<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Making Omlettes the Imperial Guard way"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Making Omlettes the Imperial Guard way
The key is breaking opening the "eggs" i.e. the vehicle transports that protect the "egg yolks" within. To do this, i.e. to force enemy troops out into the open where they can be targetted by Collosus shells, IG armies must destroy the vehicle or immobilize it, forcing its occupants to footslog. Enter the Vendetta.

Except for Land Raiders, the max frontal armor on any transport vehicle in 12. Except for Wave Serpents (which reduce shots to S8) and Holo-field Falcons (which lower damage rolls), a single Vendetta has a 3(3/4)(1/2)(1/2)=9/16 average chance of destroying or immobilizing any transport in the game. Taken in pairs, that gives an average chance of 9/8 for destroying or immobilizing a transport. Of course, the odds get better if the transport is AV11/10 or is open-topped and gets worse if the transport has a cover save from smoke/SMF rules, but for now let's just stick to the "average" transport without extra modifiers.

So, a "wing" of two Vendettas are almost guaranteed to "crack the egg" on a single transport in a single firing phase. Now, if an IG army takes two or three "wings" and combines them with two to three batteries of Collosus Mortars (2 Mortars per Battery) and you have a force that can shoot the legs off the opposing army and then shell them into oblivion without LOS.

The only item remaining is a "wall" to protect the Collosus Batteries.... enter the Armored Fist Squads. With troops inside to make them scoring and give them some extra firepower, 3-6 Chimeras can block LOS to the Collosus Batteries and also provide some extra anti-horde firepower.

Here is an example Army List using this tactical approach:

HQ (200)
-CCS w/ 4 MGs, PP (ride Vendetta)
-CCS w/ 4 MGs, PP (ride Vendetta)

TR (680)
-PCS w/ 4 Flamers (ride Vendetta)
-Infantry Squad w/ AC, Flamer, Chimera
-Infantry Squad w/ AC, Flamer, Chimera
-SWS w/ 3 Flamers (ride Vendetta)

-PCS w/ 4 Flamers (ride Vendetta)
-Infantry Squad w/ AC, Flamer, Chimera
-Infantry Squad w/ AC, Flamer, Chimera
-SWS w/ 3 Flamers (ride Vendetta)

FA (780)
-2 Vendetta Squadron
-2 Vendetta Squadron
-2 Vendetta Squadron

HA (840)
-2 Collosus Battery
-2 Collosus Battery
-2 Collosus Battery]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/807739.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/807739.page GMT Re:Making Omlettes the Imperial Guard way imo: Drop one CCS, you want to work with the Colossus and Vendettas anyway, so they're not needed for orders. Afterwards drop those Infantry Platoons and go for vets. Yes they're a bit more expensive bodies but they're worth it for melta and plasma goodness. Finally i'd drop one Colossus battery for 2 Hydra's sake, so here's what i'd come around with, if I wanted to get the Colossus doing its job at that point size:

1xCCS: 4 Plasmaguns, Chimera (165)
3xVets: 3 Meltas (300)
3xVets: 3 Plasmaguns (345)
-each riding in a vendi
3X 2 Vendettas (780)
2x2Colossus (560)
1x2Hydras (150)

Hydras can either pop light armor or clean up small units after a colossus hit. Two pairs of colossus should be enough, there'll be enough vehicles resisting the vendis and not spitting out their cargo against all mathhammering . The Vets can kill heavy armor with meltas or Terminators and the like (or light armor if needed) with plasma. Finally there's 200 points left over to buy extra chimeras (dropping PGs for meltas or flamers if needed) the all-over-the-top-hardcore-cheese PBS or some additional equipment like camo netting. Still I think the colossus is far too expensive to use four of them. Even at that point size.

Now that I read over this, it occures to me, that this build is nothing but (or quite close to) standard mech vets at higher points leaving the PBS out and putting extra colossus in there...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/807781.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/807781.page GMT Re:Making Omlettes the Imperial Guard way
The only other way to pump out anti-cover ap1/2 shots is with plasma weaponary from infantry platoons with 'On my target' but as they cant field any actual plasma cannons the amount of shooting is limited.

I personally assume that most-to-all TEQ/MEQ type troops will prefer open ground & clear LOS/charge distances while relying on 2+/3+ saves rather than using restrictive cover to gain a cover save they shouldnt often use.

I also assume that if I do deny armor saves to units with a cover-save & those armor saves were good to high & im wounding on 2+'s, then im shooting down relatively expensive units and a decent enough rate. This is the reason why the accurate str 6 ap 4 large pie's from a griffon are just great. The tank is so cheap & its range is fair.

