Giant Moth wrote:Deep Striking Landspeeders with multimeltas or Typhon Missile Launchers can be pretty nasty, right? Are they best to take as one or two alone, or have in squads of three?

Also, nothing wrong with Devastators or Predators for anti-tank, is there? Or are those best kept for anti-infantry? I've actually never tried out an autocannon/heavy bolter predator before, though seems vindicator does that job a lot better.

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:How is this good? When deepstriking vehicles, they count as moving at cruising speed. So no shooting the turn they drop.

willydstyle wrote:The Typhoon/Heavybolter combo is very, very strong.

Giant Moth wrote:Has anyone had any good experience with land speeder storm? It seems like a very sound tactical choice, being able to charge something relatively weak(like a thunderfire cannon, or lascannon team) on round 1. Equip with combat blade, and add a power weapon on the sergeant, and they can do some real damage!

I'm also curious what peoples thoughts are on Honour Guard. Overpriced and overglorified tactical marines, or worth it? And is it worth fielding a command squad with a captain, perhaps even puting them on bikes, or in a rhino? Sounds potentialy as annoying as nob bikers, except with only 1 wound.

combatmedic wrote:Id like to see some good anti-imp guard tactics. I went up against a imp guard this past week in a regular 6000 point game, and his tanks (all 23 and 2 baneblades) ripped me to shreds. Is there a decent tactic out there for getting behind the iron curtain? The only point I started doing any real damage was when my landspeeders with MM got behind his lines, and I was able to take a few tanks down, but that was turn 3, and by then half my army was gone from the overkill of shots each turn. Terminators didnt do much better, as they could not deep strike anywhere near the tanks (It was shoulder to shoulder tanks on the damn field).

combatmedic wrote:Id like to see some good anti-imp guard tactics. I went up against a imp guard this past week in a regular 6000 point game, and his tanks (all 23 and 2 baneblades) ripped me to shreds. Is there a decent tactic out there for getting behind the iron curtain? The only point I started doing any real damage was when my landspeeders with MM got behind his lines, and I was able to take a few tanks down, but that was turn 3, and by then half my army was gone from the overkill of shots each turn. Terminators didnt do much better, as they could not deep strike anywhere near the tanks (It was shoulder to shoulder tanks on the damn field).

Green Blow Fly wrote:Marines suck now compared to the previous codex. You could spam assault cannons like nobody's business and the librarian was a god...

Two terminator command squads for a total of four assault cannons plus three elite squads of terminator for a plus total of six more assault cannons plus up to nine landspeeders with a plus total of nine more landspeeders... 19 assault cannons total. Now throw in the previous rendition of Captain Lysander with deep striking landspeeders when they could still shoot the turn they arrived from reserve. That was about as sick as you could get for Marines and no Marine army today could hold a match stick to that. So why even bother now when it comes to vanilla Marines?

G

Giant Moth wrote: The regular marines are also better, with the new and improved ATSKNF. Some of the chaptert tactics you can get is very handy(regular) to outright sick(Salamander).

Hollismason wrote:I think personally peoplearestill in a 4th edition mindset when it applies to marines

asugradinwa wrote:Marines can do lots of things, but are never the best at any of it. They allow you to build an army that does what you want. There is nothing wrong going with a themed army, but from what I'm seeing there are only a couple highly competitive tournament builds at 1500-2000 points. However I'll give an explanation of some things you can do with a codex.

Want an entire first turn assault based army? Get shrike with Vanguard and then infiltrate 6 units of hand to hand scouts. Of course if you draw turn 2 you'll be in for a fight.

You can run an entire army on bikes, but then that limits you to 3+ saves & reduces model count.

You can go with a gunline with a master of the forge & all ranged weapons (if only there was a way to get 6 predators in one list, or even 3 thunderfires & three predators.), but guard can outgun you.

Things like allied mystics, master of the fleet, and even good ol kill points makes a full drop poding army less viable.

Duel Lash, Psychic Choir, & guided war walkers make an entire footslogging army cry.

