<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "I've just had a daft idea."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net I've just had a daft idea. 40k.

My initial response was 'Genestealer Cults'. Used to have small army yonks ago, not that I ever had much success with it.

And yet the word Cult just kept on bouncing around in my head. Focussing on it, this little gem popped, more or less fully formed, into my head....

Codex : Cults.

A Codex dedicated to the various Cults and minor forces out there in the Imperium. A single catch all volume, I envisage it embracing Lost and The Damned (Chaos Cults) Genestealer Brood Brother Cults, Imperial Cults (like the Redemptionists) and perhaps even random Xenos worshipping cults, though I include these more as a sense of completeness than fluff reasons.

Now, these could be fielded as a stand alone forces, though the size of the army would likely be quite limited. But I see this as a sort of 'allies' book. Tyranid players could adopt some Cult forces into their army, and likewise with the others. In order to make this work (and make the book a real temptation) perhaps a secondary list could be introduced for those forces, including 'valid' cult units that could be added. The inspiration here is the Allies system from the Inquisitorial Books, where you cannot port over Heavy Support options.

So, as an illustrated example, a Tyranid Incursion force (Which would include the Brood Brothers and that) might not be allowed say Elite Carnifexes, Hive Tyrants (initial control being maintained by the Patriarch/Brood Lord, bloated on psychic resonance) but could take Brood Brother Squads, Brood Brother Heavy Squads, and Hybrids. Essentially patching the two forces two together with fluff based restrictions to ensure things don't get too beardy. Same with Chaos Cults, Imperial Cults etc.

I think this is an appropriate way to represent them, as such forces are likely to be found fairly early on during a War, but wouldn't really be around for the culmination, as most commanders wouldn't think twice about using them as expendable cannon fodder.

Thoughts gentlemen (and ladies)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615700.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615700.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
For instance, Genestealer cults could have a broodlord and genestealers. IMO I can't think of much else in the tyranid book that actually fits fluff-wise, as all the non-tyranid biomass is eaten shortly after the cults pave the way for the hive mind to invade.

Chaos cults could have 0-1 unit of CSMs (probably not cult troops, but icons would be fine) as an elite choice, and then 0-2 units of daemons (the same troops units from the daemons codex) as troops choices, or something along those lines.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615758.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615758.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
For example, I can see the Red Redemption whipping up a fury amongst the Gangs and Civvies should their Hive come under threat. Add in some PDF type units, and you are there. An Imperial Cult list.

But, equally, I can see the Red Redemption and Gangs being unrequested auxilary troops, perhaps their presence swinging things the Imperiums way.

But is just an idea.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615777.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615777.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
Subject: I've just had a daft idea.



wouldnt be the 1st time

but i like the idea, might be able to drag squats back in like that aswell.
but alas, it means GW spending time doing something that people want for once, so it wont happen.
some official rules on the stealer cults though would be ace.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615783.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615783.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
I was thinking of working on it as a side project, doing the rules and that myself, then finding someone with more talent than me to do the page layout for a BoLS type affair?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615793.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615793.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
maybe start a single thread for each form of cult to gather info and ideas to start with, brainstorm it all out from there and how it will work, get more opinions from people and make a draft, have that checked out for a while then go for it.
could be a great project ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615799.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615799.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
Probably wind up better balanced than just doing it on me todd. Usually the failing of Home brew stuff that!

Now to work out whether there would be more than the three cult categories I mentioned so far.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615801.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615801.page GMT I've just had a daft idea. 40k @ 500 points) with the following races.

Chaos Cult / LatD / Mutant Brotherhood (Skavies/Muties)
Arbites / Inquisitor or Rogue Trader or Ad-Mech Retinue
Redemption / Feudal Gang (necromunda gang)
Genestealer Cult
Ork Survivors (Gorka Morka) / Snakebites (Feral Orks)
Eldar Exodites & Rangers
Kroot Warband

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615896.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615896.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
I see a pure Cult army as really capping off as effective up to around 1,000 points. After all, they are generally untrained, poorly equipped and ill disciplined for major warfare. But for smaller raids and sabotage, they will do nicely.

The combo lists I mentioned are intended for large games, as when you add some stuff from existing Codecies, you can add the muscle. For example, a Chaos Cult might not have much in the way of armour, but backed up by say, a couple of Traitor Predators and some Chaos Marines, they are capable of much more, even if it's mainly about supplying cover saves and getting in the way.

