<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
I've seen a lot of people down playing them while others like them. I know where I stand on this one but would like to hear what everyone elses thoughts are and why.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614125.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614125.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? But never leave it unsupported. In a coordinated strike this unit is really useful. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614129.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614129.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? HS,Wave serp, another shooty squad, or elite HtH units?
I know what I've been doing but don't want to influence other posters this early in the thread.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614135.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
focusedfire wrote:How do you support this unit? HS,Wave serp, another shooty squad, or elite HtH units?
I know what I've been doing but don't want to influence other posters this early in the thread.

Well, I usually field a Seer Council in a Serpent and two DA squads in Serpents; three troop units in total.. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614143.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614143.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614147.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614147.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Clthomps wrote:I think they the only time they make up there points is in 3+ groups of 10 supported by a avatar.

Guardian Defenders would be my choice for accompanying an Avatar.
Guardians are very vulnerable to blast weapons so that I protect them by a Serpent.
Its a cheap unit that can fill gaps in the combat line. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614149.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614149.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? WS quite a few times now because:

a) It's a scoring unit (and by god do us eldar players need them).
b) They're cheap.
c) Almost everyone thinks they're rubbish and ignores them while they craftily steal objectives or tie up depleted units for a couple of turns.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614163.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614163.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614192.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614192.page GMT Re:Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? eml sitting outside a dedicated TL-EML + shuriken cannon serpent. Engage at range and stay at range. Hope in and storm off with star engines is anything gets too close or the guardains are taking too many casulties.

In response to the OP, A completely opposed tactic is the aforementione 2x flamers + destructor all mounted in a similiar equipped wave serpent for close ranged flamey death. 12 models + a warlocks LD should be able to stay in the fights (morale checks wise) for a decent amount of time. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614221.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614221.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
G]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614246.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614246.page GMT Re:Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? LD opposition.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614267.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614267.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? My only problem with it is that guardians should always be supporting something bigger and nastier like an Avatar or some harlequins. Not sure i'd want to attach my HQ to something that will die easily if alot of attention gets focussed on it.

EDIT: Amusingly, that was my fiftieth post and i'm now a 'storming storm guardian'. Clearly my fate runes are functioning at maximum efficiency ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614285.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614285.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
What I did in the GT final was to let Yriel ride with the Storm Guardians. After disembarking he took on a squad separately. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614304.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614304.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Now I use them like most folks...2 flamers + Warlock destructor in a WS. They are a cheap scoring unit that can take objectives EASILY in the end game. 2 flamers + Destuctor on a Doomed unit is always fun!

As for support? If I think they need it, I also have a Council in WS, Dragons in a WS, and Jetbikes that can lend a hand. But, unless their WS is shot out from underneath them, I never need to support them. They either sit in the WS and take an objective that way, or hop out and burn the enemy on the objective on turn 5, thus taking it from them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614382.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614382.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Kilkrazy wrote:I have moved this thread to the tactics forum.


off-topic
@Kk-Thank you Kilkrazy, I flipped a coin on discussions vs tactics because there was room for a lot of non-tactic based opinion in the format I set for this thread.



On-topic

Some very interesting ideas here. especially on timing. I feel that the Eldar are the most tempo sensitive army in 40K.

Now I've been running 2 squads of storms in an ulthwe themed list and I like the results so far. I'm running enhanced locks and one flamer and one fusion squad both in Wave Serps.(sometimes I'll run them both with the same special weapons). My other troop is a 9 strong Jetbike squad thats led by a Jetseer w/guide for the 3 shuricannons. Rest of the army is doom/guideseer council in a falcon, 2 prisms, and 2 shuricannon vypers that provide cover for the jetbikes.

I'm finding that when backed up by a doom/guideseer w/council the storms are really effective as long as you bring tough squads(SM) down to about half strength.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614586.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614586.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
focusedfire wrote:
Some very interesting ideas here. especially on timing. I feel that the Eldar are the most tempo sensitive army in 40K.


QFT



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614686.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/614686.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
kh
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615134.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615134.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
focusedfire wrote:I'm finding that when backed up by a doom/guideseer w/council the storms are really effective as long as you bring tough squads(SM) down to about half strength.

