<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Why are Salamanders now Ebony?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Why are Salamanders now Ebony? GW change Salamanders into something non-human. They're not dark skinned, they're not African, they have ebony skin and red eyes. I always thought Salamanders were kinda cool, but now they just seem too cartoonish even for 40k (which has Space Vikings and Space Nuns with Guns, etc.). The LSS in the new WD just doesn't look right with the scouts. Anyone else feel this was a huge fething mistake on GW's part?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860301.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860301.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860311.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860311.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860340.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860340.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? GW made a mistake and they were sopposed to be african.They had marines who looked like Mike Tison.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860359.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860359.page GMT Re:Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
They should still be brown skinned humans, not black skinned humans.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860373.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860373.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860374.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860374.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860380.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860380.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
Down with GW racism! Power to the people! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860388.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860388.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860855.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860855.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
GW isn't the boss of you.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860871.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/860871.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? GW tournament if you gave all your Space Marine scouts Brown Skin and equiped them with Bows and Arrows, along with Spears.

I always thought it was just stupid period, that the large majority of IG etc.. are nonethnic. Its all white.

Name a Human special character that is not White.



40k is racist.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861072.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861072.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
Hollismason wrote:Yeah, I wonder how it would go over at a GW tournament if you gave all your Space Marine scouts Brown Skin and equiped them with Bows and Arrows, along with Spears.

I always thought it was just stupid period, that the large majority of IG etc.. are nonethnic. Its all white.

Name a Human special character that is not White.



40k is racist.


40k's target market is white men between 12 and 30, hence most of the humans being white men that appear to be youthfull yet adults.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861129.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861129.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861203.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861203.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? LIVE TOGETHER IN PERFECT HARMONYYYY.
ON MY PIANO KEYBOAAARD!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861221.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861221.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
dietrich wrote:Seriously, why oh why, did GW change Salamanders into something non-human.


Sadly, racism is the only explanation I can think of. At the very, very least the change is spectacularly insensitive and politically incorrect. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861265.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861265.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? Its also funny because Salamander is a lizard and a lizard is slang for mle member.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861273.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861273.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
Hollismason wrote:
Its also funny because Salamander is a lizard and a lizard is slang for mle member.


Anything can become slang for the male member if you say it the right way.

Anyways, I dont see exactly why the skin change in Salamanders is such a big thing. Is it that no one likes the obsidian skin or no one likes the change in general cause its perceived to be racism on GW's part?
I would think a Chapter of highly irradiated Space Marines to be more reasonable in a science fiction setting than an entire Chapter of African-Americans. Too many "token black Chapter" jokes otherwise.

That being said, if I ever made a Salamanders army they would all be wearing their helmets. Safety first, people.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861314.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861314.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
dietrich wrote:Seriously, why oh why, did GW change Salamanders into something non-human.
If Nick Kyme, the author of the "Salamander" novel is to be believed, then that's how they were originally supposed to look like.

http://www.nickkyme.com/?p=126
"[...] This actually came from the very top from some chats I’ve had with Rick Priestley about the Chapter. Truth is, they were always meant to have black skin but just got misrepresented, and red eyes too. Their homeworld is a volcanic, hellish planet so it sort of fits."

Anyone else feel this was a huge fething mistake on GW's part?
Imo they look very, very stupid now, so it's a change for the worse.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861350.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861350.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861437.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861437.page GMT Re:Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
There are no negative or positive connotations to their skin colour, nor does the fluff mention it beyond it being the case.

Aesthetically speaking, I agree; it doesn't look quite right. I've seen a 'black' as in african Salamander army before that looked perfect, and far preferable to GW's version. The GW versions just look too inhuman to be humans, but not alien enough to be distinct. Just looks like a paint palette experiment gone wrong.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861478.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861478.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
Hollismason wrote:
Name a Human special character that is not White.


Captain Al'Rahem
Mogul Kamir
Vulkan
Ko'Sharro Khan
(I think thats it)

Also, there are people who are black, not really dark brown, but BLACK. There are people with red eyes, they are called albinos. And while it is possible to get partial albinism and only have it in your eyes, it is unlikely that an entire planet would have this. So yes the glowing red eyed darkness that is the new salamanders is genetically possible.

Now having said these things yes the new salamanders look slowed, because i expect them to start breathing fire from looking at them, and apparently in the grimdarkness of the 41st millenium there are three minorities...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861492.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861492.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? YMMV.
Did you check if GW was selling a horn upgrade sprue for the salamanders?

M.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861494.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861494.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
iamthecougar wrote:
Hollismason wrote:Name a Human special character that is not White.
Captain Al'Rahem
Mogul Kamir
Vulkan
Ko'Sharro Khan
(I think thats it)

Also, there are people who are black, not really dark brown, but BLACK. There are people with red eyes, they are called albinos. And while it is possible to get partial albinism and only have it in your eyes, it is unlikely that an entire planet would have this. So yes the glowing red eyed darkness that is the new salamanders is genetically possible.

Now having said these things yes the new salamanders look slowed, because i expect them to start breathing fire from looking at them, and apparently in the grimdarkness of the 41st millenium there are three minorities...


I WILL CRUSH YOU UNDER MY INQUISITORIAL BOOT!

Inquisitor Toth is the first one that comes to my mind.

