take shots of opportunity.

Avatar. Again, Guard are his nightmare as the amount of damage he can do is severely limited by their cheap as chips nature.

Now, your Fireprism isn't a bad choice here, but I don't think I would ever field just one. The temptation of souping up it's shot, and in doing so keeping one of them out of sight is very strong. Not always practical, but I'd prefer to keep that option open.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611345.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611345.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
Fireprisms are just as survivable with a holofield, have longer range, and BS4, and Wave Serpents negate Meltas (which will surely be in range as you're dropping troops off).

Loading up a bunch of Dire Avengers in Wave serpents and rushing the guard lines (Move 24", stay in your vehicle until your turn) and then have some Striking Scorpions outflank (or hell even ride in their own Wave Serpent) and then Bladestorm and Multi-Charge everybody should have you win the day.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611355.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611355.page GMT Re:Eldar,cobblers!
There you go. A hardy hardy army. Everything either have 3+/5+ rerollable saves, 2+, or is untargetable past 24". Or mechanised. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611372.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611372.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
I have a lot more fun with a "glass" eldar army because I get to apply a bit more strategy and tactics to succeed.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611377.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611377.page GMT Re:Eldar,cobblers!
Seriously? You should be shot, dragged through the streets of Dakkaville and your corpse hung and displayed before its citizens.

Eldar are fine. They have a handful of really good, viable and competitive lists. Yours, of which, isn't one of them. Look at some of the Mech lists for the Eldar some of the War Walker spam lists, buy some new models and get back out there.

Only Dark Angel players are allowed to be so moody.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611401.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611401.page GMT Re:Eldar,cobblers! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/227419.page]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611603.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611603.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
1)Avatar
2)2 11 man guardian squads,bright lance and starcannon
warlock each
3)6 Dire avengers
4)10 harlequins
5)Fire prism
6)support battery vibro cannons (2)

This list is not good vs. IG as Eldar can hardly outshoot Guard.

I'd take 6 Pathfinders, two DA units in Serpents, a Farseer with doom, and fill the rest with HS tanks like naked Prisms. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611673.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611673.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
I hear guardians aren't that bad with the Avatar. But still no Dire Avengers. Flanking Scorps in a WS is hilarious. So are FDs dropping out of a hov craft to melt tanks.

Falcs still have a use- they can transport!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611824.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
1) Any competitive Eldar list is going to be one of two boring styles. Sorry, I have done the Guardian Creep back in second edition. If I wanted to do something like that again, I would play Guard (who are better at it). I also ran the sniper heavy passive agressive army for a while and it wasn't fun for either side of the table. The new codex was the death of diversity, with so many redundant units of differing efficiency competing in the same slots.

2) Any remotely competitive Eldar list takes massive comp hits. There is a decided anti Xenos bias in both the GW design team and the player community. Marine lists with 12 Las Cannons get applauded while an Eldar list sporting a dozen Lances would get bitched about, despite the lances being worse BS and more expensive. I watched an Eldar player at the slaughter with litterally no two units alike in his army get comped as the third lowest in the entire GT, simply because he had 8 clowns and Eldrad in the list (one grav tank btw), while the same people were comping Pedro Cantor led lists near the top of the pack. Its part of the SM community mentality and it started back in 4th edition. Eldar match up well against marines and poor against anything horde, but 90% of the people out there are marines, so the nerd rage made perception reality. When I play Nidzilla, I don't get anywhere near the flak I used to when I played Eldar, and I never personally ran Eldrad in the last decade or so.

So, I have almost 20k of Eldar sitting on my shelves that I never use. Why should I play an army that is so poorly designed that only a couple of builds work with it and everyone will despise you for using them? The shear number of units in the new SM codex that completely rape the army pretty much tell me GW's stance on the matter. When I can get higher soft scores playing a more effective NId or Sisters army, why bother?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611948.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611948.page GMT Eldar,cobblers! Sv means you have to watch what you are doing. You can't just go out and say that you will be competitive by virtue of your base troops being all-around good.

I do think guardians are not the way to go right now. The argument is between a dire avenger base with or without bladestorm. BS4, 18" range, Ld 9, 4+ Sv for 12 points or BS3, 12" range, Ld 8, 5+ Sv for 8 points. Guardians are garbage or niche units in a greater build.
Guardians shooting means they are dying... they are a pricey way to get a heavy weapon out there with a BS 3, don't count on it. The decision is do I or don't I need the exarch with bladestorm.

At 1000 points you are better served by a doomseer than an avatar. Doom makes your S4 shots deadly. The avatar is the second option.

Mech eldar works but personally I dislike it. I think eldar are better served on foot with some guardian bike units to provide the much needed late game mobility to grab objectives. Eldar vehicles just don't put out a lot of firepower... 145 for a wave serpent with stones and TL brightlance. 75 for a razorback with TL las or other combination. Sorry, fast and 4 more eldar is not worth +70 points.

I am also starting to think all eldar CC units are somewhat worthless. They take up elite slots so they can't hold objectives and no one is really an all around unit. Banshees, scorpions, harlequins... All good but learn how to do the eldar dance and dire avengers will do the job for you without more than one counter attack force.

I do agree that Eldar in 5th really are a pale competitor to what they used to be. (When raven terminators get fleet and sorry your scorpions are too weighted down to fleet... eldar are losing the mobility factor. The defensive wpns to S4 also made falcons a total waste of time.)

Try a base of dire avengers with a doomseer add a wraithlord or two to discourage them getting close and you can dominate with firepower. 3 x 10 dire avengers bladestorming a doomed 10 terminator squad will kill them on average. (96 shots, 64 hits, 48 wounds... 8 dead termies on average...)

Just know you are not playing one of the current top-tier armies at this point in time.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611998.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/611998.page GMT Eldar,cobblers!
willydstyle wrote:Violence is what makes the world go 'round.


And sarcasm is the grease in the wheels.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/612003.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233044/612003.page GMT