<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Tau - tier 3 army?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Tau - tier 3 army? KPs, outflanking, and cover saves really seem to bone them along with daemon armies and what looks to be some really powerful IG stuff coming soon. So what do the Tau generals on the forum use to counter all these new threats?

I ask because I've started purchasing a new Tau force. Although I'm not really planning on going to any gladiators or 'ard boyz in the near future, I'd like to know what the basic fundamentals of Tau list construction are.

Right now I'm thinking it probably has to be something along these lines:

-At least 6 railguns as alot of the top-tier lists throw a ton of priority targets at you quickly.
-Probably 2 squads of pathfinders for markerlight support
-2 squads to FWs to use the finder fishes
-fish o fury is dead. firewarriors as marker support?
-2+ largish squads of kroot to charge block, provide bodies, and provide deep strike defense by forcing daemons and such to land farther away. OTOH, small squads are probably nice to die quickly and expose the enemy to shooting
-missile pods, flamers, and fusion are in. Flamers for cover, missiles for rhino/chimeras, and fusion for land raider/nob/oblit popping.
-plasma rifles aren't as cool as they used to be.
-monat suits, piranhas, and small squads are easy kps
- true LOS makes JSJ more problematic. Making stealth suits more viable?

Ninja Tau seems cool, but frankly, it strikes me as an experienced commander's strategy. To the layman's eye, it seems you need a firm grasp of exactly what each unit is capable of to pull it off.

In vague generalities, the vision of my army is something like

Shas'el w/ 2 bodyguards - probably aggressively equipped to go tank/TEQ hunting
3 Deathrain suits w/flamers and marker drones
2x6 stealth suits w/ fusion blaster?
2x8 FW w/ 'ui and bonding knife
3x10 Kroot or 2x15 kroot
2x6 Pathfinders w/ fishes
2x3 broadsides (maybe splurging and putting plasma rifles here as rifles combined with railguns make nice termie killers.
1 Railhead to add mobile railgun and submunition

am I way off or on the right track? I'd also really love some feedback on the big problems facing Tau in today's meta game and how (or if) you overcome them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/683637.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/683637.page GMT Re:Tau - tier 3 army?
As a newish Tau player and an oldish guard player, and a really active competitive minded 40k player, I've got tons of thoughts on this.

As far as playing conventional tau against a 'hard guard' list. I imagine it to feel like you are playing with 1500 points against their 1750. Turn one will consist of a single shield drone getting killed from a broadside team and then them getting hit with a weaken resolve. A hydra battery can keep a hammerhead shaken all game until it finally blows off the railgun, or until the veterans and CCS get into melta range of it.

But that is just guard...

Lash/oblits seems pretty hard to face down with conventional tau, rail guns would fare pretty well for as long as they could stay alive, but with 9 deep striking multi-meltas, how long is that?

horde orks seem pretty impossible as well. My first game at the vegas GT with my ork army was against a tau player that new orks were good, and he built an army specifically to beat horde orks. He played as best he could, and I got a 20-0 massacre. I'm not bragging here. My ork list was really an auto-pilot design.

You can beat space marines with conventional tau, that is good. Sisters of battle seem pretty tough to face if they can get their exorcists on your suits.


My guard list would certainly fear a tau army that focused on unconventional deployment (ninja tau basically) Certain trouble tanks can get spot killed by DSing suits, outflanking kroot can glance the hell out of stationary rear armor 10 tanks, and stealth suits would perform well outflanking with fusion guns. IG mechanized deployments are shallow and wide, stealth teams coming on the flanks would be out of visibility for the majority of the IG army after they arrived. Devilfish would be toast, but not before they move into position, hopefully sticking around to screen LOS to firewarriors and pathfinders.

I'm of the opinion that ninja tau gives you the best chance of winning hard core competitive games. But it isn't some sort of monster list that is unbeatable. It isn't really all that hard to play if that is whats holding you back, and its really fun to learn.

