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Background: For the most part, I am a "Black Legion" Chaos Space Marine player. I have my various Black Legion lists and I have played a couple Apocalypse games with the Sprue Posse, and I am loving it. I have been wanting to create new armies, but keep them Chaos themed so it fits into story mode for Apocalypse, and I am almost done with my Chaos Renegades detachment (counts as IG), and I was thinking of moving on to Space Marines next. I will eventually do Daemons, but saving that for a future date. By end of year I would like my Apoc force to consist of Abaddon w/ Black Legion force (Done, 2500+ points), Chaos Renegades (IG) (80%, currently at 1500 points), Space Marines (The Pyre), and a contingent of various Daemons... oh and some super -heavies However, I sort of want each army to be able ot function on its own in non-Apoc.

1) So I want to create a Codex: Space Marines army, but theme it Chaos. The fluff gets hard here, but here are my thoughts... (also wanting to use paints other than Black or Brown). I am thinking of using a Renegade Chapter called The Pyre (with a reason to finally use that pot of Macharius Orange Foundation), but I really could roll my own chapter if needed. The background is limited, but what is known is that the Pyre turned Renegade as during the 13th Black Crusade, i think this was around 999.M41. Given they are recent converts, I am thinking this would let me get away with them using the "new" equipment and Codex:Space Marine formation and tactics. So my first question is am I stretching this to far?

2) The an approximation of the list I would like to build..

Commander Varian Fulstar (counts as Vulkan Hes'tan) (190)
3x Dreadnought (MM/HF) w/ Drop Pod (450)
2x 10 Man Tac Squads (F/MM) w/ Rhino (400)
1x 5 Man Scout Squad (not sure if snipers?) w/ Rhino (110)
3x 2 Land Speeders (MM/HF) (480)
2x Predators (AC) (trying to find points for HB sponsons) (120)

1750

The list probably needs some additional tuning, but that pretty close to what I would like, being Semi-competitive, with hopes of making it very competitive with minor tweaks. Not a "new" list by any means.

C&C welcome.



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I'm a huge fan of Dreads with flamers in pods backed up by Vulkan's twinlinking. I've learned that if you really want to bust up a tank though, you need more than 1 shot from a melta. For not too many more points you could have a 5-man Sternguard Squad with 2-4 Combi-Meltas and/or Meltaguns. Now you've got several melta hits on that vehicle and should get several penetrating rolls. A single Combi-Flamer or Heavy Flamer can be sick against some armies.

The fun thing that I've been trying lately is a full Bike Squad. Load it up with Meltaguns x2, a Multi-melta Attack Bike, and a Power Fist just because. Turbo boost can be amazing and Vulkan makes those mobile meltas that much more fun. I'd rather take that at ~310 than the Land Speeders.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239098/702829.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239098/702829.page GMT
I was looking at the bikes, but there has been a huge meta-shift in my local games that reduces the effectiveness of non-fearless, non-mech.... namely IG's Psychic Battle Squads. I'm the TFG in our group that run's the dual lash list so, I can't hate that much

Dark Angels bikers, = fearless, would have been a cool option and I was for a bit thinking "Fallen Angels" Ravenwing list, but I am trying to avoid the darker colors, only because I have painted my fill of dark colors for a bit.

However, I have never ran speeders and I am definitely wary of AV10 vehicle squadrons and understand your reservations. I also definitely agree with your 1 melta not enough Three is not enough sometimes.. boy do I know, I feel like throwing the dice when I get three BS4 meltas on a Rhino and get nothing!

Hmm, I will think more on this and probably propose a list that doesn't use scouts for sure, but I will need to think of what options I have.



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My most effective unit is Vulkan with a 5 man Thunder hammer/ Storm shield Assault terminator unit inside a land raider redeemer. I'd be jumping for joy if I saw your list because almost everything is AV12 or less. I find that lots of players put a ton of firepower into the land raider and don't seem to pay enough attention to the Attack Bikes, Dreadnoughts, and land speeders.

I never run dreadnoughts without extra armor. Unlike a tank, a dread without extra armor also loses effectivness in the assault phase.