Perhaps to emphasise this nature, some special scenarios and missions need to be included?

I do like the suggestions you make, though I'm not too sure about the Eldar ones, beyond Ranger Infiltration forces.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615966.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/615966.page GMT Re:I've just had a daft idea.
IMHO the allies rules work because there are only 3 real flavours of army (guard, marines, =][=) and many of the allied units are very similar to already existing units in those armies. Plus, crucially, there are no restrictions that specify that say, grey knights can be used in a guard force but not in a marine force.

What you're proposing is a list with 1 or 2 units that can be taken in a nid force but can also be a stand alone. 1 or 2 that can be used by chaos, or as a stand alone, etc.

It would be hellishly complicated to write and balance.

Or else you're really asking for 4 or 5 different armies in 1 book. GW used to do this but managed it by trimming fluff and rules down to an absolute minimum.

Personally I'd want a real lost and the damned book and at least a PDF for genestealer cults.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/616699.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/616699.page GMT I've just had a daft idea. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617107.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617107.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
1. Lost And The Damned (Chaos Cults)

2. Genestealer Cults

3. Imperial Cults.

Each is going to have a third of the book, and a secondary list (where it allies with it's 'parent' army) to itself. Fluff will sadly be kept to a minimum, as IP wise I don't really want to tread on GW's toes. That and I am sadly not terribly adept at writing my own.

So, any suggestions from anyone what the 'theme' to each Cult should be? Obviously, Genestealer Cults trick is going to be Hybrids and Purestrains in amongst the Brood Brothers. Imperial Cults, going purely on The Redemption, I'm thinking a lot of flamer type weapons, and possibly a direct port of the Inquisitorial Blood Cult Assasins?

Lost and the Damned, well, pretty much as they were. Lots of mutants and that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617321.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617321.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
my idea on next step:

gather a vast list of all possible units / characters for each, then work on stat-lines and what role they will fill, and what type they will be (HQ, troop etc etc)

for example, the Patriarch would be a HQ, possible magus link into it?
function much like a brood lord but with a direct link to things like the brood brothers and brids (like the hive mind)
also, he would need a little more to show he is a strong psyker.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617326.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617326.page GMT Re:I've just had a daft idea. Broodlord

The Broodlord, (or Corporaptor Primus; the species name designated by the Imperium), is the ultimate product of Genestealer evolution and is a new creation for the Tyranids in 4th Edition of Warhammer 40,000. The Broodlord is immensely strong, agile and durable, which makes it a superb hand to hand warrior. In addition to their already potent melee combat abilities, the Broodlord also has a few Tyranid Biomorphs to enhance its already formidable combat prowers

The Broodlord acts as an assault commander for Tyranid armies, personally leading attacks while bearing the "synapse" ability frequently observed in higher forms of Tyranids. They are the only subgroup species of the Genestealers line in the recent edition of the Tyranid Codex. In the 3rd Edition of the game, there was no organizational structure of the Cult given rules. The addition of the Broodlord, while not a complete reproduction of a Patriarch, Magus, or Hybrids, does allow a player to field a "whole" Genestealer army, however, unlike the traditional Cult that rises up, takes its followers from among the local populace and psychically dominates them, and then worship the Tyranids as gods, the army led by the Broodlord is an infiltrating vanguard that operates in a similar manner to the Lictor.

The original model for the Broodlord looked very similar to the Patriarch model used for the Genestealer cult. The current model is slimmed down and resembles a taller, more erect and more fearsome version of the standard Genestealer.




Patriarch

A Patriarch is the originator of a brood. As the first Genestealer of the group, all other members are psychically linked through it; this leads it to attain a level of intelligence much higher than that of other Genestealers. Over time, it can become a very powerful psyker, and it grows much larger than an average Genestealer, becoming much stronger and more resistant to damage.

A Patriarch whose cult is on the verge of taking over a world becomes a psychic beacon, attracting Tyranids to the planet; as the Tyranids approach it will fall under the power of the Tyranid Hive Mind, and begin leading the cult in attacks on vulnerable positions to facilitate the inevitable invasion. It is assumed that it knows nothing of its role in the Tyranid invasion, and once the Tyranids are successful, it and the brood are also consumed by the Hive Fleet.