You might want to take a gander at this thread. It's got me rethinking my farseer usage a bit - being unable to guide the contents of waveserpents from afar is going to force reconsideration.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615148.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615148.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
As others have said here, Storm Guard make a great cheap objective-grabber, especially in mech setups where the rest of your infantry are Aspect warriors (busy doing useful Aspect Warrior tasks). The 3-flamer configuration is good at clearing objectives, which you can then occupy and hunker down. Being Guardians, they're fragile- but in mech all your troops are usually fragile, and you'll be depositing them around the objectives at the last moment if you're good.

I wouldn't run Storm Guard in a footslogging list if I had a choice, even with the Avatar. Better to use Defenders as others have said, getting those heavy weapons in there.

Finally, with the advent of a very nasty-looking IG codex Storm Guard may eclipse Scorpions as the Guard-killer of choice. AP3 hellguns could mean some very dead Scorps after they slaughter one Guard unit. Stormies will still kick IG butt, but when charging multiple units they will probably take 2 combat turns to do so (and be much less of a loss if they do get rapid-fired to death than Scorps would be).

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615160.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615160.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? SMs. It really depends on how casual of a game it is. If its tourny then a squad of each.

I don't think the guide ruling is as bad as everyone thinks. Seriously, who are they going to shoot while still in the vehicle? I'm pretty sure you can unload them befor casting guide.

Snavock, I like your point about the Guard killers. I think a Dire Avenger Storm Guard list would really do a number in this situation.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615184.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615184.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/232224.page

This thread discusses storm guardians in a mech list with flamers and a destructor-lock.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615715.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615715.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
focusedfire wrote:I don't think the guide ruling is as bad as everyone thinks. Seriously, who are they going to shoot while still in the vehicle? I'm pretty sure you can unload them befor casting guide.

Eldar psychic powers are used at the beginning of the turn, before any units move. No, you can't get out of your waveserpent first.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615740.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615740.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Storm guardians: 1 Shuriken shot S4 AP5 3 CC attacks S3 (on the charge)

Guardian Defender: 2 Shuriken Shots S4 AP5 2 CC attacks S3 (on the charge).

In essence you trade a S3 no AP attack for a S4 AP5 attack. Since storm guardians are about the only assault troops without grenades, and can't get help from the autarch anymore, then charging anyone in cover is useless.

The only thing Stormies have going for them is the ability to take flamers (1 of only 4 units in the Eldar army by my qhuck mental tally). Otherwise, the defender squad is always better.

(unless ironically you GET charged in which case the assault unit was better . With the change to pistols always being 1 shot in 5th the defenders are always better now).

Oh, there is another thing that makes storm guardians useful...they look cool. That's why I keep trying to use mine, and they still don't do as well as Defenders.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615853.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615853.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
We said that we take them for 2 flamers + destructor in a WS. They are cheap, can score, can hide in a WS, and can hop out and fry stuff in the late game..even better with Doom! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615934.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615934.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Part of this may be a side effect of the meta game around here. I've never seen an opponent run units in the close proximity I've seen in batrep pictures here and on other sites. They are almost always at max coherency range. That really cuts back on the effectiveness of flamers (2-3 under the template vs 5-7). If you play in an area where your opponents run around packed together, then the 2 flamers are probably better.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615950.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/615950.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616219.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616219.page GMT Re:Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616220.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616220.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? FD or WG for that, if the tanks are that threatening...

The Witchblade is nice on vehicle but in a Death or Glory attack the front AV is used so usually a str 9 vs 12+ AV compared to the str 8+2d6 auto with the +1 to the damage table. If the guardian dies than on my turn I get the witchblade on the rear armour (+another melta attack).

I don't really send my guardians out by themselves. I place the objective in some cover and if my opponent wants to deal with them, it'll cost some long range fire or an assault unit. Long range fire? I go to ground for the 3+ save. Assaulting units? I run WS and outflanking scorpions so the guardians have some company.

Basically, I use the Storms the same as my grots. Just the Storms can't be pushed of my objective as easily.

YMMV

cheers!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616239.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616239.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Kyrolon wrote:I can see that working alerian, but the Defenders can have the same warlock, and at that range they are in shuricat range too, doubling the shots from the rest of the unit vs the pistols. Add in a cheap shuriken cannon and you have a decent unit, especially if the farseer rides along to guide/doom.


But...Defenders have to roll to hit, and don't ignore cover

Also, a cheap Gaurdian unit isn't the place that you usally want your Farseer. There are far better places for him to be.

