<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Dire Avengers!?"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Dire Avengers!?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Dire Avengers!? DA squads, items/exarch, complimenting units, ect?

I have been interesting to converting my army to a more mech-style, and am thinking shimmershield will work to my advantage, being able to bladestorm a small squad to the size where they can be easily taken in an assault. Though I have been reading some mixed reviews about people saying to keep DAs out of assaults because they have decent range and a lot of mobility and can move from objective to objective.

Eldar players, what do you use, how do you use it? I feel like DAs are a really great troop choice, probably the best for a mech-eldar style army, which would cater to my "hit hard and fast" style of play.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670546.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670546.page GMT Dire Avengers!? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670579.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670579.page GMT Dire Avengers!? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670606.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670606.page GMT Dire Avengers!?
Hordes (ork/nids/etc.)
10 dires, exarch 2 catapults and bladestorm

Elite killers (IC character/multiwound)
5+, exarch, defend and diresword & Serpant
comment:
This can be an expensive, one purpose squad but i have killed a hive tyrant & chaplian using this.

Tau/Eldar
6+, exarch, power weapon, bladestorm & Serpant

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670622.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670622.page GMT Dire Avengers!? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670627.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670627.page GMT Dire Avengers!?
It's worth noting that without bladestorm, the mathammer says you'll get a very similar result if you're using guardians with a scatter laser.

It's rounghly 5 wounds apiece firing.

Plus Guardians are hella cheap. I love guardians, that's why I mentioned it :-)

My DAs, however, I run 10 (inc Exarch w/2 Cats & BS) in a serpent. It's costly, but is good to use for
a)clearing out stubborn objective-holders or
b) softening up a squad for my banshees (who are also in a serpent)

I feel that PW and shimmershield is a waste of points as I tend to keep them out of assault. Build on the strength of the squad, not the weakness. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670648.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670648.page GMT Dire Avengers!? 1) 9+Exarch w/2 catapults+bladestorm mounted in a wave serpent with a Guide/Doomseer. I combine these units with the Fish of Fury tactic.
2)9+Exarch w/Diresword+defend+Bladestorm. I advance them up the board with the Avatar.

My Dire Avengers usually worry about forward objectives while the ever tenacious guardian squads provide backup fire support.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670674.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/670674.page GMT Dire Avengers!?
T1 Bladestorm, T2 remount in serpent, T3 Bladestorm, T4 remount.......

Very effective. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/672154.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/672154.page GMT Dire Avengers!?

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:9+Exarch w/2 catapults+bladestorm mounted in a wave serpent. Preferably Farseer near to guide/doom.

T1 Bladestorm, T2 remount in serpent, T3 Bladestorm, T4 remount.......

Very effective.

This only works for a limited time against a certain opponent, they will wise up to it. However, since you probably only face someone once in a tournament, this is a great tournament strategy.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/673765.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/673765.page GMT Re:Dire Avengers!? DAs with a doom/guide farseer pops in and unloads. In a friendly game between a couple of the guys I know the Eldar took apart about 1/3 of the Chaos Marine player's army in one round of shooting with that squad, not to mention the other serpent full of DAs that was hanging back, ready to do another bladestorm next turn. If the DA's gun only has 12" range, though (I don't know the range), be careful of using that against Berzerkers, Space Wolves, etc etc. If enough of them are left and get a charge in, that DA squad isn't going to make it back into its transport.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/673885.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/673885.page GMT Re:Dire Avengers!?

Darkreaver55 wrote: If the DA's gun only has 12" range, though (I don't know the range)

18"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/674169.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/674169.page GMT Re:Dire Avengers!?
Up until recently I always took the exarch with 2x catapults, and bladestorm. Good at shooting from 18" obviously. Don't get them in cc.

Last game, however, I took the Dire sword/defend/bladestorm and must say I was impressed. With Guide and doom they pretty much single handedly took out a full squad of black templars w/ neophites. I found it amazing and slightly hilarious. I couldn't believe it worked. Who'lda thunk?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/674229.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/674229.page GMT Dire Avengers!? DAs until something else can be brought to bear. If they have room to hop back into their serpent to retreat and reload, though, they'll be unholy terrors.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/674319.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/674319.page GMT Dire Avengers!? DA's so that they tie up the assault unit for the rest of the game (or kill it).