So how do you create the most competitive lists in space marines? Here is how:

1. Mechanize everything you can. In general everything should have a transport. If you don't Lash & the Choir will make life very hard. This also means that camo scout squads might not be as effective as they once were.

2. Make sure you have a librarian in your force with null zone. A chance to stop psychic powers? YES PLEASE! Making an enemy reroll invu saves? YES PLEASE! I love watching a jet bike seer council fail to get fortuned and then get assaulted by assault terminators.

3. Melta is your friend! The more games I play the more I'm convinced that the multi melta is the best weapon for space marines. That being said, drop poding sternguard with combi meltas aren’t a bad option either. Where else will you get AP1 with 2d6 armor penetration once you are close? AP1 means your chances of destroying a vehicle just went from 33% to 50% on a pen and from 0% to 16% on a glance! With a multi melta you need to be within 12 inches. Every easy to do with Attack Bikes, land Speeders, and even Land raider Crusaders/Redeemers.

4. Tac Squads are expensive. At 205 min for a fully functional tac squad (mounted in a rhino with weapons options) you can't really afford to have too many in your force. Combat squading helps this. Remember that a 5 man combat squad in a land raider can hold an objective just as well as a 10 man squad. I almost never run more then 2 full tac squads in anything less then 2000 points. I have never yet run out of scoring units needed to win a game doing this. If you are afraid a tac squad will get killed early then you can leave it in reserve, if you build your list correctly those 8 extra bolter shots won't be needed.

5. You need some range & you need some HTH. Tac squads (in a rhino) with a plasma cannon or lascanon can kill things at range. Thunderfires can kill things at range. Predators can kill things at range. Vindicators took a hit with no longer being able to get POTMS but can still be effective. Orbital bombardment can kill LOTS of things at range. However you also need something that can hold their own in assault. Dreadnoughts & Assault terminators (with storm shields) tend to be the best at this.

6. Land raiders are a must. If you are playing 1500+ points you should be fielding at least one land raider variant. The regular land raiders work best when loaded with a scoring unit and can sit back and open fire across the field. The Crusader and Redeemer work best when you put your Hand to Hand unit inside and rush it towards the lines. Extra armor is almost a must have for these. Once it has dropped off it's cargo it can keep fighting and maybe even pick up a unit to make it scoring (from a late turn drop poded tac squad, outflanking scout squad, or rhino that had been following).

7. Synergy. I've always loved the phrase from Transformers The Movie: "First we crack the shell, then we crack the nuts inside!" You use your Melta/Demolisher/Lascannon to open up the transports then you have you HTH unit assault it or your long range dakka (preds/Thunderfire) open fire.

Pedro allows you to take highly effective sternguard who can score and helps everything around him in assault. That plus the Orbital bombardment is a pretty good deal for 175.

Vulkan means that your meltas got that much better, plus he & assault terminators make one hell of a HTH unit. Oh and now you can twin link flamers & heavy flamer s for more anti horde stuff.

Hope that helps!

asugradinwa wrote:

4. Tac Squads are expensive. At 205 min for a fully functional tac squad (mounted in a rhino with weapons options) you can't really afford to have too many in your force. Combat squading helps this. Remember that a 5 man combat squad in a land raider can hold an objective just as well as a 10 man squad. I almost never run more then 2 full tac squads in anything less then 2000 points. I have never yet run out of scoring units needed to win a game doing this. If you are afraid a tac squad will get killed early then you can leave it in reserve, if you build your list correctly those 8 extra bolter shots won't be needed.

Leotilt wrote:Marines can actually lay down a mobile list where everything can dual purpose. Dreads with multi-melta and heavy flamer, speeders with same load out, land raiders with tac squads in em.

I really don't like "powerunit" lists, you give the opponent an instant focus and justify him for focus firing it, once it's gone you don't have much left. Whereas if you have spammed multipurpose killing and have your scoring units inside av14 then he's facing threats in every element. He has to kill it all to feel safe, if he focuses on one element the other elements paste him.

Drop pod armies? Meh, good to shake things up but really suck if they are denied there "shock and awe" turn and people will twig on about that.