If you were going to run conventional tau without a pos relay, the only real change i'd make from what you can find here on dakka is that broadsides might just be too vulnerable to weaken resolve to include anymore. I don't think 3 railheads is enough anti-tank, so that would mean including something else, preferably a vehicle. Maybe a 3-4 piranha fusion team would be called for. Be sure to include flechettes on them.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/683697.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/683697.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
Without any psychic defences, low leadership, and the changes to TLOS in 5th edition Tau can have a very hard time. Tau can do alright when tailored against an army, however, the problem is that in most tournaments you are required to play the same list in each game.

Suddenly my gunline has no real defence from the duel lash or I don't have enough kroot to deal with a few units of outflanking genestealers. Maybe my suits have the wrong equipment or I took broadsides and am now facing an ork horde.

Tau have no real answer for elite hand to hand. Also, with the ability to charge a number of enemy units I've seen half my army get beaten in combat in the 2nd or third turn thanks to Bikers, jetbikes, or fleeting nids.


I think Shep hit the nail on the head. Playing Tau right now feels like playing a 1500 point list against a 1750 point list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/683766.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/683766.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army? IG hydras (in that order), you will need flechettes and d-pods on them. This will draw fire away from your railheads, who can then take out straggle tanks, or put down pie plates, as necessary.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/683982.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/683982.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
3 railheads
shas'el w/pos relay (bodyguard?)
stealthsuits
crisis teams
lots of kroot
pathfinders
1 squad of fire warriors

Am I on the right track here?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684074.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684074.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684098.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684098.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
This build works very well and seems to pull the entire enemy army into that area to try and kill the tough squad. The players I've played against can't seem to help it. They head towards the broadsides where ever they are castled and this leaves them exposed to my reserves as they come in.

The only downside I've noted with ninja Tau is that it means the game must go to turn 5 to win. This seems like a no brainer unless you get that guy for your opponent. The guy who feels like he will lose to this build so he plays really slow. In tourny's with their time limits this can be a problem.

Played an ork player who moved his mob so slow that we only got to the middle of turn 2 in a two hour game. I was very polite, quietly mentioned this to the people running the tourny and nothing. They called it a draw. I was still polite but you could have fried an egg on my forehead at that point. About an hour after this, one of the organizers overheard him say that he did it on purpose. They awarded me the win at that point but if he had kept his mouth shut he'd still have a draw. Keep in mind this was a local tourny run somewhat loosely. It is still a drawback in my eyes.

@Shep- Again, thank you for introducing me to this tactic. It is going to help keep the Tau fun for another year or two. Just have to not try to be Ninja around the IG fleet officer.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684110.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684110.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
Sgt_Scruffy wrote:Am I on the right track here?


Yep.

focusedfire wrote:...I join in an Ethereal to make them fearless and sheildrone the heck out of them.


NICE! I hate you now! Just when i was all set up to weaken resolve you off the table you figure out a great spot to stick an ethereal and screw me up! haha, that's tech Focused. really tech.


focusedfire wrote:@Shep- Again, thank you for introducing me to this tactic. It is going to help keep the Tau fun for another year or two. Just have to not try to be Ninja around the IG fleet officer.


You are welcome, and the fleet officer really doesn't have any effect on the reserves rolls. I guess if you wanted to turn the relay off on turn 4 you might not get as many guys. He screws with outflanking by dropping you getting what you want from 66% to 44% not really a big deal. You were probably playing expecting to not flank the side you wanted if you are a realist like me

And I hate to post about another website on a dakka post, but I've been getting a lot of credit lately for talking about ninja tau. I'm glad myself and a couple other guys on dakka were able to get the word out, but credit must be paid to GoneFishin' over on tau-online.org As far as I can tell he was the first guy to really start posting about it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684291.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684291.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684308.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684308.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684700.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/684700.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army? Makes me feel really dumb but thanks, It is how one learns sometimes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/685469.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/685469.page GMT Re:Tau - tier 3 army?

