http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 40k games before but never owned my own miniatures, so I'm going to make myself a small 750 army to play with friends, then possibly upgrade to 1k and higher if it suits me. Here's my possible layout I researched tell me if it's decent. I chose

Daemon Prince x 1(110), Mark of Slaanesh(5) + Warptime(25) = 140 pt
Possessed Chaos Space Marine x 5(130), Champion(10), Icon of Khorne(30) = 170 pt
Khorne Berzerkers x 8(168), Champion(15), power fist(25), meltabombs(5) = 212 pt
Chaos Havok x 5(75), missle launcher x 2(40), autocannon x 2(40) = 155 pt
Obliterator Cult x 1 = 75 pt

TOTAL: 752 pt.

I know it's only 20 units, but that seems like a decent ammount considering it's chaos, and it's only 750 pt army

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735057.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735057.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735066.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735066.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735069.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735069.page GMT lol!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735076.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735076.page GMT
You're running a Khorne list so anything BUT mark of khorne is just wrong. So, with that in mind, let's start this off.

Your troops should consist of two squads of Khorne Berzerkers. I'd say 8 each with a Power fist/SC.

Your HQ NEEDS to be a DP in a 750 list, especially a khorne one, IMO. So, DP with Wings and Mark of Khorne is what should be your HQ, unless you'd prefer Kharn...

Possessed are USELESS. They never EVER will earn their points back and are just crap. Toss them out. Even if you like the look of the model, if you ever want to win a game, they can't be there.

Havocs and Obliterators don't go so well in a Khorne list. You're better off with a Vindicator or somethign that won't be easily taken out in a 750 list...

Here's a list I think you'd be better off with...


Daemon Prince - 140
Mark of Khorne
Wings (It lets you get this bad boy into CC)

8 Khorne Berzerkers - 243
Skull Champion - Power Fist
Chaos Rhino Transport

8 Khorne Berzerkers - 243
Skull Champion - Power Fist
Chaos Rhino Transport

Chaos Vindicator - 125

Total = 751

Now, this looks weird to most. Firstly, Khorne's magic number is 8 so this is perfectly fluffy. You now have stuff that HAS to be hit with heavy weapons to be hurt, which is hard to do in a 750 list. You vindicator is able to shoot out beautiful pie plates, the berzerkers move up the field, pull out of the Rhino's, and charge whoever you just came into. The DP moves behind the Rhinos, and thanks to the Wings, is now able to move 12 inches and match the speed of the Rhinos.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735087.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735087.page GMT imo the demon prince is a good choice but id go with lash of submission pull things out of cover so your noise marines can shoot em up also causes pinning wich never hurts obliterators are fun but maybe overkill at 750 its 10% of you pts in one model would probably up the berserkers 10 guys and give the champ a power weapon instead of the fist since your not really going to worry about vehichles this amount of points ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735088.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735088.page GMT

Daemon Prince x 1(110), Mark of Khorne (10) = 120 pt
Possessed Chaos Space Marine x 5(130), Champion(10), Icon of Khorne(30) = 170 pt
Khorne Berzerkers x 5(105), Champion(15), power fist(25), Personal Icon (5) meltabombs(5) = 160 pt
Khorne Berzerkers x 5(105), Champion(15), power fist(25), Personal Icon (5) meltabombs(5) = 160 pt
Chaos Havok x 5(75), missle launcher x 2(40), autocannon x 1(20), Meltagun x1 (10) = 145 pt

Total 755 pt

Please tell me if this one is a suitable 750 pt army? I think it's okay, but I thought that of the last one too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright, so the possessed Chaos suck? I was wondering they came for free in the starter pack so I assumed I'd better use them to save myself some money from buying others. I'll just invest in more Beserkers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735089.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735089.page GMT cc even with wings and other than for fluff there is no reason to stick with one mark a slaaneshi prince with lash is going to be able to at least shoot stuff b4 he gets in to cc at 750 my list would probably look like this

demon prince mark of slaanesh wings lash of submisson 145

berzerkers 10 man sc power weapon melta bombs 245

noise marines 10 man nc power weapon doom siren 1 blastmaster 9 sonic blasters 330

rhino for the berzerkers 35

755
the noise marines do double duty not only can they kill meq the can take out any vehicle except raiders also initiative 5 before charging means they will always hit first or at least at the same time and the iniative 6 dp usually kills any others since it swings first ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735096.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735096.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735097.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735097.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735098.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735098.page GMT imo since your giving up the benift of furios charge to attack at initiative 1 tere good for killing tanks but meltabombs are cheaper and better at it other than that not a bad list youll get a feel for what works for you the more you play id suggest trying all the different options before settling on one]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735100.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735100.page GMT