Patriarchs are known to live for hundreds of years. They are seen by the cult as a "father" figure, and should their destruction come to pass, the cult would be thrown into disarray. Eventually, however, the next oldest purestrain Genestealer would assume the role of Patriarch.

Many have speculated that the Patriarch and the Broodlord are one and the same. This is mainly due to both their psychic prowess and leadership over other Genestealers. Indeed this is even hinted in an interview with a GW sculptor. However the Broodlord is stated as a separate sub-species of Genestealer bred solely for its superior combat prowess and leadership, while the Patriarch is simply any ancient Genestealer with a cult.




Magus

A cult has a single Magus, who is an F4 Genestealer Hybrid that appears almost entirely human besides its baldness, denser-than-normal bone structure, hypnotic stare and slightly bluish/purplish-tinted skin. The Magus is highly charismatic and intelligent, possesses a human rather than alien comprehension and is a powerful psyker, but is absolutely dedicated to serving the Genestealer Patriarch and the cause of the cult. Its charisma and human traits allows it to act as the mouthpiece of the cult/brood to outside society and as the mouthpiece of the Patriarch to the brood, the role for which it is born.

The Magus is second in importance to the Patriarch; under these two individuals there is little hierarchy or leadership. Therefore both the Magus and the Patriarch are the primary targets of Imperial assassins. Killing both of these individuals would leave the Genestealer Cult leaderless and in disarray, allowing a military force to follow up and purge the masses of Genestealer Hybrid fanatics and their human relatives.

Like the Patriarch, the Genestealer Magus presumably knows nothing of its actual (and expendable) role in the Tyranid invasion it is aiding. The firstborn child of a Magus or Hierarch (non-psychic F4 Hybrid), will be a Purestrain Genestealer, but the species of any later children can be consciously chosen by the F4 parent.




Genestealer Cultists

All of the members of this unusual "family" of hosts, Hybrids and Genestealers become psychically linked to each other, and become fiercely loyal to their "family". Over time, the "family" grows as its members continue to breed and bring in more members, and the "family" will eventually grow large and become a Genestealer cult, sometimes worshipping some vaguely defined entity which will 'deliver' the worshippers and their planet from the harshness of life in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. This community is hidden behind the facade of an acceptable religious or political movement.

The psychic link maintained by the "family" or the cult - henceforth "brood" - acts as a psychic beacon, attracting the forces of the Tyranids to their planet. As more members are brought into the group, the psychic beacon grows stronger. As shown with the events leading up to the Tyranid invasion of Ichar IV (Kelly and Chambers, 2004), a brood can eventually grow so large that it will begin conducting sabotage or causing riots. Broods have even been observed rebelling against Imperial authority, attempting to seize ruling power over the planet for themselves. The ultimate goal (whether the brood knows it or not) is to sow discord or even neutralize planetary defenses in order to ease the Tyranid conquest and consumption of the planet.

Purestrain Genestealers, although highly cunning, are completely alien in their intelligence and said to lack creative intelligence. They are unable to wield weapons. Hybrids have some degree of human intelligence and are able to make use of weapons. Genestealers do have incredible animal cunning, however - they have even been seen acting as a sort of scout for Tyranid armies, stalking ahead of the main force.




Hybrids

A Hybrid is created by a Purestrain or earlier generation Hybrid Genestealer implanting its alien DNA into a host organism. The Genestealer DNA integrates into the host's genome, which results in slight enhancements to the host's physiology (to guarantee he or she survives long enough to reproduce), and alters their reproductive system and germ cell line, as well as hormonally enhancing the host's natural sexual drives. When infected hosts breed (only one parent needs to be infected), their firstborn child will be a Genestealer Hybrid. The parents and any later children will be virtually enslaved to their Hybrid family member through its psychic and pheromonal emanations, cherishing it with abnormally large amounts of affection. Depending on their generation, the Hybrid offspring range from looking like humans with Genestealer traits in the first Hybrid generation to Genestealers with human traits by the last; F1, F2, and F3 Hybrids reproduce like Purestrain Genestealers by infecting otherwise normal hosts, while F4 hybrids reproduce sexually. There are no "F5 hybrids" as F4 hybrids produce only pure Genstealers or pure humans - the firstborn child will inevitably be a Purestrain Genestealer, while successive children will be purely human.