My favorate 2 wargear items are the airburst frag projector and the failsafe detonator! With any form of template weapon, if your hitting at least 6 targets, you should wound at least 1 regardless of enemy saves (unless his toughness is higher than 6 ;3)

Also... Can't go wrong with disruption pods, stick them on anything you got armored (if only you could place them on your suits lol). Don't forget the awsomeness of multi-trackers (can shoot as if a fast tank meaning 12" and shoot your main weapon) and target locks (Can fire weapons at different sqauds eg - Railgun from hammerhead wipes out a tank, then using target lock to fire burst cannons/SMS's at another closer target) on tanks too, very handy

If your into ninja tau tactics, you could try a pathfinder sqaud with their devilfish armed with a marker beacon (Reroll scatter die within line of sight). If it survives upto turn 5, then it will make sure your "ninja's" don't have any mishaps ;p


yes... i'm most likely a noob with these common tactics so go ahead and flame *preps a shield drone*]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/686970.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/686970.page GMT Re:Tau - tier 3 army?
IG is the first true shooty army written for 5ed, and it looks like GW is trying to help shooty armies compete (ironic that Orks probably had the best shooty army before the new IG).

Tau are suffering and are in real need now of a new codex (almost as badly as IG needed it). Tau can still win games, but they are at a disadvantage. In addition, I can not see them standing much of a chance against a hard IG list. Between the Choir, Colossus/Griffion, All the AV14, Tau will find themselves easily outgunned and unable to take out IGs armor.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/686973.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/686973.page GMT Re:Tau - tier 3 army?
A terminator is about 35-45 points, right? that's a 2+ armor save, a 5+ invun save, storm bolter and a melee weapon, most likely power fists. For that price, i could only get sadly a 25-35 point crisis suit with NO gear and a 3+ armor save. Throw 20 pts away for a plasma rifle, throw 12 for a missile pod.

That's 52-62 points gone just so he can go toe to toe with a terminator... oh wait, you have to take 1 more item which will most likely be a multi-tracker for 5 losy points, that comes to 57-67 points.

So in total, for the 57-67 average price range, we get a 3+ armor save jump infanty with 2 wounds, 2 powerful range attacks and 12" total movement.... at a lost of completely fethed melee abilities. Oh yea.. not to forget that the BS of a crisis suit is 3 (not including targeting array for the team leader) so a 50-50 chance of your range attacks hitting (unless augmented with markerlight power )

On the other hand, we got our terminator friend with 4 everything (other than wounds and attacks) giving him a 66% chance to hit our crisis suit buddy and storm bolters giving him assault 2.... and with a power fist.. pretty much one-hit OK's the suit.. toughness 4 sucks.... and power weapons are crappy! Grrrr >.> Sqaud sizes don't help at all.. but then again the tau really don't use or have numbers.

If only i had a copy of imperial armor issue 3 with the heavy weapon drones... *cries* Also.. i saw models from a GW open day with tau crisis suits weilding power blades of some sort... please hoping they don't add that in the codex unless it's farsight suits only...
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687065.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687065.page GMT Re:Tau - tier 3 army?
Shep wrote: ...Turn one will consist of a single shield drone getting killed from a broadside team and then them getting hit with a weaken resolve...


Broadside teams vastly outrange Psyker squads & can eat alot of fire with 4+ invunerables.

Shep wrote: ...A hydra battery can keep a hammerhead shaken all game...


Just untrue. A hammerhead, properly equipped, is vastly more mobile than a hydra battery & vs front armor you will only shake it per full volley 0.75 of the time. Thats not a surety. Oh wait, I forgot to add in the cover save. The hydra's only remove cover saves from vehicles travelling flat-out & bikers turboboosting. So thats 0.375 every turn of full shooting. & point wise full Hydra battery > any type of hammerhead

Shep wrote:stealth suits would perform well outflanking with fusion guns. IG mechanized deployments are shallow and wide, stealth teams coming on the flanks would be out of visibility for the majority of the IG army after they arrived.


Infiltrating stealth teams are just better all round. Even more so vs an armie that can modify reserve rolls & deploy so much stuff. With JSJ'in they can blare away with burst cannons then move back to 24" where its quite likely for any given section of shooting to simply be wasted. With mechenised bits, it may take longer to do but moving up into 12" range, firing melta, then moving back to 18" is still not bad concidering the volume of fire is lower with mechenised lists.

