<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
Everything I've seen concerning the Guard codex still leaves them heinously open to a successful Vanguard multi-charge. If infantry guard become the 'next' horde list, I see vanguard's viability shoot up "just a little bit".

...of course maybe I drank too much tonight.... ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632646.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632646.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
But by the same note, would not C:SM daemons be much more viable too?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632738.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632738.page GMT Re:Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
Vanguard usually don't make up their points as it is, now imagine against guard...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632744.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632744.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? CC during guard shooting. If you want/like/need jump packs, regular assault squads are pretty dirt cheap right now, but they do cut into your mobile multi-melta capability, which is an important aspect of the marine list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632815.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632815.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? DS a couple squads of AssTerms into his (our... ) lines. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632849.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632849.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632862.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632862.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632864.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/632864.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? IG gunnery as it is, firing half a dozen plasma shots in the middle of your army won't end too well...

Oh wait, it's just my tank crews who do that, not all IG.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633083.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633083.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633213.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633213.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
Not a bad price for a potential first turn assault. Throw in a cheap-o Sternguard/DropPod with Combi-Meltas/meltas to make a shot at taking on any tanks and also to draw any of that Inquisitor-spawned anti-drop fire.

And if that indeed occured... don't have the Witchhunter rules with me, but would that be shots at the Drop Pod itself, or the guys after they disembark? Either way, getting in on the IG quickly (in my mind) at least gets 'something' on them early. Toss in a Dread with MM as well to come in via reserve rolls (or switch with the sternguard, let them come in later) and...

Well, I see Vanguard as being an additional unit to drop in against shooty armies like IG, Tau, hell even Ork Lootas, and just beating the snot out of them early on in the game before too much damage can be meted out.

I'll have to try it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633244.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633244.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
cmagee79 wrote:Maybe, although they'd really be reaching if you gave them a lot of their potential upgrades. A friend who I credit as being far better than I said, for unit size, 'go big or go home' for anything you expect to survive. So.... figure a 10man Vanguard. 225 points. Add in a Drop Pod to ensure guaranteed Deep Strike potential and you're up to 260.

Not a bad price for a potential first turn assault. Throw in a cheap-o Sternguard/DropPod with Combi-Meltas/meltas to make a shot at taking on any tanks and also to draw any of that Inquisitor-spawned anti-drop fire.

And if that indeed occured... don't have the Witchhunter rules with me, but would that be shots at the Drop Pod itself, or the guys after they disembark? Either way, getting in on the IG quickly (in my mind) at least gets 'something' on them early. Toss in a Dread with MM as well to come in via reserve rolls (or switch with the sternguard, let them come in later) and...

Well, I see Vanguard as being an additional unit to drop in against shooty armies like IG, Tau, hell even Ork Lootas, and just beating the snot out of them early on in the game before too much damage can be meted out.

I'll have to try it.


Vanguard can't assault on the turn they deepstrike unless they arrive via jump-packs. Drop pods don't let them use "heroic intervention.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633252.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633252.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
willydstyle wrote:Vanguard can't assault on the turn they deepstrike unless they arrive via jump-packs. Drop pods don't let them use "heroic intervention.


Bah, scratch that idea then.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633295.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633295.page GMT Re:Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
Veterans in chimeras

veterans in vendettas/valkyries

3x infantry squads merged with a commissar.


Two units in transports, and a 30 man leadership 10 (possibly with re-roll) stubborn unit.


Small elite close combat units won't have anything tasty to charge against guard.

The best thing you can do with them is equip a very small unit with as much anti-tank as you can muster and H.I. off of a drop pod beacon near the artillery. If you can't make the charge that turn, you are done-zo.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633725.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/633725.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634137.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634137.page GMT Re:Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
Sgt. Salt wrote:You probably just drank too much
Vanguard usually don't make up their points as it is, now imagine against guard...