I LOVE Multi Melta Attack bikes because of the outflanking rules. However, they can alsohide behind some forms of cover & a rhino if needed.

Scouts can't take Rhinos and with the reduced balistic skills they are pretty weak. Besides, with combat squad abilities you can have 4 scoring units with only 2 tac squads. Plenty at 1750 for me.

So I would drop the scouts and get extra armor for your dreads along with heavy bolter sponors for your preds.


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I am really liking this input, as its actually allowing me to think about a more diverse list, meaning more fun playing and more fun modelling and painting, since it won't just be X of the same thing over and over again.

Crunching the numbers on list alternatives... (i.e. Speeders vs Bikes vs Both and do I make the jump to fit an LRR + TH/SS in there ) Hard decisions. Building and Painting everything from ground up, so very flexible now, but if I get it all painted and change my mind, I might lose it (that said, I will proably change my mind and end up with 3000+ in Space Marines) ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239098/703309.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239098/703309.page GMT
After several box sets from 4th edition as well as one from 5th, I have an abundance of Imperial Space Marines. I have always been a follower of Chaos however, since before the 2nd edition Codex. Huron Blackheart has been an interesting character in Chaos lore (fluff ) since 2nd edition, and since he turned traitor AFTER the heresy, I thought that doing an army representing his piratical traitors using the the new space marine forces would be perfect use of my extra minis. I plan on using Vulkan He'stan's rules as he has both the heavy flamer and a power weapon. I also wanted to use all the special toys that I don't normally have access to as a chaos player, so scouts and landspeeders were a must.

I read the story in the BRB about Huron's seige; The Fall of Vilamus, page 146, and thought that a deep striking force would fit Huron's methods better, so I modified the list to the following. With 2 locater beacons on the scout bikes (with their infiltrate and scout rules) my first 2 drop pods could be pretty much land where ever I wanted them to come in. With the teleport homers on the two scout squads, the terminaters would have even more options.
2000 pt list.
HQ
Vulkan 190
ELITE
5 Termis w/ assult cannon 230
5 Termis w/ Heavy Flamer 205
FAST ATTACK
2 Landspeeders w/ 2 multimelta & 1 heavy flamer 130
5 Scout Bikers w/ locater beacon, clustermines & powersword 160
5 Scout Bikers w/ locater beacon, clustermines & powersword 160
TROOPS
10 Tac Marines w/ flamer & multi melta w/ drop pod 205
10 Tac Marines w/ flamer & multi melta w/ drop pod 205
10 Tac Marines w/ flamer & multi melta w/ drop pod 205
8 Scouts with sniper rifles, camo cloaks & teleport homer 153
8 Scouts with sniper rifles, camo cloaks & teleport homer 153
No Heavy

Now I have gotten some comments about not taking assault terminators for the thunder hammers, but I figures that since you can't assault the turn that you deep strike, that having the fire (pun intended) power would be more useful.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239098/703837.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239098/703837.page GMT
I would consider making the list more mobile armour. Dropping 1 dreadnought w/pod and 1 predator for some assault termis and a pimp ride (read landraider redeemer) and put Vulckan in with them, just like Asugradinwa said. Maybe replace scouts with a small tac squad with razorback maybe. Also put in a Vindicator instead of a predator. It does a lot more damage. Do you really want to pay 60 pts for 1 autocanon?

Something similar to this mght work for you:
1724
HQ
Vulkan He'stan 190
ELITE
5 Assult termis 200
Landraider redemer w/ multi melta & extra armour 265
FAST ATTACK
Landspeeder w/ multi melta & heavy flamer 70
Landspeeder w/ multi melta & heavy flamer 70
Landspeeder w/ multi melta & heavy flamer 70
TROOPS
10 Tac Marines w/ flamer & multi melta w/ rhino 205
10 Tac Marines w/ flamer & multi melta w/ rhino 205
10 Tac Marines w/ flamer & multi melta w/ rhino 205
HEAVY SUPPORT
Vindicator 115
Vindicator 115

In this list, splitting up the landspeeders makes each more survivable as they no-longer are affected by vehicle squadron rules for immobilization.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239098/703846.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239098/703846.page GMT tac squads scoring.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239098/708822.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239098/708822.page GMT