<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Characters on mounts - base size?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/15.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Characters on mounts - base size?
An example of the dilemma is when dealing with a Chaos Lord on a Daemonic Mount. Chaos Lords (in non terminator armor) come on the small 25mm bases. If you want a khorne lord on a juggernaut mount, you pretty much have to convert. One option is to use the fantasy Khorne lord on a juggernaut, who i believe comes with a square base. The other option is to use the juggernaut from the bloodcrusher box with a chaos marine instead of a bloodletter riding it, which comes with a 60mm base. So which base do you use?

Obviously the juggernaut isn't really going to fit on the 25mm base, but fitting the model on doesn't have anything to do with the rules. The issue is that while a bloodcrusher is a bloodcrusher and so goes on its supplied base, a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut is a Khorne Lord with a fancy piece of wargear. Its still a khorne lord, not a new unit type. So wouldn't RAW be that you use the Lord's base?

If so, wouldn't this also apply for characters on bikes?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/731889.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/731889.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?
Drudge Dreadnought wrote:Models must be mounted on the bases they come with
Actually that is wrong. The rulebook says it is normal to base them on the base they came with, but to tell your opponent if you are using something different. All that nonsense about Bases died with 4th edition thank god.

It's rather simple, if you mount a character on a Juggernaut, use the Base that Comes with the Juggernaut (60mm you said?) If on a Bike, use a bike base. I mean, there's no GW model for a Chaplain Techmarines on a Bike (IIRC), but Plenty for Normal Chaplains Techmarines if you convert him to have one, are you going to say he must be based on a 25mm base, even though he is on a bike?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732023.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732023.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?
Page 3: "Citadel miniatures are normally supplied with a plastic base. If so, they must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game."

"Some players like to mount their models on impressive scenic bases .As mounting your models on different sized bases might affect the way they interact with the rules, make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this."


This does seem to say pretty clearly that they go on the base they come with. I also can't find any rules saying that bikes go on biker bases, or that juggernaut goes on 60mm bases.

The real issue is that there is no such unit as a juggernaut or a bike. So if you are doing a conversion, which you have to do to have a power armored chaos lord on a juggernaut, you are using 2 kits that will have come with different bases. I cannot find any RAW to suggest that you would use the mount's base. A chaos lord on a juggernaut is a chaos lord, not a juggernaut. So that would suggest using the base he came with.

So yes, i'm suggesting that RAW is that they go on 25mm bases. Obviously this is dumb, and they really need more rules. I'd never give anybody trouble about having their bikes or steeds on larger ones.

Where this issue does apply though is if you wanted your juggernaut lord on, say, a biker base (which it'll fit on just fine) instead of the 60mm base.

EDIT: And actually there is a bike chaplian model ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732030.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732030.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size? "Citadel miniatures are normally supplied with a plastic base."

"Khorne Lord on Juggernaut" and "Techmarine on Bike" do not have a base supplied with them, ergo, RAW you dont have to have a Base for them

Edit: Please tell me there is no Techmarine on a Bike!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732039.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732039.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size? GW.

EDIT: Thankfully no, but the biker chaplain is a pretty bad model. Needs a skull helm http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020020&prodId=prod1050249

EDIT 2: But the question still applies when you have 2 models that each have different base sizes and are being combined, like if you converted a plastic berserker and a bloodcrusher to be a Khorne lord on a juggernaut. There is no rule to determine which one to use, but i'd still argue that you use the chaos lord's base as the unit is a chaos lord, not a bloodcrusher.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732042.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732042.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?
But as I said, "Khorn Lord on Juggernaut" has no Model, so there is no Base with which it can be supplied. It doesn't matter what the parts you used for the conversion had for their bases.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732051.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732051.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size? RAI though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732054.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732054.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?
Personally I would say, Yes, the Khorne lord is Infantry, and comes with a 25mm base, but until you can show me a "Khorne Lord on Juggernaut" box and what base that box has, RaW the model has not been supplied with a base, and therefore does not actually requite one.

Now, considering the fact that the Model does NOT have a GW made model, you HAVE to convert it, I would say that the RAW is that you "make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this."

If they do, you can do one of 3 things:
IF Game$=Casual THEN KickInNuts
IF Game$=Tournament THEN GOTO Judge
IF Game$=TFG THEN KickInNutsX2

But srsly, if you are in a Tournament Setting, you should have cleared it pre tournament with the TO. In a Casual Game it shouldn't matter.
Personally I would Say put it on a 60mm, unless putting it on a Bike base doesn't look too silly.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732056.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732056.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?
Personally I would say, Yes, the Khorne lord is Infantry, and comes with a 25mm base, but until you can show me a "Khorne Lord on Juggernaut" box and what base that box has, RaW the model has not been supplied with a base, and therefore does not actually requite one.


Actually i don't think it would matter if there was a Khorne lord on juggernaut box (which there is) if you were converting your own. It matters what comes in the box of your model specifically, not what generally comes in the box of models of that type. For example, plastic terminators come on 40mm bases, but metal come on 25mm. Obviously using the same base size for conversions as for the latest release of a given model is the safest way to go, but there is no RAW for it.