I think Ionheads in tandem with a team of maxed out railsuits will work well as there are going to be more vehicles on the field. Oh & 4bs 4 burst cannons will put just over 2 glancing/penning hits on AV10.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687096.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687096.page GMT Re:Tau - tier 3 army?
Superscope wrote:
A terminator is about 35-45 points, right? that's a 2+ armor save, a 5+ invun save, storm bolter and a melee weapon, most likely power fists. For that price, i could only get sadly a 25-35 point crisis suit with NO gear and a 3+ armor save. Throw 20 pts away for a plasma rifle, throw 12 for a missile pod.

That's 52-62 points gone just so he can go toe to toe with a terminator... oh wait, you have to take 1 more item which will most likely be a multi-tracker for 5 losy points, that comes to 57-67 points.

So in total, for the 57-67 average price range, we get a 3+ armor save jump infanty with 2 wounds, 2 powerful range attacks and 12" total movement.... at a lost of completely fethed melee abilities. Oh yea.. not to forget that the BS of a crisis suit is 3 (not including targeting array for the team leader) so a 50-50 chance of your range attacks hitting (unless augmented with markerlight power )

This was not an issue in 4th, but its a big one in 5th. Crisis suits are the backbone of any Tau army, and they are crap compared to terminators for 150% the price.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687128.page GMT Re:Tau - tier 3 army?
Liquidwulfe wrote:
This was not an issue in 4th, but its a big one in 5th. Crisis suits are the backbone of any Tau army, and they are crap compared to terminators for 150% the price.


Surely its " Firewarriors are the backbone of any Tau army"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687133.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687133.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army? UK GT in 4th ed, where they were quite a few tau armies, there were only about three at the final this year. I managed to qualify with them but got a bit bored of playing them.

The way I found to use them in 5th ed was to use a 'tesco car park'. At least three tanks with the crisis behind, floating around in a flanking manevour shooting the biggest threat. It does suffer with 5 turns, why they had to lower random game length to that i don't understand.

Personally I still favour the fireknife setup with 3 in a squad but make sure one of them is a deathrain. So i end up with a team leader with BS4 fireknife, one guy with BS3 fireknife and a BS3 deathrain. Throw in a couple of shield drones and its quite survivable (although >200pts). Then a commander with AFP (as people love orks and kroot in woods), couple of railheads, some broadsides, a squad of pathfinders and a couple of squads of kroot and that's 1500pts.

KPs isn't that bad. I have 10 in that list which ive found is about average and they're fairly hard to kill (4+ save on all the tanks, suits hide etc). Cover isn't a problem as you have pathfinders and the AFP and a lot of shots elsewhere. The only real problem I have is claiming objectives with the random game length. Kroot don't survive too long to protracted combats and FW don't do jack.

I've never really tried ninja tau though. To be honest I'd rather play at least 5 turns with my whole army than having it all turn up on for a couple of turns.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687196.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687196.page GMT Re:Tau - tier 3 army?
Razerous wrote:Broadside teams vastly outrange Psyker squads & can eat alot of fire with 4+ invunerables


If only tables weren't 48" wide. rages beyond 48" are for theory hammer only. I can move my chimera up from 12" deployment 6", and fire the weaken resolve 36" for a reach of 54". If you were farther than that, I can move my chimera 12" spin around, get out 2.75" and fire 36" for a total reach from my table edge of 62.75". I'll let you make all of your saves except one on a drone. As soon as that one drone from a 2 man 2 drone team dies, your unit is testing morale on a 2 LD.


Razerous wrote:Just untrue. A hammerhead, properly equipped, is vastly more mobile than a hydra battery & vs front armor you will only shake it per full volley 0.75 of the time. Thats not a surety. Oh wait, I forgot to add in the cover save. The hydra's only remove cover saves from vehicles travelling flat-out & bikers turboboosting. So thats 0.375 every turn of full shooting. & point wise full Hydra battery > any type of hammerhead


Hydras get 9 hits, around one and a half sixes, you fail your cover, you aren't shooting. But the point is pretty moot. I'll just put my hydras on your devilfish, and I'll take my own cover saves on the hammerhead. Once it poistions itself for side shots, I'll thrust out a CCS, 'bring it down' = dead hammerhead. Its a single BS4 shot pre turn. My 12 tank mech army can weather that as it picks off the rest of the tau army.