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676276.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676276.page GMT Dire Avengers!? DA with no exarch in a Serpent with Spirit Stones. I don't like bladestorm, you lose shots over the course of the game. Instead, I run the Avenger Serpents together and keep a farseer nearby for Doom.anything they fire at usually dies.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676295.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676295.page GMT Dire Avengers!? TW BL?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676595.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676595.page GMT Dire Avengers!? BLs. It's a pricey and fragile troops choice, but it works pretty well.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676599.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676599.page GMT Dire Avengers!?
And hey, once every 3 or 4 games they might even kill something. (The DA, not the Falcon).

If you don't have unused Falcon room then I'd say you want to go middling with them, either 10 in a Serpent with no upgrades, or maybe 10 with BS if you;re running with a lot of Doom and Guide. Personally, I think there are better ways to spend points in the Eldar Dex than seriously buffing the DA. A little extra oomph is fine, but I wouldn't go overboard.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676617.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676617.page GMT Dire Avengers!? DAs in serpents, I usually put a BL on top. The starcannons go on the serpents carrying the three flamer templates.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676626.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676626.page GMT Dire Avengers!?

Polonius wrote:I use 10 men, Bladestorm, twin Shuricat Exarchs in Serpents with twin BLs. It's a pricey and fragile troops choice, but it works pretty well.

5 with Serpents with S. Cannons is alot cheaper. The DA's really don't have to get out, they are much safer inside their vehicle.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676819.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/676819.page GMT Dire Avengers!?
They shoot doomed units, and kill lots!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/677980.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/677980.page GMT Dire Avengers!?

Xenith wrote:I use 10 in a serpent, exarch with dual cats, blade storm.

They shoot doomed units, and kill lots!

This is my loadout too.

I run 2 Serpents with Avengers in my mech list, and the only time they get out is late game to clear an objective. So missing a turn of shooting doesn't really matter, since they should clean up in a single turn.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/678155.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/678155.page GMT Dire Avengers!?

whitedragon wrote:5 with a serpent is cheaper. They shouldn't ever be getting out.

Thats exactly what I do too. I don't think of them as a squad to actually use, they are a 60 point upgrade that makes a flying waveserpent score.

They only get out when the serpent explodes, and then they run.

Honestly, Dire Avengers are novel with cool powers but really don't compete with any other armies troop choices very well, being S3, T3, Sv4 and having to deal with the Morale rules for real, unlike fearless, LD10 or ATSKNF troops do they tend to fold in melee, loose in shooting and are generally outclassed. Adding the exarch and all the candy makes the unit so expensive you could have 2 smaller ones, and as their best feature is scoring unit for minimum cost, thats what I use them for.

(A Bladestorm and doom with a 10 man unit seems cool, but is over 300 points to set up, with a transport too it is over 500, All the tough units in tourney armies like Nob Bikes, Space Marine Bikes, Plague Marines and AV 11+ vehicles and dreads just laugh at it...)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/678178.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/678178.page GMT Dire Avengers!?

Augustus wrote:
(A Bladestorm and doom with a 10 man unit seems cool, but is over 300 points to set up, with a transport too it is over 500, All the tough units in tourney armies like Nob Bikes, Space Marine Bikes, Plague Marines and AV 11+ vehicles and dreads just laugh at it...)

What? 300 points? More like 153 points and then a Waveserpent with whatever you want on it. I mean, seriously, they're not all that bad: 18 BS4 and 4 BS5 S4 shots at 18 inches with the option to assault. You're right. That's just horrible and it won't kill hordes like it's supposed to do. No, wait, that's exactly what they do, and they're scoring! Besides, while everybody wants a unit of Striking Scorpions to cut through hordes of guys, the fact is that they're just one unit that doesn't score and will draw loads of fire. Not to say that SS are bad, just that DA are good anti-horde for cheap, are innocuous, and can claim objectives. Not bad! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/678763.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/678763.page GMT Dire Avengers!?

Darkreaver55 wrote:Ah, I didn't know they had 18" of reach. That doom/guide bladestorm will account for just about anything, then, except jump infantry and bikes. If those aren't eliminated entirely, they'll be able to lock up those DAs until something else can be brought to bear. If they have room to hop back into their serpent to retreat and reload, though, they'll be unholy terrors.

Yes, they are truly agents of Phase-out.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/679105.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/679105.page GMT Dire Avengers!? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/679150.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/679150.page GMT Dire Avengers!? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/679215.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/679215.page GMT Dire Avengers!? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/679219.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/679219.page GMT Dire Avengers!?
Pair them with a unit of Scorps.