If they do, you can do one of 3 things:
IF Game$=Casual THEN KickInNuts
IF Game$=Tournament THEN GOTO Judge
IF Game$=TFG THEN KickInNutsX2

But srsly, if you are in a Tournament Setting, you should have cleared it pre tournament with the TO. In a Casual Game it shouldn't matter.
Personally I would Say put it on a 60mm, unless putting it on a Bike base doesn't look too silly.


I agree, this is the RAI. This thread was purely looking at RAW issues.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732069.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732069.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?
Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Personally I would say, Yes, the Khorne lord is Infantry, and comes with a 25mm base, but until you can show me a "Khorne Lord on Juggernaut" box and what base that box has, RaW the model has not been supplied with a base, and therefore does not actually requite one.


Actually i don't think it would matter if there was a Khorne lord on juggernaut box (which there is) if you were converting your own. It matters what comes in the box of your model specifically, not what generally comes in the box of models of that type. For example, plastic terminators come on 40mm bases, but metal come on 25mm. Obviously using the same base size for conversions as for the latest release of a given model is the safest way to go, but there is no RAW for it.
My Apologies, I was unaware of there even being such a box (That's what I get for 10 Straight years of Space Wolves ), but I assume its for Fantasy? If so, my point about there being no model still stands (as there is no 40k Model).
Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
If they do, you can do one of 3 things:
IF Game$=Casual THEN KickInNuts
IF Game$=Tournament THEN GOTO Judge
IF Game$=TFG THEN KickInNutsX2

But srsly, if you are in a Tournament Setting, you should have cleared it pre tournament with the TO. In a Casual Game it shouldn't matter.
Personally I would Say put it on a 60mm, unless putting it on a Bike base doesn't look too silly.


I agree, this is the RAI. This thread was purely looking at RAW issues.
Well, by Strict RaW, conversions should not be allowed. The Rules assume you are using Stock Citadel Miniatures, so any conversions have to be pushed in ad hoc if it were. For Terminators, if you have the Old metal ones, RaW says you use the old bases. If you have the New ones, you use the 40mm bases. If you are converting, that's your choice. If its the old metal Body, I would say use the Old base. if based off a New Body, use the new base.

Yakface made a great post about converted models a little while back (and put it in much better terms that I could ever) but I cannot find it now :(]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732095.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732095.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size? http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020025&prodId=prod1095423

And yes i am familiar with that post of Yaks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732101.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732101.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?
Drudge Dreadnought wrote:Yarr! http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020025&prodId=prod1095423

And yes i am familiar with that post of Yaks.
By Russes balls...

Ok, sorry, First I get the Chaplain Wrong, now I get the Juggernaut Wrong. You threw me off with your "you have to convert" comment in the OP. YOU LIE GOOD SIR! Serves me right for Playing Wolves unbroken for so long I guess (hey We've had like what, 4 new Models made in the last 8 years? Not counting 13th co which I ignore ).

Ok so, What base does that Model come with? Whatever it comes with is what you use, RaW and for any and All conversions I would Assume (Since RaW Conversions are not allowed, there is no RaW answer... ow my head hurts).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732103.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732103.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732106.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732106.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?
Drudge Dreadnought wrote:I have no clue. But whatever it comes on is only what you use for that specific model. If you have a juggernaut lord converted out of a bloodcrusher or fantasy model it wouldn't be the same base as far as i can tell.
Well the thing is, that is what the Model is MEANT to have (because it was supplied with it -SHOCK AND HORROR-) so it would be natural to assume that any conversions would use the same base as the non converted model.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732108.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732108.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size? RAW saying that. It is kind of sort of implied at best.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732110.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732110.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?
Drudge Dreadnought wrote:I agree that that would be a good general guideline, but there is no RAW saying that. It is kind of sort of implied at best.
There is also no RaW allowing Conversions at all (after all, you have to let your opponent know if you have a rock on the base ffs). The only "RaW" regarding bases is that which you have quoted, that the models must come with the base they are supplied with.

I can see three (two) ways of interpretation that:
1) You may mount a converted model on whatever base part of it came from. of course this is beyond silly as you could stick a peice of anything on it as a Dangly bit and claim you could use its base. Status: REJECTED

2) The converted model was never supplied with a base, because GW never made the model as is. Therefore you mount it on whatever base is Appropriate, and clarify with your opponent (because Conversions are a non standard part of the game anyway and should be clarified as a matter of course to avoid "Heated Discussion" and "Shattered Left Testicle").

3) "OMG U HAZ CONVERTED MODEELZ U IZ BANED I GET U DISQUALIFIEDZ NAIO!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732114.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732114.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732120.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732120.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?
So, for all you Boys and Girls out there, a Quick Summery:

There is no RaW answer, because there are no Rules Written about Conversions. Conversions can go on whatever base Is Appropriate, Clear it up Pre Game. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732123.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732123.page GMT Characters on mounts - base size?

25 is way too small, 40 may be pushing it a bit, but 60 seems fine (as they have used 60's to base crushers)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732124.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241243/732124.page GMT