Besides humans, Genestealers can infect virtually any other race or species, and can give rise to such creatures as Genestealer-Ork Hybrids or even Genestealer-Eldar Hybrids.




Brood Brothers

Brood Brothers are the human relatives and siblings of the Genestealer Hybrids. The Brood Brothers are not part of the main cult but form its extended family. They maintain their normal roles in the infiltrated society but are just as fanatically loyal to the Genestealer brood as the Hybrids. They worship the Genestealer Patriarch as a god. When the cult rebels, the Brood Brothers will take the side of their Genestealer kin. Brood Brothers are an important part of the cult as they are often part of the infiltrated planet's military defense forces, and when war breaks out against the world's Imperial rulers they provide much of the cult's conventional military strength.

In 2nd Edition of Warhammer 40,000, they were able to enter into combat like the Imperial Guard, ally with renegade Imperial troops, or use "liberated" vehicles once owned and operated by the Planetary Defense Force of the planet which they are infesting. They were led into battle by command squads formed of Hybrids.




Genestealer

Genestealers have the same basic body structure as all other Tyranids. They appear as roughly man-sized, six limbed creatures with both the chitinous exoskeleton and endoskeleton common to Tyranids.

Their two lower limbs are legs; another pair of limbs are extremely sharp claws which are used for tearing apart foes in close combat - these claws are so sharp that they can even hack through extremely well armored enemies, such as Space Marine Terminators, with ease. The other set of limbs are arms as well, but their nature varies depending on the type of species used to create the Genestealers or the needs of the Hive Mind. Genestealers are known for their incredible agility and great skill in close combat.

Genestealers were first encountered by the Imperium of Man on the moons of Ymgarl. After this encounter, Genestealers were further encountered on large derelict ships known as "space hulks"- these ship-borne encounters being the subject of the aforementioned Space Hulk game. With the invasion of Hive Fleet Behemoth, it was discovered that the Genestealer was in fact a part of the Tyranid race. Genestealers perform two roles for the Tyranid armies: first, they are often found in the Tyranid armies acting as assault troops; second, they can be found as an advance force of the Tyranids, aiding planetary invasions through the use of their unusual reproduction method.




Ymgarl Genestealer

By Third Edition, it was released that Imperial researchers concluded that the Ymgarl Genestealer is a form which became separated from the Tyranids, and, having completely lost its psychic link to the Hive Mind, has reverted to a feral state. Ymgarl Genestealers appear quite different from normal Genestealers, and this is also believed by the Imperials to be due to the separation from the Hive Mind, and generations of eating almost exclusively a native lifeform of the Ymgarl moons. The original Ymgarl Genestealers had a maw full of tentacles as illustrated in the original WH40K 1st edition book, which was not implemented in the later figures, although the tentacles was revisited with the current 4th edition model set, as Feeder Tendrils.




Backround

Genestealers appeared in the first edition of Warhammer 40,000 (Rogue Trader), but at the time were not related to Tyranids. They were simply noted as an "enigmatic monster ... from one of the moons of Ymgarl", now "spread throughout space" and "threatening to become a real menace". Since then it has been revealed that they are the advance forces of a Tyranid invasion and are now often seen as part of a Tyranid army.

The Genestealer Cult is a sub army that has been introduced several times for Warhammer 40,000. The initial introduction by Paul Murphy, Bryan Ansell, and Nigel Stillman was printed in White Dwarf issues 114-116 (1989). Original inspiration for the idea came from a novel by Harris Moir. This book was followed by an article from Andy Chambers and Jervis Johnson in White Dwarf issue 145 (1992) that detailed the Genestealer Cult as part of a Tyranid Army. Later, Tim Huckelbery detailed the Genestealer Cult Army in issues 40 & 41 of the Citadel Journal, under the title Codex: Genestealer Cults. This official supplemental Codex provided official rules for using Patriarchs, Magi, Hybrids and Broodbrother units. It even included rules for a "Transport Coven Limousine." Later, in the first Codex Tyranids, these rules were incorporated as the "Genestealer Cult Army List" and included all of the characters in their previous form sans Limousine.

In the Codex for 3rd Edition, there were no rules provided for the Genestealer Cults.[4] With the introduction of the Broodlord in 4th Edition, Genestealers could once again be fielded as their own army. Before the 4th edition introduced new sculpts for them, the 3rd edition genestealers were the oldest models in use to date (they were the same ones from Rogue Trader and the Space Hulk game).