Automatically Appended Next Post:
RE REVISED!!!!

Daemon Prince(110) + Mark of Slaneesh(5)+Lash of Submission(25) = 135

(#1)Khorne Berzerkers x 8(168) + Champion(15) + Power Weapon(15) + Personal Icon(5) + Meltabomb(5) +Rhino(35) = 243

(#2)Khorne Berzerkers x 8(168) + Champion(15) + Power Weapon(15) + Personal Icon(5) + Meltabomb(5) +Rhino(35) = 243

Chaos Havok x 5(75) + Missle Launcher x 2(40) + Meltagun x 2(20) = 135

Total = 756

this is my final attempt at revising my original, how does this sound?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
anyone?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735110.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735110.page GMT LoS list a 'Nurgle List'.

Also, those havocs are practically useless. Infantry anti-tank is practically useless in 5th ed, IMO, especially Chaos Havocs. THose guys have big guns, but a few shots from a predator or something will destroy them in one turn, rendering them useless.

Plus, on the havocs, you have meltaguns and missile launchers. If they fire the missiles, you can't move at all. If you want to use the meltas, you have to be within 12", 6" if you want it against a tank.

If you're really keen on the havocs, give them all ML and pull points away from this by taking LoS off your DP. It's not usefull in a 750 list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735188.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735188.page GMT DP that has the mark of khorne then just run Kharn the Betrayer. He is really good.

Also take those PF's off of the Champion and give him a Power Weapon. If you attack something with more than a Toughness of 5 then you shouldn't be charging.

You are strength 5 on the charge with a power sword and with a power fist you are swining at init 1. Believe me you are going to find times when that Power Fist never gets to swing.

On another note. With each model taking a save that Champion is not safe. So even taking 1 wound from bolters could mean you lose him. The less points put into him the best. You should however have a melta bomb on him if you go Power Weapon.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735302.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735302.page GMT
Run this is you want havocs, otherwise run Lorgar's

DP - 140
MoK; Wings

2x
Berserker Squad - 227
7x; Skull Champion; PF; Rhino; Combi-Bolter

Havoc Squad - 155
5x; 4x meltaguns; rhino; combi-bolter

to Kharn below - Why would followers of Khorne be led by a follower of Slaanesh? Thats like the Democrats being led by a Republican, it doesn't make sense.

Kharn the Betrayer is great, just send him in alone. He can rip whole squads up by himself, but you have to be smart about it. Don't send him into a unit with a bunch of PF's or PW's or is a MC or like a unit of 20 boys (I did this once and took no wounds for 2 turns and once the boys dropped below 11, I sweeping advanced them when they ran) send him into that annoying deathcompany or the Grey Knights (not the terminators, even though he could have a good chance of ripping a whole squad by himself) ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735531.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735531.page GMT
Your havocs can be useful in certain circumstances, but you have their weapons sorta all over the place. The meltagun's range is only 12", and the missile launcher is 48", so they most likely won't be able to fire together, especially since the melta is "assault" and the missile is "heavy".

Lorgar's list is a good "Khorne" list if that's what you want. If you just want a "Chaos" list, then feel free to swap around whatever you want.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735542.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735542.page GMT cc and then he usually does as much damage to your squad as the enemy . and logar how does not running a khorne prince make it not a khorne list ? koski that list looks fine id give the prince wings but thats up to you also i dont like havocs that much but once again your choice good luck with the list and happy hunting]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/735545.page GMT

If you disrespect Khorne by throwing Lash Princes and the like into His Army Lists willy-nilly, he will curse you, and you will roll bad.


