http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net
Warboss w/ PK, Attack squig, bike, cybork, bosspole 155
5 Nob bikers w/cyborks, painboy, grot orderly, 2PK, 2 Big choppas 345

15 Stormboys w/Nob, PK, bosspole 220

15 Kommandos w/Nob, PK, bosspole, 2x burnas 220

2 Killa kans w/ big shootas or skorchas 80

2 Killa kans w/ big shootas or skorchas 80

2 Killa kans w/ big shootas or skorchas 80

20 boyz w/ nob, bosspole, PK 160

20 boyz w/ nob, bosspole, PK 160

1500 pts

Ok, so my whole idea is to have a lot of things that will be very immediate threats to divide fire while the cans and boyz run in. Kans will screen the boys to some extent. Does this sound viable? I feel like if I lose the Komandos, stormboys or bikers I will lose the essence of what I am going for, plus I really like all of those units. I am looking for some help in deciding what to change, but I don't want the overall idea of the army to change, so please no comments like buy 120 orks and win. I know that works, I just want to try something a little off. Winning isn't everything, I am quite concerned with the overall look of the army, but it would be nice once in a while.

I guess when it comes down to it, I have to start really building the army and play testing before I know what I like the most, but thinking things out first always helps save money.

Thanks for any help



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/705336.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/705336.page GMT
I am confused at what the feel of your army is. It isnt horde, nor is it fast attack. It actually feels like you are blending all sorts of lists together, and I dont know that it really works. Youve got part of a dread mob list without the KFFG, which means your kanz are going to get hit hard. You have a bit of the Warboss biker list, which will probably preform solidly for you, but you have sacrificed some effectiveness for points. Finally you have 2 large units of Kommandos and Stormboyz, which I have never used in the same army because, at least I have found, they fulfill the same role. They are great psych out units that do not preform so well because of their point cost. Stormboyz are crazy fast, so they get shot to death early, and at 12 pts a piece with a 6+ armor save they die spectacularly (not to mention they kill themselves) Kommandos are frightening because of their outflank, and I think a squad of 15 is abit big to infiltrate safely. Once again, they serve as an excellent fire magnet, but still 6+ save on them just having them unsupported seems dangerous.

Having written the above, I think I am starting to see your logic. Perhaps having all these fast units on the board at once will lead to a 2nd turn charge, with the hope that there is too much in the first group, stormboyz, kommandos, and nob bikers, to kill it all in one or two turns of shooting. The boyz with the kanz roll in turn 3 or 4 and mop up any stragglers. Interesting.

In that case I would recommend dropping 2 kanz off. Consider this, in 1/3 of the games you play your kanz will probably be worthless. DOW means they move on from the table edge, and chances are your opponent will be deep in his deployment zone, with you playing orks. that means your kanz will have to travel 3' to get into the action, unless you plan on holding back your boyz to get protection from the kanz, which isnt a good idea. It is not as though kanz block los to prevent shots at the boyz behind them anymore, thanks to true los, but if all you are going for is the 4+ cover all you need is an intervening model, so 4 will probably fulfill the role as well as six. 80 points could buy you 2 units of grots for grabbing uncontested objectives. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/707618.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/707618.page GMT
Yes, the intention is exactly as you said. I thought that dividing fire with 3 immediate threats would make target prioritization a problem for my opponent. Of course I need to playtest it to see if it just sounds good in my head.

Getting rid of two of the kans for more objective grabbing power sounds very reasonable. I will definitely try that out as well and see how that goes.

I sure I could fail spectacularly at everything, but in my mind this list sounds like something I will enjoy. If nothing else I will like the look of it. I ordered the Biker warboss and biker nobs from Forge world, for added fun.

Again, thank you for having a look for me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/708543.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/708543.page GMT PKs in your boyz mobs which you want to have in combat with infantry as often as possible.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/709111.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/709111.page GMT Pk to threaten combat with gunlines... thus allowing your boyz and wakers a free move of 6" as most Gunlines do not want to shoot at something 24" away, give it a 4+ cover save when a CC unit is close enough to assault them in 1 turn. As stated earlier a KFF is needed as Orks rarely get Armor saves and having 40 5+ saves for 50 points is worth is as you will make that back if you save 8-9 orks, which you will.

The killa kans are needed in units of 3 because they are that good and with paired with the KFF you see 9 walkers that ignore half of the things you throw at them and are immune to small arms fire is kinda scary...Kustom Mega Blast are a bit pricey IMHO as 9 of them will cost almost a third of your army (remember: everything counts in large amounts, and half of the shots from a grot, miss...) Rokkits work just fine or perhaps Grotzookas as they wound on a 2+ thus forcing more saves, and forced saves are failed saves.

The only problem with the Bikers I see is, with no supporting fire, they will be targeted for a round of fire, annihilated and your boyz and 6 walkers will not have gained that much ground for 500 points... If you had more Bikers or perhaps a way of providing enough Threat Saturation that your opponent will have to think, should I destroy a third of his points or take care of this... rather than I will destroy a third of his points and be fine as everything else is only moving 6-12" and I can deal with it next turn...I would either pick up Speed Freaks as this can deliver your boyz faster in trukks and thus not give your opponent Time to wipe the Nob Nikers,or Pick up the Green Tide and rid yourself of the unsupported Bikers and invest the 500 points into things that move 6"... Meks list are good but require a heavy investment in walkers and boyz to be truly scary...