I'm not saying the Tau codex can't put fear into new guard. I'm just saying that lining up across from them with a tau gunline (mechanized or not) is just suicide, your long range fire power is overcosted or too vulnerable to IG tricks.

However, tau have a ridiculous amount of alternate deployment units, and positional relay protects you from most of the fleet officers penalty. He'll only affect the outflank roll. And he'll only take a 66% chance down to 44%.

The closer you can reliably get with fusion blasters to his key units, and the later in the game your troops show up, the better off you are. pos relay is the best way to do those things.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687542.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687542.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
Perhaps next edition will see the integration of a new race of pariahs to help them out. You can definitely make a friendly/competitive list, but I don't think you can really do a "my life depends on winning this game" list. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687638.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687638.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
I join the Positional relay equipped Shas'el and the ethereal to a team of two broadsides and then shield drone the Heck out of them?

Same effect as before but with a little more tactical flexibility. I would of course equip the Shas'el with Iridium armour. Maybe make the rest of the load out Plas, Miss, Hw Target lock, HW Drone controller, along with the positional relay.

I think this would make for a decent Ninja Tau lead unit along with a screen of something to help keep them out of HtH for an extra turn.

IMHO, I think Ninja Tau will be the best way of dealing with the new IG from the Tau armies veiwpoint and this style build may keep them close to competitive.

How do you see this holding up in 5th ed?


Edited for sentence structure]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687652.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
I think Broadsides + Ethereal + Shield Drones, 2 Hammerheads, 2 Pathfinder units (6-8) strong, and Crisis Suits with Missile Pods, Plasma, and Multi-trackers are the best core of the army. Add a Commander with Airburst Frag Projector, and some firewarriors. With firewarriors, either go all out, get a 10-12 strong unit to hide in a fish until ready to jump out and blast someone, or just get 6 of them and have them never leave the fish (and then get some kroot for your other troop choice). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687669.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687669.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army? IG is a hammerhead or broadsides walking on turns 2, 3, and 4 then an objective grab.IG almost certain can cover all objectives so you just cover all objectives with broadsides and hammerhead, then kill the guardsmen on one objective and capture it for the win.

Don't bother with ethereals, if they have psykers deal with them with the hammerhead first. Oh and the command squad. I think bodyguards are the way to go with ninja tau, makes the unit very tough to kill and has plenty of firepower.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687728.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687728.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
focusedfire wrote:Shep and Olanari-How does this sound,

I join the Positional relay equipped Shas'el and the ethereal to a team of two broadsides and then shield drone the Heck out of them?

Same effect as before but with a little more tactical flexibility. I would of course equip the Shas'el with Iridium armour. Maybe make the rest of the load out Plas, Miss, Hw Target lock, HW Drone controller, along with the positional relay.

I think this would make for a decent Ninja Tau lead unit along with a screen of something to help keep them out of HtH for an extra turn.

IMHO, I think Ninja Tau will be the best way of dealing with the new IG from the Tau armies veiwpoint and this style build may keep them close to competitive.

How do you see this holding up in 5th ed?


I think you're on the right track. Certainly weaken resolve proof, and long range shooting proof, from any army. As long as you are keenly aware where the lash is, and you either screen for charges or draw assaulters into a side charge by outflanking kroot, then it should live for a long long time.


Alternately, a deathrain bodyguard and a cheap pos relay battery like onlainari suggested might be alright as well, easier to take out, weaken resolve bait, but not 350 points
I'm going to try it Focused... I'll let you know how it works out. and keep these good tau ideas coming!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687965.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/687965.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
I just liked the broadsides for the sheer number of shots they can absorb and the heavy tank killing ability.