Don't get me wrong, Defenders have a purpose, and that is, dare I say....defending. However, if you are trying to take objectives out of a WS, Stormies beat Defenders hands down. Aslo, as it has been mentioned, if you use your WS to tank shock the unit together, then Stormies can fry them easily.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616406.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616406.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Janthkin wrote:
focusedfire wrote:I don't think the guide ruling is as bad as everyone thinks. Seriously, who are they going to shoot while still in the vehicle? I'm pretty sure you can unload them befor casting guide.

Eldar psychic powers are used at the beginning of the turn, before any units move. No, you can't get out of your waveserpent first.


Thanks for pointing that out. The faq seems counter intuitive to the first paragraph of the Eldar psycher rules, but its an annoyance not so much of an army killer.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616626.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616626.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Alerian wrote:
Kyrolon wrote:I can see that working alerian, but the Defenders can have the same warlock, and at that range they are in shuricat range too, doubling the shots from the rest of the unit vs the pistols. Add in a cheap shuriken cannon and you have a decent unit, especially if the farseer rides along to guide/doom.


But...Defenders have to roll to hit, and don't ignore cover

Also, a cheap Gaurdian unit isn't the place that you usally want your Farseer. There are far better places for him to be.

Don't get me wrong, Defenders have a purpose, and that is, dare I say....defending. However, if you are trying to take objectives out of a WS, Stormies beat Defenders hands down. Aslo, as it has been mentioned, if you use your WS to tank shock the unit together, then Stormies can fry them easily.


All true, but then again I'd never send guardians against anything in cover. No grenades anymore. I see the point about tank shocking the unit together. Sadly, I guess I cater to my opponents in that regard. They'd stop playing me if I did that on a regular basis. It's bad enough when I do it to take an objective to pull out a win after watching eldar die by the handful for 5 turns and finally landing with my one surviving scoring unit. (usually the one whose transport didn't die). I swear my serpents are made of cursed wraithbone or something. As for the rest it's based soley on presonal experience. My storm guardians (flamers and all) never manage to kill more than 1 or 2 people before dying. The only army they make it into HTH against in our group is marines, and the marine player just laughs and cuts them down. The guard blow up the serpent before it gets there then drop a template on them. I will agree that if the Stormies make it to a guard unit they will win. Then again they cost a lot more since they need a serpent to get them there. More than likely the rest of the platoon guns them down after the assault.

As far as the seer with the guardians...I do it from time to time. Not as much now though. He used to get out along with the troops and let them run into assault if necessary after buffing them. Since the only way to hide now is actually being in a unit, it's not such a good idea.

Heck if the new codexes are any indicator the next incarntion of Stormies will cost 5 pts and come with Plasma and Krak. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616641.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616641.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616898.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/616898.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Savnock wrote:Man, if only the coolness-appearance-factor actually had a rules effect. Stormies (especially Matrixed-out ninja space Elf Stormies) would kick disproportionate squat-legged Marine butt right and left.


QFT


I've found that the storms do OK when you weaken the SM squad with doom and get them down to 4 or 5 models before assaulting with the enhance lock or the destructorlock.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/617112.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/617112.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? CC alternative to defenders, but at their core they are still a shooting unit because of their weapon options. If you don't try to use them in assault except when absolutely necessary, you won't be disappointed by them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/617150.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/617150.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
willydstyle wrote:I think the problem with storm guardians is that people see them as the CC alternative to defenders, but at their core they are still a shooting unit because of their weapon options. If you don't try to use them in assault except when absolutely necessary, you won't be disappointed by them.


QFT
I try to think of them as really cheap, scoring Dominion Squads...only cooler, cuz well...they are Eldar after all
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/617694.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/617694.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618263.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618263.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
J.Black wrote:They should never be anything but cheap scoring squads. They can bolster an assault, or inflict a little damage but should never be frontline. At least until 2 years from now when the new codex makes them irrelevant and we won't feel compelled to take them anymore (crosses fingers).


Or even better, they drop them down to the 5-6 point range, where they should be, and thus become more useable.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618306.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618306.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? bs 4 and be equipped with some type of grenade for the same points.

I'm still of the opinion that a warrior society that its citizens live for thousands of years and constantly step-up to serve are going to at least shoot well.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618661.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618661.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? BS/WS 3 represents a well-trained soldier. Guardsmen are bad ass, they just aren't as bad ass as super-humans, which space marines and aspect warriors represent.