Lastly I assume that where 4+ saves are concerned, the Eradicator is just the perfect weapon to unload the pain. Its tough. Its mobile. Its deadly to any 4+ save infantry (or worse). Devoid of 4+ save targets, it still wounds T4 on 2's so on a decent hit, a squad will be forced to roll a fair few armor saves.

Basically my point is; The colossus fills a gap in munitions that is just too narrow in usefullness (MEQ in cover) when compared to all the other avialible weapon sytstem/munitions. You could have two colossuses or you could have one eradicator & one executioner.

So, with that in mind;

1x Eradictor
1x Executioner
3x Griffon

1x Vendetta
1x Vendetta
1x Valkyrie

Veterans + 3meltas

1PCS +4xflamers
2Infantry squads +1xFlamer, 1x GL & 1x AC.
3x Infantry squads +3x Lascannons, +3x GL, +1x Vox

Some form of CCS, with a lascannon, reg standard & vox.

= Probably somwhere close to 1500pts. Egg crackers & Yolk takers.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/808197.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/808197.page GMT Making Omlettes the Imperial Guard way http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/808206.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/808206.page GMT Making Omlettes the Imperial Guard way
Cheese Elemental wrote:I'm more of a Basilisk man myself. The ability to pop hiding vehicles and fire directly is too much for me to pass up.


But you'll rarely score a hit, firing indirectly? When you do fire directly.. well its a 130pt lascannon with ordanence penetration.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/808220.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/808220.page GMT Making Omlettes the Imperial Guard way
Razerous wrote:
Cheese Elemental wrote:I'm more of a Basilisk man myself. The ability to pop hiding vehicles and fire directly is too much for me to pass up.


But you'll rarely score a hit, firing indirectly? When you do fire directly.. well its a 130pt lascannon with ordanence penetration.



I think he means having the option to fire directly is too much to pass up. once enemy units come within 24 inches off the colossus all you can do is sit there and pray. drop pods, outflank,Deep strike,Fast transports. All these things make this scenario likely. Once this happens your a 140 point sitting duck. which would you rather be the lascanon or the duck?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/808656.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/808656.page GMT Re:Making Omlettes the Imperial Guard way
You start off ok with 3/4 * 1/2 * 1/2 = as the odds of a twin linked lascannon shot destroying or immobilizing an armor 12 vehicle. So that's 3/16. However, you can't just multiply that by 3 to get the odds of destroying a vehicle with 3 such shots. Following that logic, 6 lascannons would invariably destroy a vehicle, and that simply isn't the case.

A better way to do it is to figure the odds of a vehicle NOT being destroyed by 3 of these shots. They've got a 13/16 chance of not dying to each one, so the odds of the wholesale shot are 13 * 13 * 13 / 16 * 16 * 16. My calculator says that's 2197/4096. Thus, your volley, from a single vendetta has a slightly worse than 1/2 chance of destroying/immobilizing the vehicle. (to be precise its 1899 out of 4096).

Now, doubling this can be calculated using the same formula. 2197/4096 that they survive one, the same odds for surviving the other, is just another squaring. You get 4826809/16777216. This means there's a 11950407/16777216 chance that you pop the vehicle. That's a bit worse than 3/4, a bit better than 2/3. We'll call it 12/17 for ease of math. A Vendetta pair has a 12/17 chance of popping or immobilizing a nonsmoking armor 12 vehicle. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/808753.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/808753.page GMT Making Omlettes the Imperial Guard way
Now, doubling this can be calculated using the same formula. 2197/4096 that they survive one, the same odds for surviving the other, is just another squaring. You get 4826809/16777216. This means there's a 11950407/16777216 chance that you pop the vehicle. That's a bit worse than 3/4, a bit better than 2/3. We'll call it 12/17 for ease of math. A Vendetta pair has a 12/17 chance of popping or immobilizing a nonsmoking armor 12 vehicle.


Dont simplify next time.. Every math teacher tells you to simplify but you're protesting! Down with their easy to read fractions.. long live numbers in the 10s of millions

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/809234.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/809234.page GMT Re:Making Omlettes the Imperial Guard way
40kenthusiast wrote: So Thus, your volley, from a single vendetta has a slightly worse than 1/2 chance of destroying/immobilizing the vehicle. (to be precise its 1899 out of 4096)


But but... I dont have that many lascannons ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/809339.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/246310/809339.page GMT