If your run the broadsides in a DoW scenario try your best to go second and then just deploy the Broadsides and one screening team. It's first turn so your not going to see much any way and this compensates for the lack of A.S.S.


Edit spelling]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/688760.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/688760.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
Have fun..... and you didn't even need the Hammerheads....


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/688788.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/688788.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
mikeguth wrote:Start with 9 Broadside Battlesuits with railguns, add 9 Crisis Suits with plasma rifles, missile pods and multitrackers, add 8 Pathfinders in a devilfish with Burst cannon and smart Missiles, 2 of those. Add a unit of Kroot and a couple of small Firewarrior units.....

Have fun..... and you didn't even need the Hammerheads....


That army is extremely costly points wise. Each Broadside you take is 80 points, so that's 720 points gone, crisis suits with that config are 62 pts a pop, 82 if you take a team leader + target array/bodyguards and 122 for a HQ with said items. If your taking 3 of them with targeting arrays then you would pay 536+122 pts as well.. that's 1378 gone in a flash. You havn't even taken troop requirements yet..

You would have some execllent firepower however, and with a large amount of anti-armor at the rear you should be safe... for the first few turns.

Horde armies are gunna love you.. hammerheads share a very good balance of direct and indirect firepower, while broadsides are for when you want someone killed. If you only take broadsides as heavy units, then your gunna get salughtered by a horde army... i can see it now

- enemy Outflank's/deep strike's on critical turn....
- locks broadside sqauds in CC
- other units take down what's out and about on the field.

It doesn't matter if the suits can defend themselves in CC or not. You've lost a large amount of firepower in one very quick assault.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/689066.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/689066.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army? SMS, and each squad pumps out 12 shots no LOS needed - not that that's a whole lot, but it's at least equal to two pie plates most of the time.

You're right, it's expensive. That's why the Troops only cost about 260 points, total - min FW @60, 2 Kroot/hound units @ about 100. Maybe an additional 100 if you want a devilfish. Add the HQ and pathfinders, that'll be about 1750-1850.

It is a nasty firepower list that you shouldn't dismiss out of hand, and one that will rock many armies. Beatable, sure, but not easily.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/690294.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/690294.page GMT Re:Tau - tier 3 army?
Shep wrote:
I'm not saying the Tau codex can't put fear into new guard. I'm just saying that lining up across from them with a tau gunline (mechanized or not) is just suicide, your long range fire power is overcosted or too vulnerable to IG tricks.


I'll say it. Tau have no chance what so ever vs. the new guard codex. Weaken resolve is just as broken as the old Fear the Darkness was against us. Hell, it's probably worse. FOD was only -2.


As for Ninja Tau. Once it becomes obvious what the tau player is doing, just dont go for the bait. Just trade long range shots until the soft underside comes in around turn 4-5. Then let them have it. The way to counter Ninja Tau is to protect yourself from DS suits. Right now its a decent gimic because its not what people expect. But it can be counter easily by just not loosing your cool, don't get drawn out of position and waiting for the hammer to come in then deal with it. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/690472.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/690472.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
This build allows you to bring an overwhelming amount of firepower to bear upon the objectives that you really need.

That combined with deepstrikers challenging back objectves makes it difficult/almost impossible to bring enough firepower to bear upon enough of the squads to clear them out.

The Tau are fairly durable. Try wiping the entire army out in 1 turn. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/690712.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/690712.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
Hammerheads have to come in on your deployment zone. That means straight on more or less, especially if your playing with enough terrain. Cross table diagnal shots should be really limited. If the other guy is running armor he just has to line up in train formation and he gets a 3+ cover save for those tanks.

Smart placement of objectives also help. Stick them in cover and just camp there. Worse if the other guy brings armor. You gotta bust the transport then take out the unit inside. Devilfish with firewarriors only have an effective 26" range on the turn they come in. Just hang back 28" and all you have to worry about is a single burst cannon. Against armor 11+ you can't pen.

Pathfinders are not doing anything the turn they come in, if they disenbark they are dead next turn.

Just like we have said in a lot of other threads, most other armies can out shoot tau. Proper preperations for the two turns that they will have will really hurt.