Genestealers reproduce by introducing their genetic material into a host from another species; this is normally a human, but can theoretically be any humanoid race. The Genestealers have no genders, and require a creature of any species, any gender. The Genestealer will find a suitable host and place its genetic material, or DNA inside small deep wounds. Several hours later the infected victim wakes up from the incident, with no idea of what happened as the genetic material interferes with their memory. The new host of the Genestealer DNA will go on about its normal life, and eventually reproduce with another member of its species, the genestealer implant will then turn any offspring into hybrids. The genestealer reproductive cycle is truly cyclical, as an F4(only if human, eldar are much more protective and take 15-20 generations for genestealer strains to show) a few generetions after that and they begin spawning purestrain genestealers as well as hybrids nearly indistinguishable from the host parent species.

Newly born creatures, although fundamentally Genestealers, will have characteristics inherited from the host parent. Thus a Genestealer hybrid of Human stock may have a vaguely humanoid head, or only two arms instead of the usual four, and perhaps its tail will be shortened or missing. The Ymgarl Genestealers on their home world exploited a large leech-like creature called a Csith as their usual mate; and matings with a Csith always produce natural Ymgarl Genestealers, no matter what the parentage of previous generations.



Im guessing that should be a good start on info and other crap?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617337.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617337.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
I like the concept of them, but I fear introducing them would be little different to things like Marks of Chaos, making them tougher, faster, fightier etc?

And the Hybrid Generations. Perhaps have the Generation a purchased upgrade? IIRC, each Generation, as well as becoming more human, depended less on HTH combat, and more on guns. Thus, I would be tempted to keep Brood Brothers as the real cannon fodder, with Purestrains in their current role as shock troops (though with limited numbers perhaps?) and the Hybrids filling in for things like Heavy Squads?

What do you reckon?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617366.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617366.page GMT I've just had a daft idea. HQ, but you may only take 1.

hybrids could be seperated.
each generation of hybrid varies alot, so the most human like forms would be using tactical squad set-ups, ie: brood leader with CC wep and pistol, 7 standard hybrids with basic guns (shootas?) and then a heavy and special weapon with them.

the older generations however could have upgrades much like the nids codex, so better armour, extra arms = more attacks, rending rules for some.

alot of possibilities here, but could make some serious fun.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617374.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/233476/617374.page GMT I've just had a daft idea.
set up just a few cannon fodder type units with meq "heros" to go along with them, give them a large variety of equipment options and allow players to write their own fluff for each army they want to use it for. For example

Cultist (unit size 10-40)
WS 2 BS 2 S 3 T 3 W1 I2 A1 LD 5
May choose "tough skin" for +1T
May choose "combat drugs" for +1S
May choose "pitfighters" for +1WS
May choose "crack-shot" for +1BS
May choose "lightning reflexes for +2I
May choose "trained fighter" for +1A
May choose "mindless" for fearless, also become slow and purposeful
any model may be equiped with (insert a large variety of weapons here)
one model per 10 cultists may be upgraded to a cultist leader
etc

Cultist Leader
WS 3 BS 3 S 3 T 3 W 2 I 4 L 7
may select any upgrades from the Cultist section, may be equiped with (insert a couple of heavy weapons here, along with the ones listed for the normal cultist)

Cultist Legendary Hero
WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 L 8
may select any cultist upgrades, any cultist weapons, along with options for limited psy powers, and some cool close combat weapons to make him the only real threat in the list other than slowed masses of bodies

you could include in the codex ideas for how to fit the fluff of these for example
-genestealer cult, the hero can be built as a patriarch or a magus
-chaos cultists, the hero can be built as a mildly possesed madman with delusions of granduer
-necromunda, a massive gang, any kind of fluff can be written
-ad mech, make them all mindless and give them all the upgrades, call them robots and there you go.

the other benefit of this setup is then as an "ally" force it can be tailored to just about all existing armies.

want a screening force for your spase mareenz? they are the local planetary defense forces you are "protecting" (see: using them as fodder and taking all the glory of victory)

Dark eldar? they are tortured slaves who have been promised to be released if they fight for you (which is obviously not true, but hey, they are eeeevil)

the list goes on





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