You can put in a Lash Prince or some Noise Marines, but don't call it Khorne.


Lorgar's suggested list is right on the money, and if you don't want any vehicles, you can drop the rhinos and vindi for two Oblits, 7 more zerks, another DP, or even those havocs you want, though I would not recommend it without meltas or flamers and a rhino.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/736277.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/736277.page GMT
Kharne the Betrayer (165)
165
Berzerkers x 8 (168)
Skull Champion + Power Weapon + Meltabomb + Personal Icon (+40)
Rhino + Combi-flamer (+45)
253
Berzerkers x 8 (168)
Skull Champion + Power Weapon + Meltabomb + Personal Icon (+40)
Rhino + Combi-flamer (+45)
253
Obliterator Cult x 1 (75)
75

TOTAL: 746

So I realized you were right about needing to be a follower of Khorne and I stopped being a wimp and poser and picked up Kharne himself.
I believe I can deep strike my Obliterator if I want to help me in situations because all my units have icon.
I didn't believe that I would run into many tanks at a 750 pt level, so the meltabomb's, and the obliterator's abilities seemed enough.
Rhino's have flamers to help when getting close with Berzerkers to drop
And I can use Kharne to flank them from a different side of my other military, or just wait back until I need to "unleash" him, and hope he kills mostly enemies.

I think I did okay, and this is the first list I feel okay about, comments on this one? Any major holes?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738490.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738490.page GMT MoK Termie Lord with a Daemon wep, but that's expensive and your only at 750 pts so far lol

Read up on my CSM Questions thread, there's a LOT of heplful hints on how to build a chaos army, especially a Khornate army.

As per your list, that lone obliterator probably wont last long. It is a good choice, just in case by some miracle that your opponent fields a high-AV vehicle, like how I know the IG can, with their AV14/13/11 LR variants. And you have alot of CC, which is verrrry good at small points, as your opponent more than likely wont have many troops (they either focus on troop flooding, or get the bare minimum and try to get heavy weapons or vehicles in)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738504.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738504.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738509.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738509.page GMT chaos lord mark of khorne daemon weapon combi weapon plasma pistol and melta bombs 170pts
that with what you already have should put you at 751]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738518.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738518.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738544.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738544.page GMT hq to expand on this is only advice and your free to use it or not but like i said earlier try using everything get a feel for their rules and have fun


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738630.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738630.page GMT
So play smart when you use him. You don't have to take those wounds if you do it right.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738731.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/738731.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739563.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739563.page GMT

But yes, other than that, everything you said is pretty much true...

Kharn: 165 points for 5 base +1 for charge attacks that hit on 2's with no save, and has 3 wounds at 3+ armor and 5+ invuln


Terminator Lord w/ MoK and Daemon Weapon: 155 points for 4 base +1 charge +2d6 attacks at WS6, no saves, and also 3 wounds, but at 2+ armor and a 5+ invuln... YOU SAVE 10 POINTS

Regular Lord w/ MOK and Daemon Weapon and TL Bolter: 145 for 4 base +1 charge +2d6 attacks at WS6, no saves, and also 3 wounds at 3+ armor with no invuln save... YOU SAVE 20 POINTS

Need I say more on how Kharn isn't all too great in 5e in comparison to the Chaos Lord?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739645.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739645.page GMT
The points you lose when rolling a one are considerably higher with Lords equipped with Daemon Weapons. Kharn also has the advantage of being able to take down MCs and vehicles far more effectively than a regular Chaos Lord, thanks to his bonuses to st and 2d6 armor penetration.

Think of it this way:

A Lord has to roll three ones (and is rolling 2d6 with MoK) to lose all his wounds to himself, and you are out 140+ pts. Even losing one wound is effectively reducing his points value by a third, which is worth at least two berzerkers.
To lose that many points with Kharn, you would have to roll about 7 ones.

