http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net CSM codex with the Lost and the Damned shoehorned in and the Legions rules simplified and generalized. I'm pretty sure I made some huge mistakes, but that's what criticism's for.


Feuds of the gods: All marked Headquarters choices in a Chaos army must have the same Mark of Chaos.

Cult Troops: Units with the Cult Troops special rule may be purchased as troops choices in any army that includes a marked Chaos Champion or Daemon Prince devoted to the same Chaos God.

Daemonic troops: Units with the Daemonic Troops special rule may be purchased as troops choices in any army that inludes a marked Headquarters choice devoted to the same Chaos God or to Chaos Undivided.

Greater daemons are considered to have the mark of their chaos god, the effects already included in the profile.


unintended consequence: Word Bearers can not use greater daemons because armies devoted to Chaos Undivided can't be led by the champion of any single god. These rules also leave Night Lords, Alpha Legion, and Iron Warriors out since I haven't come up with any benefit to going undivided other than access to daemonic troops.


HQ: Arch Heretic, Chaos Champion (options can make chaos lords or sorcerors), Greater Daemons, Daemon prince
Elites: Mutants, witches, cult troops (thousand sons, plaguemarines, khorne berzerkers, noise marines), daemonic troops (horrors, plaguebearers, daemonettes, bloodletters), terminators, chosen, Dreadnought, possessed
Troops: Renegades, Heretics, chaos space marines
Fast attack: traitor sentinel, biker gang, raptors, chaos bikers, flesh hounds, fiends, flamers, nurglings,
Heavy support: Defiler, Soulgrinder, Leman Russ, Land Raider, vindicator, Predator, Obliterators, Havocs, renegade sapper squad


Dedicated transport: Ground Car. AV 9/9/9 fast, open topped, transport. Weapons: 1 laspistol, BS2, fired from the driver's position. Transport capacity 10. 15 points. May be purchased as a dedicated transport for renegade and heretic units.

Ground truck: Same as above but larger. 20 points, transport capacity 20

The ground car is a civilian vehicle taken for service to the dark gods. Ground cars often have such amenities as seats, roofs, and even doors removed to allow more passengers to climb in or cling on to it. These ridiculously unsafe vehicles are usually abandoned shortly after they have delivered their passengers to the battlefield.

Special rule, Hang On! A unit that took a ground car or ground truck as a dedicated transport may deploy embarked in it even if the unit's size exceeds the vehicle's transport capacity. If the unit does not disembark in its first movement phase after being deployed then the player must select models to remove as casualties until the unit's size no longer exceeds the transport's capacity.


Heretics
Squad of 10-30, conscript stats, may be led by a demagogue with better Ld and weapons options
Weapons: An assortment of weapons that count as a laspistol and close combat weapon regardless of what the model is carrying.

Renegades - Infantry platoon, probably with different weapons options and leadership rules. I have an idea that much of the LatD side of the codex should have access to demo charges.

The Arch Heretic should have something nice going for him considering his competition. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237260/676717.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237260/676717.page GMT
1. The marks. I'd say let Chaos Undivided count as unmarked for the purposes of HQ choices. That way, Wordbearers, Night Lords, etc. CAN get daemons and so forth, and better represents the Undivided theme of working with other forces of Chaos."BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!" "Yes, yes, in due time. If you'll wait just a moment, the bloodshed will be even greater..."

2. Leaving out half of the Legions is a rather large setback for the inclusion of renegades. No doubt a solution will come out in time, but it's definitely something to remember.

3. As you mentioned, the Arch heretic/Renegades in general are going to need some cool stuff in order to make them seem interesting beside the marines.

4. I'm going to return to a point I made earlier, with some suggestions. I personally have always been a bigger fan of the Undivided Legions than the specific God-Devoted ones.

Idea 1: it's a bit messy, but perhaps models with Chaos undivided may take "Brands" to represent their actual affiliation. (Or make these Brands separate marks entirely.)
Such as:
Brand of Iron: Models bearing the brand of Iron possess superhuman endurance and patience. They have the Stubborn rule.
Brand of Night: Models with this Brand are renowned for their subtle strikes. They have the Night Vision and Stealth USRs.
Brand of Secrets: The warriors bearing this brand have already expected their foes movements. They have the Infiltrate USR.
Brand of Glory: All of Chaos is to be revered, is the credo of those who bear this brand. Their trust in the Gods allows them to re-roll Morale tests (Standard undivided)

Another suggestion, though I don't expect it to be accepted, is a modified version of the new SM special character system, wherein the HQ choices affect your entire Army list. Call it the "Warband" system. Few Chaos Lords are willing to trust other lords, and as such form their own armies, with separate styles.
Have selecting an HQ with a Mark affect his Warband (something like 2 Troops, an Elite and a Fast attack or heavy Support choice.)
Something like:
Night Lords
A Warband led by a Lord with the Mark of Night has the following options:
They may take raptors as either of their troops choices. Any normal marines gain Fleet.
Any sergeant may take a pair of lightning claws at 25 points, at the cost of their normal weapons.
They may only take havocs or sappers as an HS choice.

Of course, these are just my suggestions.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237260/676783.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237260/676783.page GMT 1. HQs that enable a Cult Troop also enable Daemonic Troops of the same god and disallow all opposed cult and daemonic troops (except as elites, of course).
2. A Greater Daemon enables its own Daemonic Troops but does not by itself enable Cult Troops and disallows all opposed cult and daemonic troops. Parts of this do not work ideally.
3. Any undivided HQ enables all Daemonic Troops but disallows all Cult Troops.

The tricky bit is enabling all Daemonic troops in an army that also includes a Greater Daemon without also allowing the player to take both Khorne Berzerkers and Daemonettes as troops at the same time. Or maybe I'm just being too fussy.

edit:Change Feuds as suggested, all marked HQ choices must bear the mark of the same god or of Chaos Undivided.

Change Cult troops to work when the army includes a chaos champion or DP and all HQ choices bear the appropriate mark.

That might work better. The current weather conditions are ill suited for deep thinking, but I'm pretty sure that allows Greater Daemons to appear in an Undivided army without allowing what I was trying to disallow. I wonder if there should be some benefit to leaving the HQ unmarked, and if so, what it should be. Perhaps link that to veteran skills.

2&3 acknowledged.

4. Similar to the inkling of an idea I had about using some sort of veteran skills to represent the other undivided legions. It has some promise.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237260/676835.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237260/676835.page GMT
I think youre getting caught up in this whole "every chaos god hates every other chaos god" thing. While they dont get on they will tolerate each other if its in their best interest (appart from the whole khorne/slaanesh, nurgle/tzneetch thing). At the moment you are just imposing penalties for not much benifit. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237260/687141.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237260/687141.page GMT