IMO this is the biggest fallacy about 5th edition yet; That a unit 'must make it's points back' to be worth taking. I'm going to quote myself from a similar thread, to avoid re-typing:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/230727.page#589238

Lordhat wrote:I think this has become the most important rule in 40k 5th ed. Don't be afraid to lose ANY unit you field. I catch a lot of flak about my 'overcosted' Vangaurd squad, how they 'die too easy' and 'don't make their points back'. The latter REALLY gets my goat, as outside of tournaments, the points you pay are meaningless to the result of the game. A VV squad is one KP. So is an Assault Terminator squad, so is.... you get the point. Each unit you field should have a purpose for that game. The combination of purposes should lead to the win. If your units do what you planned on them doing, instead of what your opponents plans on them doing, then they have 'made their points back', regardless of what, if anything, they have killed.

Sure I've had a few games where my VV's didn't do a lot, (but they always accomplish their mission, even if it is to inflicts several wounds and then die), but I've also had a few games where they have killed triple their points worth of models (after accomplishing their task).

As long as you have a good strategy, that can flex to the changing battle, and clear goals for each unit, don't be afraid to give up "VP's" to get the win.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634209.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634209.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
Even if the Vets land on target (sometime during turn 3-4), they will eat multiple blasts from a Leman Russ Squadron and die on arrival.

Drop pods have more utility because half of them show up first turn and leaving "everything in reserve" isn't really doable for a dedicated gunline, but again, Inquisitor with Mystics next to 3 Vendettas will have a very, very good chance of immobilizing/destroying it when it drops in.

If Mystics aren't part of the equation, then okay, different story, but for the life of me I can't think of any good reason why they wouldn't be.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634570.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634570.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? HQs look mighty good and the psycher squad looks good in a chimera.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634600.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634600.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
AdeptSister wrote:But with the new codex, will Inquisitors still be necessary? The new HQs look mighty good and the psycher squad looks good in a chimera.



Considering we can take an Elite Inq with 2 mystics for 32 pts, and the rest of our elites are... mediocre at best :(

Yes, you will still be seeing a lot of Inq/2mystics in any IG gunline worth it's salt.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634709.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634709.page GMT Re:Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? IMO, and yet the INQ is one of first things to get kicked out of any list. I've just managed to top out at 11-13 KP (depending on how much I actually merge), and putting two more back in again für a meagre return* isn't a good idea.


* 4d6 isn't causing that much trouble when there's only one INQ and you're not bunching up. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634900.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/634900.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? IG codex, being able to point a LR Demo or lascannon HW squad at anything with the moxy to DS within 14" of your fortified center. With the advent of squadrons and a vehicle (Vendetta) that makes for an excellent anti-armor platform, Inquisitor/Mystics effectiveness basically triples (3x LR shooting, 3x Vendetta shooting).

How powerful would a 32 pt piece of wargear that didn't let anyone Deep Strike within 14" of your guys be? Everyone would take it in competitive lists because it's a no-brainer. On their worst day, that's what the DH Inq/Mystic combo is. It's a powerful psychological barrier for your opponent. Against Daemons, Crisis Tau, and certain drop Marine builds, it just shuts them down.

I hear what you're saying about kill points, but Ive featured these guys in my list for a long time, and they hardly ever die. It's so difficult to hunt down 3 dudes.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635049.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635049.page GMT Re:Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
66% of the time you will scatter
7 being the most common scatter = likely mishap or out of assault range

Love the models though...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635109.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635109.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
You might as well just spam out flamers with Vulkan and call it a day since flamers and meltas are the best weapons in the game currently.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635123.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635123.page GMT Re:Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units?
AgeOfEgos wrote:Whatever new dex comes out won't change how unreliable and pricey Vanguard are.

66% of the time you will scatter
7 being the most common scatter = likely mishap or out of assault range

Love the models though...


You can't really plan to use H.I. unless you have a locator beacon network. So I'd say 100% of the time you'll be scatter free.

Whether or not I'd rather just have a bunch of hflamer/mmelta speeders instead is another topic ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635435.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635435.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635560.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635560.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635968.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/635968.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/642278.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/642278.page GMT Will the new Guard Codex Breath new life into Vanguard units? IG, those scout bikers alone could probably steamroll anything in their way in close combat.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/642403.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/234472/642403.page GMT