Guardians are just fine at BS 3 fluffwise, I'm in the points-reduction camp.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618734.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618734.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
The bs increase would also free up room in the psycher powers for some real nifty stuff.

I'm also tired of people saying you can't do that because only the SMs are that good.

I feel thats a load of BS(pun intended). Those are just excuses to keep the SMs as always being near to top teir. SMs are supposed to be the finest all-around warriors as in a Jack-of-all-trades way. Not the best at every single aspect of war kind of thing.

Aspect warriors are supposed to be the best at any single aspect of war because of the path of the warrior, their long lives and because the basic eldar citizen is a very good starting point for making a warrior.

Giving them BS 4 doesn't make them SMs, closer to SoB but even them their armor save is worse and the sisters have acts of faith that really they can kick in to really change an entire squad.

I also think that they will need to improve and to drop in available numbers to reflect the effect that attrition has had on the race. To me that is my fluff reason for wanting the improvements.

Sorry about the rant

Please, tell of how you would like to be able to use the storms if they were to be improved. Then any tricks that you've come up with would be appreciated.

spelling edit]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618746.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618746.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? is a trained soldier really does point to them as being "better than human."

I think some good improvements to storm guardians would be plasma grenades... and maybe a better armor save, to represent the fact that they are throwing themselves recklessly into harms way by taking short-range-oriented weapons.

I also think that the guardian defender should have defensive grenades and 18" range shuriken catapults, then you could give Dire Avengers a 24" range shuriken catapult, and it would really allow players to focus on the "shooting then dancing out of range" feel that a lot of Eldar have to me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618750.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618750.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
If they won't up the bs though then stop letting regular guardians pilot the falc, war walkers, and vypers.

Why do the eldar not have an aspect dedicated to mechanized warfare? (Just a rhetorical question.)

The assault2 24" range is a bit much for the avengers and they're doing pretty good as is.

I keep looking at the new BS chart and how it now goes up to 10 and think that GW is gonna make some army benfit from that. If its not the eldar them maybe they'll drop the bs5 limit on Tau markerlights....

Sorry, wandered off there for a sec..

I like the idea of the plasma grenades and especially the improved armor. Just doesn't make sense to jeopardize you people that way when your race is dying off. Make it a 4+ save. Problem then is they become Tau-like. What to do?

So anyone run a Ulthwe-esque storm guardian firepower army?

If so, what are your tactics?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618771.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618771.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
I only run one unit of storms (though I'm thinking of converting up another unit) but a friend of mine extensively used storm guardian squads with an Avatar. He pretty much used them as units that followed the aspect warriors within the Avatar's fearless bubble.

He liked large squads with fusion guns, a singing spear warlock with enhance.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618774.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618774.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?

Working from that point you can see that they should be made better in the next codex. Just my opinion.


You see, I'm running a jetseer(I know its not efficient but hes got guide and a singing spear) with a 9 strong guardian jetbike squad, to cheap shuricannon vypers to provide cover for the jetbikes. The there are 2 storm squads(Enhance or destructor warlock) in EML/shuricannon equipped wave serps backed by 2 fire prisms. Running next to or in between the wave serps is a falcon with farseer(Doom/guide) and 4 locks.

What tactics do you see for such a build?

edit for sentence spacing]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618781.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618781.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? 40k FAQ on GW's website) and the jetbikes are already twin-linked.

I'd go with ONLY doom, or maybe doom/fortune (Ideal) because fortuned jetbikes are hardcore.

I like the storms in the serpents... that's how I run mine, but I'd just go with two destructorlocks. Enhance doesn't really make them that much better in CC in a lot of situations. If they had plasma grenades it would be worth it.

The falcon farseer should have fortune as well, so he can fortune the falcon to make re-rollable cover saves, and so if the locks get out, they'll be half-way durable. Hmmm... on further consideration fortune does make Falcons much deadlier... but IMO you should just go with a small unit of dire avengers with that farseer, so you can have a cheap scoring unit in a durable vehicle, rather than a unit of warlocks you'll never want to disembark.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618785.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618785.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? SM speeders and Rhinos.

The fortune works but would guide work on the Tank? I play in a group with a lot of anti psyker armies. As long as I don't target them and passively boost my units it isn't much of a problem.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618789.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618789.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? IMO a falcon just lacks accuracy to be too deadly unless you cast guide on it.

