http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net
The list is built around the pie plate and small blasts, since BS3 guard need all the help they can get actually hitting stuff with that mighty firepower.

:HQ:

CCS
company commander
master of ordinance
chimera
(135)

:Troops:

PCS
platoon commander
chimera
(85)

4x infantry squads with ML and GL (man I miss those cheap plasma rifles already)
(260)

2x mortar squads
(120)

PCS
platoon commander
chimera
(85)

4x infantry squads with ML and GL
(260)

2x mortar squad
(120)

:Fast Attack:

vendetta
(130)

vendetta
(130)

:Heavy Support:

2x griffon
(150)

2x griffon
(150)

2x demolisher
(360)

As it stands, thats 4 AP4 templates at 2 targets, and 2 AP2 templates at a third, plus the scatter-happy advisor's earthshaker potshot. 4 mortar squads to help when you dont want to waste one of your arty rounds on that understrength infantry squad, 8 direct fire infantry heavy weapons and their crappy but cheap GLs, and 6 TL LCs.

The concerns I had here were two big things: while squadrons let you take more pieplates now, they all have to fire at the same target. That means that you are potentially wasting points, seeing as 9 basilisks can only fire at 3 targets. Also, when I had previously used mulitple basilisks in my arty lists, I had used the corner-corner crisscross fire tactic so that the minimum 36" range wouldn't be a problem. And if things got too close, you could always carefully drive into the woods you were hiding behind and fire directly if you had to. But now that bassies can only fire indirectly (right? or am I completely mistaken?), that minimum 36 becomes a bigger problem.

If you take out the bassie, the griffon and the demolisher seem like the best bets to me. Griffon is more accurate, has only minimum 12", and is dirt cheap. Demolisher gives you the AP and the survivability. Executioner seems good, but is massively expensive and weak vs heavy armor, and everything else doesn't seem to help much vs 2+ saves. Standard russ is reliable as always, but still weak vs 2+ and heavy armor, and something has to pop that land raider.

So, do you trade a bassie's AP3 template for 2 griffon AP4 templates?
Would 6 demolishers be better for the points?
Is it worth it to take all 10 possible templates when they can only be split between 3 targets and a fourth that will scatter 3d6-4 every time?
Is the main line battle tank, which is handy against MEQs, still worth it when you can take a demolisher for a few points more, which is handy against everything but has shorter range?
I'll also note that I've never found mortars increadibly useful, but I was more concerned with trying to get more lascannons in my older lists and never bothered to take them that often. Killing the land raiders and battle wagons were more pressing priorities for me. Are they worth it, or should I opt for those ever-so-killable lascannon antitank squads?

any feedback is appreciated.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/235336/647949.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/235336/647949.page GMT IG codex that is coming (I haven't been to a GW shop in a while) but from what I've heard and putting that together, this list seems like it can do some heavy damage to Nids and Orks(and definitely some others, but those come to mind)

I love the idea, and I agree that IG needs as much template and heavy fire power as possible lol

and for the sake of survivability, I would say Demolishers are/could be the way the go. Cuz I personally don't like getting a tank within 12" of anything. But I don't know how Griffins work yet, and I don't know what you considered for the sponsons/hull weapons. Another reason I think Demolishers might be safer is because since my own Dem. has 3 heavy bolters (and a heavy stubber w/ arm'rd crew comp) those 12 shots will most definitely take out a nice number, and since you can have tank squadrons now, 18-27 HB's and 6-9 HS's on a single enemy squad will do damage. No question to it haha]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/235336/647991.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/235336/647991.page GMT CCS and 2 PCS all loaded out with Chimeras, but no special weapons - I can appreciate wanting to having the Company Commander hang back and give orders while the MoO does his thing, but at the very least, give the PCS's some meltas and send them tank hunting. Heck, you've got 2 Vendettas, right? Get 2 SWS squads loaded with 3 meltas each and use the Vendettas to carry them to where they need to be (this is in addition to the PCS's with meltas, mind you).

Next issue - Missile Launchers. They're not doing you any good against AV14 and not doing much good against AV13 either. And anyway, with the melta squads, you don't need to worry about medium to heavy tanks with your line squads. Change these out to ACs. They're cheaper and better against light vehicles and infantry alike. If you really need the points, stick with GLs, but since you're saving 5 points a pop by taking ACs instead of MLs, use that to take some plasma guns.

Mortar Squads - In my opinion they're not worth it. Use those points towards SWS squads with Meltas and Plasma Guns.

In general, I think that 2x2 Griffons is pretty solid. But combining these with the Demolishers and you've only got 1 pie plate that you can throw outside of 48" - and that's from the MoO. I mean, 48" isn't anything to laugh at, but I think I'd rather save some points on those Demolishers and go with standard LRBTs so that you can throw some pies out to 72"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/235336/648008.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/235336/648008.page GMT
But you're right. The list needs meltaguns (maybe in vet squads). As for MLs, I never use them agains AV 13+ (I mentioned this in my flanking list thread but forgot to do it again here). I use them basically as autocannons with a better chance of actually hitting infantry, and are sometimes handy against MCs and the like.

You mentioned that ACs are better vs infantry than frag missiles? I don't disbelieve you, but I never really considered that.

The demolishers I field almost always get their shots off on the land raider (or battlewagon / monolith / whatever). 24 inch range plus a 6 inch move, the other guy almost always deploys the land raider 12 inches forward, so you rarely start more than 30 inches away anyways.

How often do you need to hit something farther than 4 feet away? Its been my experience that there's always something closer that needs killing before it gets into hand to hand. I guess enemy artillery would fall into that category, but once again I always need to kill that assault squad before I worry about the whirlwind or looted bassie.

EDIT: Whoops. That sounded misleading because I haven't said what guard list I play. I use cameleoline on everyone, so enemy artillery doesn't scare me much. Assault marines, stormboys, and the like, however, are a problem. Back in my old guard army the enemy artillery was always among the first things I shot at with the bassies.

Mortars suck? Point taken. I'll exchange then for meltagun veterans.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/235336/648067.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/235336/648067.page GMT ACs vs. MLs when it comes to infantry, but the higher strength makes up for the fact that you don't hit as many. It may not be quite as good, but it's not bad at all. And in the numbers you want to take in line squads, more than makes up for it with the points decrease.

You make a good point about the (in)frequency of needing to hit something more than four feet away - particularly in the rich cover environment that is 5E. I may need to give some reconsideration to the standard LRBT. I guess the Griffons will be solid enough for hitting the backfield of an opponent's deployment on Turn 1.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/235336/648110.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/235336/648110.page GMT