I'm not putting down ninja tau. I'm really not, but its not a sure thing, once people know what it is, it will easily be cracked because it just a tactic/deployment issue. Its not like magically all your stuff gains a 2+ armor save and T6 and becomes super killy or uber hard to kill. Just keep your calm and know whats coming. Play the objective, not the other guys army, don't get baited. You said try wiping the entire army out in 1 turn. That goes for you too. Tau can't table an opponent in two turns, but with proper planning the other guy can make it really hard for Tau to get enough objectives to win.

Ninja Tau actually works best in KP missions because you are only giving the enemy 2 turns to do massive damage. Unfortunatly the Tau can hemmorage KP really easily. Especially when the enemy has almost all its weapons around for when the bulk of the army does show up.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/690734.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/690734.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
My Broadside Ethereal anchor Has consistently chewed up two heavy Tanks and a transport a game.

Ninja Tau is the place to run your pirahnas, also. As a matter of personal experience, this list frees you from trying to run a spam list. I run some cheap deepstrikers, a railhead, an Ionhead, Pirahnas, Pathfinders to help with pinpoint deepstrikes, 2 squads of firewarriors and a kroot squad. So far the anchor unit has survived everytime and there is only 1 heavy support left by the end of turn 4.

I have been telling my opponents what I'm doing and so far the only guaranteed counter that I've seen is for my opponent to stall while in a time limit game.

The way I'm seeing it, from what I've played so far, is that your over estimating the vehicle cover save which would be 4+ BTW and if he goes to ground with to protect his troops they no longer score. The side shots come from having a 60" to 72" ranged gun that allows me to exploit table length for side shots.

Your also over estimating the ability to return fire. The tau come in and kill what is close. It is impossible for other armies to be everywhere on the board, during objective missions, and to be able to bring that kind of firepower against the units coming in. The other armies shorter ranged weapons means a turn of no shooting to get into position.

I'm not saying it is perfect but I am beginning to believe that it is semi-competitive. Please to remember that this is from my personal experience and is IMO only. I still believe that the Tau need a redo for 5th. Ninja Tau will keep me playing them until that redo occurs.

Edit for dropped sentence.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/690750.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/690750.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
focusedfire wrote:
The way I'm seeing it, from what I've played so far, is that your over estimating the vehicle cover save which would be 4+ BTW and if he goes to ground with to protect his troops they no longer score. The side shots come from having a 60" to 72" ranged gun that allows me to exploit table length for side shots.


The train formation is one of the most awesomely broken concepts in 5th edition. You park one vehicle on the butt of a second. If when shooting at a vehicle, if you are in front/side/rear arc of that vehicle, but cannot actually shoot at it (because it is blocked) you are allowed to shoot at the side you can see. However the tank gets a 3+ cover save. So yeah, lists that run a lot of armor use this while moving forward and it sucks rocks.

Also nowhere in the rules (pg. 24 on Go to Ground or pg 90 on scoring units) does it say going to ground removes the scoring ability of a unit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/691345.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/691345.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
You are still wrong about the 3+ cover save. Doesn't say anywhere in the book that vehicles count as fortifications. Does say that wrecked vehicles give 4+ cover though.

Land train is over rated. It is not broken but rather the applied use of real world tactics to the tabletop.

You counter it by popping the right vehicles and the formation becomes choked on its self. This formation has the down-side of only being viable on boards with very little terrain. If they are in dense terrain it becomes to easy to choke their movement by killing key tanks.

If the Tanks are lined up front to back you pop the lead vehicle. If side to side you tag the corner pivot closest to you army. I've never had a problem making someone pay for using this tactic by killing their mobility from chocking their paths of advancement with their own vehicles.

Still- Thanks for pointing out the Gone to ground /pinned still score. It amazes me how many things are still turning up that I've missed.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/691417.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/691417.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
focusedfire wrote:You are still wrong about the 3+ cover save. Doesn't say anywhere in the book that vehicles count as fortifications. Does say that wrecked vehicles give 4+ cover though.