That said, at points totals this low, either one is a huge risk, and I would recommend a DP as your HQ. You can get a winged DP w/MoK for cheaper than a DW Lord OR Kharn.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739758.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739758.page GMT
Your first list is ok minus the possessed for your other troop choice, and Oblitz are probably better than Havocs. I personally like equipping Havocs for assault (4 Flamers is 20 points and more effective vs. hordes than 'zerkers). Kharn is fun and kind of effective. That's about it. Chaos Lords kills themselves, though I had an entire CSM squad get wiped by one in a single round of combat on Monday. I assaulted him the next turn and he promptly killed himself.

Always be sure to have some long-range support and throw in Power Fists where possible.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739880.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739880.page GMT
For example, I think it is ridiculous to lead a Khorne army with a Lash Prince or a Tzeentch Sorceror, because the presence of the mark is directly in opposition to the ways of Khorne. At this point, it doesn't necessarily ruin the rules for fluff in general, but it is no longer what you can call a Khorne army.

However, giving a DP warptime to lead your Khorne army is different. In the Warhammer 40k world, Psychic abilities manifest themselves in all sorts of ways - such as the latent psychic powers of Orks that strengthen them through sheer aggression. Therefore, if my DP with no mark has Warptime, clearly it isn't really a psychic power, but a latent bloodrage that makes him more deadly up close. He doesn't suffer a perils of the warp attack when he fails his psychic test, but the blood rage has become so overpowering that he injures himself in his fury.

You can even take this farther, and model your tzeentch DP with thick brass armour and flames or smoke coming from his mouth, to represent that invul save and your nifty flamer-template Wind of Chaos 'psychic power', although I personally hold myself to a higher standard than that.

I would like to point out that I have about equal luck with the Warptime Prince and the MoK prince in most battles, as that psychic test can occasionally mess things up, and you have fewer attacks with Warptime.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739909.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739909.page GMT now as for the lord the lord only takes 1 wound if he rolls any 1s when you roll for the extra attacks not when you make the attacks" a model with bloodfeeder gains 2d6 extra attacks rather than a d6 if either of the dice rolls a 1 the model dose not attack and suffers one wound as described above ( not one wound for each 1 rolled)" but like i said earlier the chances of roling a 1 on 2 dice is a lot less than on 6 and from experience 1's rarely happen on the 2d6 roll i just finished a league with a khorne lord and didnt roll a single 1 during the 2d6 roll on the attacks yes there where a few but i was averaging 14 - 15 power weapon attacks and 7-9 wounds it really was fustrating for my opponents it takes a lot for a lord to kill himself and at this points your right a dp would probably be better except he will always be priority 1 and probably be down 2-3 wounds before assaulting and i feel a khorne dp is a bit of risk since you probably wont be able to assault until turn 2 thats 2 shooting phases of him just standing there doing nothing btw this was my list for the league at 1500pts

hq: dp wings mark of khorne 140pts
lord mok demon weapon jump pack melta bombs combi-melta 175

troops 10 man berserker sc power weapon melta bombs 245

5 man noise marines nc pw meltabombs blastmaster doomsiren 4 sonicblasters 210

rhino for noise marines combi-melta 45

fast attack
5 man raptors 2 meltaguns 120 (lord attached)

heavy
defiler 2 xtra close combat arms 150

predator twinlinked lascannon sponson lascannon dozer blade twin linked bolter 175

chaos landraider dozerblade havoc launcher 240 (transporting berzerkers)

1500pts even
placed 6th out of 18 with a final record of 2-1-2
and my dp very rarely made it to cc but my lord always earned his points back + lots of extra and i got completely of topic sorry ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739926.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739926.page GMT DW Lord, they balance out more or less the same. Kharn will get more ones, but his will do less damage. He also has a better chance to wound, and it very effective against vehicles and MCs, while the Lord is a little less accurate and better against hordes.

In the end, I find DPs to be better almost all the time, especially since I run multiple land raiders that can screen them.

At the points total that the OP is using, even without land raiders, the DP is still the best choice. It can move faster than Kharn or a Lord, and it will be harder to take down with the things available to the average 750 pt army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739953.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/739953.page GMT DW Termie Lord gets his invuln save if he rolls a 1 for the 2d6.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/740005.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/241505/740005.page GMT