Shuriken Cannons are OK, but jetbikes aren't any tougher to kill than a space marine unless you fortune them. Also, if you guide your falcon instead, then that will be a much more reliable rhino-buster because of superior range and strength.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618792.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
But I can see the benefit of sneaking an extra scoring unit into the list, too. Hmmm. Lots of stuff to think about.

In case you couldn't tell, I've been playing Tau for a while and am finally getting to play with my wifes Eldar. She doesn't play but instead loves to paint. I love to play, assemble, and convert but am nowhere as good as she is in painting.

Back to the point, I'm just really starting to explore the Eldar in real game as opposed to just meta-gaming so it probably shows.

I figure a month or two will tune me up and get me to where I'm not so much of a Tau playing Eldar. I'm also not running the Craftworld Army that I'd like because I just finished converting some key pieces and can't put them back together until she paints them, but she is of course tied up with finishing the Tau.

I had to put a halt on purchases because of the backlog of unpainted pieces from getting good deals. You don't want to know the points totals but I will tell you that a friend of mine got out of the game and sold me around 3000 pts of eldar for 50 dollars.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618805.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618805.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
You are double-lucky to have a painting wife and a bunch of cheap models ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618813.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618813.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Im a fluff nut and i love my stormies]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618822.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618822.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? SLs that I use as a firebase (usually alongside WWs). Then I run 2 Stormie squads in WS, with my Dragons and Council in WSs to clear the way for them. The Stormies all get 2 flamers + destructor per squad.

Now, back in 3rd, when they were Black Guardians, they got enhance and plasma/haywire grednades and destroyed units by being I5 WS5...but those days are long gone.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618952.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/618952.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
willydstyle wrote:Well, if you feel like you need an assault unit... Guardians of any flavor are really not it. I'd consider a nice beefy aspect warrior squad in a wave serpent: scorpions or banshees would be nice, I favor scorpions because they come out ahead on combat resolution against a wider variety of targets than banshees do.


The aspects are good but I'm trying to make a fluff list thats fairly competitive. Nothing like a win against the hypercompetitive withoput using a single aspect warrior and staying true to the codex fluff.

willydstyle wrote:You are double-lucky to have a painting wife and a bunch of cheap models


QFT,

SSSHHH, Don't tell the dice gods but if I rolled 50% under statistical average, I wouldn't complain about my luck. She's also hot. I must have saved a bus load of drowning orphans in a prior life.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619328.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619328.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619372.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619372.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? very rare... but if it's part of your craftworld's fluff that you don't have any, then harlequins are also a decent squad, and don't have to be mechanized to be effective... if you're careful with them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619717.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619717.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
willydstyle wrote:Focusedfire: the craftworld that lacks aspect warriors would be very rare... but if it's part of your craftworld's fluff that you don't have any, then harlequins are also a decent squad, and don't have to be mechanized to be effective... if you're careful with them.


huh?

Ulthwe lacks Aspect warriors... if you want to play Ulwe in a fluffy way, you should only have 1-2 aspect squads. Ulthwe is all about the Council, Guardians, and as many units that can have warlocks as possible. And, as a major craftworld is has a very loarge following, so I completely understand wanting guardians for fluff
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619891.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619891.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619948.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619948.page GMT Re:Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
Go go harlequins (and hence Mr.Ra being able to accompany them) Likewise, wraithguard. Always a nice tough compliement to the multitude of slim artists guardains. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619964.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/619964.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/620038.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/620038.page GMT Storm Guardians, worthwhile or not?
I bumped up to 2150 by adding two 200 pt Harlequins squads that I held in reserve along with one of the wave serps full of guardians. They didn't staart to come in until turn 3 and the last wave serp didn't come in until turn 5.

I was playing a BT build that runs 3 squadrons of speeders, 2 tanks and the rest mechanized or dreadnaught.

Fighting 2150 os BT with only 1500(Poor reserve rolls) for the first 3 rounds and the Harlies being next to useless against his vehicles, I still almost pulled a draw.

I was ahead until the harlies came in right under his guns as it were. I seriously believe that if I'd dropped the points into another bike squad and some more vypers or storm guardians with another wave serp. the game would have gone the other way.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/620826.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233383/620826.page GMT