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/709245.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/709245.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/709466.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/709466.page GMT
I really hesitate to put KMB on the Kans, as I want to keep them cheap. I am probably going to use magnets so that I can switch out weapons on them when I make them just in case though. Grotzookas might be really nice if I can find the points... maybe 10 Kommando's instead of 15

Goofy,

I know what you mean about them serving the same purpose and all, but I guess the idea in my mind is that my opponent will have to decide how to allocate fire between the Kommando's, Stormboyz and the bikers all while a bunch of Kans and Boyz are running at him. I can't be sure if my mental game will work... hell it might fall right on its face, but I figure it is worth a try!


Thanks for all the help and options]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/709869.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/709869.page GMT KFF. You really need it in this list. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/709899.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/709899.page GMT D6+12". This is not a huge investment that your opponent has to put forward to destroy this unit...

Ideally you want to create a threat you need to weigh how much of a threat is being put forward, how hard is it to deal with the threat, and how long will it take for the unit to hit the gun line. The KFF allows your regular boys to become harder to kill as 33% more will live to hit the gun lines...

Right now you have Nob Bikers, Kommandos, Storm Boyz as fast attackers that do not allow your opponent much time to deal with them... unfortunately without an armor save or numbers, it does not take much to give them the Axe... My suggestion is either to up their numbers, as you cannot make them more durable, so that way your opponent will really have a hard time and the Orks can do what they do best. Close Combat!


Everything Counts In Large Amounts!

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/711592.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/711592.page GMT D6+12, they may, it means you keep them out of rapid fire range and get the second turn charge. Additional mobility allows them to hide behind cover (or in if he is feeling lucky). He does have numbers of his Stormboyz and kommandos, and will get saves if he can position them well.

I am confused as to how a KFF is worth its points in this list, if all it is doing is protecting boyz. First off, it is 85 points, because the mek is being taken specifically for this purpose, and you would have his entire cost had you not taken the KFF, so you have to save 14 orks, give or take, which means you will have to suffer 42 wounds on those boyz squads. That means, assuming S4, 84 hits, and bs 4, about 126 shots. I do not know of an army that can do that sort of damage.

You rightly pointed out that where the KFF is worth it is protecting vehicles. It only has to save 2 kanz to be worth is cost, and the 4+ has much better odds than the 5+ on the boyz. The only issue here is if you do this, you are locked into running a kan wall, as it is the only configuration that makes sense. In 1/3rd of your games, the setup will preclude you from setting up the formation. A KFF can work, but I do not think it does the job for the points in this army.

Edit: Allow me to be a bit clearer about my last sentiment. This army focus on two waves hitting, not a distraction and and the real army following behind. He has too many points in the first wave for it to simply be something to buy time. A 90 point model would definitely make the second force more durable, but at the expense of the effectiveness of the first wave. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/712474.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/712474.page GMT FNP if you fail an armor save, not an invuln. Also, 2 pks in a nob unit can be a bit much, especially if your warboss has one also. Though others will disagree with me, I have never seen a unit that needed 8 strength 9 armor ignoring attacks topped off with 5 strength 10 attacks. What units are that hard? It gives you another 25-30 points to play with. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/712498.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/712498.page GMT El, first off the Feel No Pain would apply anyway, as it doesn't matter if the models took an armor save, only if any would be allowed if you had it. So if I remember correctly, you're allowed Feel No Pain unless the attack would cause Instant Death, is AP1, or explicitly does not allow armor saves at all (Rends, Power Weapons, etc).

Besides, the Nobz have all the armor they need - Don't forget that the bike itself provides a 4+ cover and armor save.

Lastly, I don't run Nobz on bikes anymore (apparently they're too hard to kill on foot still, but my local group doesn't hate me as much for it), but I can say that I support the second Klaw, and I never run without it. 2 Klaws + Warboss Klaw = just about right for me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/712589.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/712589.page GMT PK also gives you one more boy to give a wound too with the different gear and such so it could help out that way aswell.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/712651.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/712651.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/712963.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/712963.page GMT KFF if it diminishes the first wave... I merely was pointing out how fragile his first wave really was...

Although if he cannot speed up a wave as it is fast enough already, I would suggest adding more numbers to the first wave so that it is not so easily taken out.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/713695.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/713695.page GMT
More guys in the first wave eh? That could be arranged I suppose. I'll have to do some number crunching. When I get to actual playtesting I will buy 20 stormboys and mess around with all the other numbers too I suppose.

All the imput has been really helpful. You have all given me a few ideas and I have discovered that I can start building my Ork army around this premise and then work from there.

Oh and I know I put Skorchas/Big Shootas on all the cans... does anyone have an opinion on which would be a better choice? I keep going back and forth on it. The Skorchas of course are useful, and since I plan to run anyways the shootas could be wasted. On the other hand if my opponent infiltrated something or there was something that I needed to shoot at... Hmm

Like I said earlier, I guess I will build them with magnets so I can try both.

Thanks again everyone. I didn't expect to get so much input.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/713711.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/239299/713711.page GMT