EDIT: I think it is cooler that their skin is jet black. Human skin darkens to protect itself from radiation, both during a lifetime and over a long course of natural selection (Africa is HOT). Space Marine skin does this in a matter of seconds, and on top of that, I don't think skin that would let you survive in Africa is going to cut it on Nocturne.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861700.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861700.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
A dark gray looks better, although I thought the brown skin looked better than either.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861709.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861709.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861713.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861713.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
These cries of racism are lame.. Take your PC-ness home and go live in a bubble. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861717.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861717.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861727.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861727.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
Me, I think the pale Space Marines everyone always paints are weird considering the kinds of radiation Space Marines must get exposed to over their term of service. I figure Space Marines get blacker as they age. If they were recruited from the African America sector of the Galaxy, on the other hand, they might start off pretty dark too. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861806.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861806.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861840.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861840.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861850.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861850.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861852.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861852.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861857.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/861857.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
I have to agree that its a strange decision that GW has taken with the Salamander fluff, but equally, a Legion of African decendants doesn't quite seem balanced either!

At the end of the day, its you the collector who paints your army, so GW percieved "racism" has to be partly owned by the gamers who also paint their own armies......]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862122.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862122.page GMT Re:Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862128.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? Fluff says most Marines should be african black and Salamanders should be pitch black. But instead, in GW artwork and photos, most marines are white, salamanders are pitch black, and african black skin is nowhere to be seen.
I think we mostly agree that the charcoal black looks terrible, so aesthetics is an unlikely motivation.
Im white, but I still find it offensive.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862164.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862164.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
Samus666 wrote: Fluff says most Marines should be african black


Marine's skin adjusts according to the environment they are exposed to. They would probably stay their "natural"complexion unless an atmosphere was particularly hostile.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862181.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862181.page GMT Re:Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
Salamanders were always supposed to be jet black, and African heritage had nothing to do with it.

There was a running theme in the original legions to base them off of mythological creatures.

Space Wolves are werewolves.

Blood Angels are vampires.

And so, Salamanders are fire giants.

Attached is an illustration of the original fire giant of Norse mythology, the one D&D fire giants are based off of. He has black skin not because he's based on anything African, but because it matches the color of soot.

It's exactly as stupid as Space Wolves having Wulfen as troops. The SM fluff borrows liberally from world mythology.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862222.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862222.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? Gw is RACIST!! They've been calling things "Spear Chukkas" for YEARS!!!




LOL]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862233.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862233.page GMT Re:Why are Salamanders now Ebony? LoL GW trying to throw a little more diversity eh?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862407.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862407.page GMT Re:Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862427.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862427.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862450.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/862450.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863412.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863412.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? GW's previously "African" or "African-American" (hint: if they're not American, they're not hyphenated Americans) without any hint of reflection that the genestock of Nocturne (an entire planet mind you) might have included a variety of races and skin-colours, and that people of the 'black' variety might have been descended from Australian Aboriginals, Native Americans, Dalits, or even Swedes. After ten thousand years of galactic migration we have Ogryns and Ratlings. A preference for melanin in a population is a small thing by comparison, and that's leaving out the fact of the Marine Melachroma organ. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863516.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863516.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
Nurglitch wrote:I love the way people are wailing and carrying on in this thread, bemoaning the fact that GW's previously "African" or "African-American" (hint: if they're not American, they're not hyphenated Americans) without any hint of reflection that the genestock of Nocturne (an entire planet mind you) might have included a variety of races and skin-colours, and that people of the 'black' variety might have been descended from Australian Aboriginals, Native Americans, Dalits, or even Swedes. After ten thousand years of galactic migration we have Ogryns and Ratlings. A preference for melanin in a population is a small thing by comparison, and that's leaving out the fact of the Marine Melachroma organ.



Thank you. One of the funniest arguments I've ever witnessed was between one of my med school friends from Africa arguing with a local "african-american" over which one of them was actually "african-american".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863656.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863656.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
Now I have an excuse for outnumbering in CC and getting good Run rolls.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863675.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
Personally, I think the midnight black with red eyes looks really sweet against the dark green armor. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863693.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863693.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
(You're right, they do look pretty cool)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863702.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863702.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863729.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863729.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863778.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863778.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863781.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863781.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? Black people love me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863783.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863783.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? GW painters seem to have gone with the whole eye approach but how would they look if they just had red irises?
I agree that the red eyes looks plain wrong and I'd say that they'd look just as wrong no matter what colour their skin is.

What I've wondered about is why so many descriptions of marines have them as being tanned (at least their faces). When do marines have the time to get tanned, I thought they spent most of their lives either in fortresses or spaceships and normally wore helmets in battle, so where is all this exposure to sunlight? I think your average marine would look pretty pasty rather than tanned.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863786.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863786.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863803.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863803.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
How is it possible this can be considered racist?

Every Space Marine is whatever skin pigmentation they need to be to best survive in their environment. Being exposed to the Salamanders planet long enough would turn Marneus' skin darker.. Maybe it would take a decade to turn completely black but the point still stands.

It is really sort of an anti-racist take on human adaptation, isn't it?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863808.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863808.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863833.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/863833.page GMT Re:Why are Salamanders now Ebony? They go into vats all haggared and tanned as humans and come out all white skinned and "Godlike". Sounds racist but it's really just the whole Vampire thing.

Personally I paint mine with a mediteranian complexion (or at least I try) as their imagined home base is on a continent with a very mediteranian climate, but as has been pointed out their enhancements would make them adapt so quickly you can paint them whatever colour you want; also who knows what would be the best skin colour under the light of a blue giant sun? or a red dwarf?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/864134.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/864134.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony? BA are cool. Don't deny it. (also, the locals aren't tanned, thye're BURNT)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/864141.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/864141.page GMT Re:Why are Salamanders now Ebony? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/865582.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/865582.page GMT Why are Salamanders now Ebony?
I think it probably has nothing to do with racism at all, but probably more to do with them seeing the Firegiants and thinking, "hey, these guys look pretty cool! Lets make the Salamanders look like this! They like fire too!"
Then they get confused when we all start screaming about racism.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/865953.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249538/865953.page GMT