Actually he's right, you're not. Fortifications have nothing to do with the dreaded Choo-Choo train.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/691429.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/691429.page GMT Re:Tau - tier 3 army? BRB, "it may rarely happen that the firing unit cannot see any part of the facing they are in (front, side, rear), but they can still see another facing of the target vehicle. In this case they may take the shot against the facing they can see, but to represent such an extremely angled shot, the vehicle recieves a 3+ cover save."

For the rule in question.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/691454.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/691454.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
The perimeter vehicles will get a best a 4+ cover and with the tactical flexibilty to deploy for clean shots this isn't even really a concern. Land train tactic just doesn't work againt the Ninja tactic.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/692275.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/692275.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
Its also important to note that I'm not talking only 2-3 transports here. More like 6-7 including heavier tanks. With a single broadside unit or even a hammerhead that shows up on turn 3, you will never pop enough before they get where they need to go. And thats it, they are not necessarily trying to get at you, but get to a point just to block you and secure their own position.

Playing against ninja tau is just like planning for second turn. You know he is going to hit you hard in a single turn, but you have 3-4 turns to get into position/find areas of cover, etc.

But your having a good run with it as it is now. Good for you, may your success continue for many many months to come. Seriously, I mean that. But I wouldn't bet on it having quite as big of a factor against the same opponent after about three games. Where I play, there is just too much armor, too much psychic crap, going on where repositioning of units, and units in a hurry is pretty easy to achieve.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/692335.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/692335.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army?
Ya know whats tougher than someone running landtrain? Someone who does it with power of the machine spirit on every bloody vehicle he has.

This guy is the local tourney champ and we split games evenly. His current list runs 3 HS Tanks, 1 tank, 2 land speed squadrons, then his troops in rhinos and razorbacks that comes normally to 3-4 more vehicles.

Says he likes playing me because I come up with new stuff for him to deal with. The important thing is that we split wins vs losses close enough to say the armies are evenly matched.

I do thank you for your good wishes and do return the courtesy with hopes that the game will be fun for you and that you have a long winning streak(Unless we meet in a game, Then its every man for himself).


I do not feel that the Tau are bottom rung. I do feel that they are more and more in need of an update with each new codex though. I, really, hope that GW doesn't hold off until they are bottom rung or at least they won't have to spend years there before the next update.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/692400.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/692400.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army? 1. Seeker missiles are often overlooked. A single squad of pathfinders can, on average, bring 4 if these to bear per turn. pops MEQs, especially high priority ones like Sternguard, Command squad, and Honor guards like nobody's business. Can even glance Land raiders, though that is what your railguns are for.
2. Kroot are point sinks except in very specific circumstances.
Against guard they are good, against other Tau, on small boards they are good. Where they really shine, and I hate to say this because it goes against the fluff, is against Greater Daemons, Terminators, and other super-strong units. You can tie them up for a long time, even if they don't die it gives you time to bring more firepower to bear against them.
3. Mobility Mobility Mobility. It's the name of the game. Bring the Firepower of large parts of your army against the enemy, and then scatter to the four winds when they get too close.
4. Fire warriors. You can never have too many. NEVER.
5. Hammerheads. You can never have too many. NEVER.
actually yes you can. 4 hammerheads is too many, because you only have 3 HS slots.
6. 1 squad of pathfinders is ESSENTIAL. 2 is Ok. 3 is too many.

That's all the advice I have. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/697685.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/697685.page GMT Tau - tier 3 army? IMO.

1)Too expensive for one shot weapons that still give up a cover save and you have to roll twice to hit.

2)Kroot are extremely handy in almost every build I run. For me the key was learning how to run assaulters and using the kroothounds.

3)Pretty much agree with this one. I'd adjust "scattering to the four winds" to following your late game mobility battle plan and using the areas cleared by overwhelming firepower as your lanes of egress.

4)Actually, you can have too many Fire warriors. The Tau need to be a balanced general army. Spam listing just doesn't work as well with them.

5)Two hammerheads with squad of Broadsides is usually optimal.

6)Yes, absolutely agree.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/702005.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/237707/702005.page GMT