Attach a Doom & Fortune Farseer or even Eldrad and you have a very effective block of units that can pretty much take on most things for under 500pts.

It excells in lower point games where there is a lack of AP3 and under firepower.

Just use the scorps with eldrad as a shield for the avengers.

As long as Eldrad can get fortune on the Scorps (and Avengers) this unit is remarkably resilient. Plus he can soak up the odd AP3 or under hit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/679805.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/679805.page GMT Dire Avengers!?

Xenith wrote:gives them all an extra shot, at the expense of not shooting next turn - which is no loss, as they should either be in combat or jumping back into a transport.

Why does everyone put Dire Avengers in CC? They have no CCW (except for their catapult) so they only get one attack, and they get smeared quite easily in comparison to other units more designed for CC (Stiking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, etc). It seems to me that the DAs are better designed for mid-range shooting, with the plus of being a troop choice.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/680607.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/680607.page GMT Dire Avengers!?

tuatha1337 wrote:

Xenith wrote:gives them all an extra shot, at the expense of not shooting next turn - which is no loss, as they should either be in combat or jumping back into a transport.

And THAT's the reason why I never take Bladestorm, despite the fact that people think it's super great. I'd rather have 40 shots over two turns than 30 over two turns. However, if you have an exarch with diresword/spistol combo, 4 init 6 power weapon attacks that hit most things on 3 can be pretty good coupled with Doom!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/680622.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/680622.page GMT Dire Avengers!? Take two or three of these units for Fish of Serpent tactics.
I often let the Avengers in the Serpent until the endgame.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/684271.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/684271.page GMT Dire Avengers!?

tuatha1337 wrote:

Xenith wrote:gives them all an extra shot, at the expense of not shooting next turn - which is no loss, as they should either be in combat or jumping back into a transport.

Do the mathhammer once on shoot followed by charge. Dire Avengers are better than scorpions or banshees against many targets.

Defend cuts opponents down to size. Throw in a doom on the target and add a shimmer shield and PW and see what the difference is.
No they are not going to out-do banshees or scorpions for damage done in CC but they can walk away where the scorpions or banshees will be a shadow squad at the end of it.

Might be boring as heck but a doom seer and an army of predominantly dire avengers is not too shabby.

Say you focus on a squad of 10 vangard vets with stormshield and PW. (Pricey I know.)

Doom the target.

10 S 4 shots from banshees or scorpions - 7 hits 6 wounds 2 dead
27 S 4 shots from dire avengers - 18 hit 13.5 wounds 4.5 dead

40 S4 scorpion attacks, 20 hit, 15 wound 5 dead
30 S3 Banshee attacks, 15 hit, 3 dead.
20 S3 DA attacks, 10 hit, 5 wound, 2 dead.

3 to 5 Vets left on the table... That is 3-5 hits on scorpions or banshees, killing half that so 2- 3 kills.
Against DA they only get 2 hits, so about 1 wound and 1/3 of the time the avenger makes the shield save.

So end of combat 7 - 8 scorpions or 9-10 dire avengers against 3 vets still standing or 7-8 banshees against 5 vets.

Do it against 30 orks. The scorpions will cause the most damage but will lose about half. Banshees would lose their shirt.
Dire avengers will do about the same casualties as the scorpions but with most in the fire phase, they don't get the add-on casualties of combat resolution. On the other hand, with defend they will average losing about 2 or 3 avengers.

I did this simple not figuring all the specials on the exarchs. Exarchs may add 1 final casualty to the mix on average but not all that earth shattering.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/684294.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/684294.page GMT Dire Avengers!?

DAaddict wrote:
I did this simple not figuring all the specials on the exarchs. Exarchs may add 1 final casualty to the mix on average but not all that earth shattering.

What about the Howling Banshee Exarch with furious charge to the whole squad, S6 power weapon [on charge] and the enemy failing a Ld test and having WS1? Thats not game changing?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/684332.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/684332.page GMT Re:Dire Avengers!? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/684466.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/684466.page GMT Re:Dire Avengers!? IMO. Granted for 5 points why not.

Defend is a guaranteed 1 less attack. You just have to be content with not dominating the CC just perhaps winning it.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/685285.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/236818/685285.page GMT