<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/15.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? So yesterday one of the redshirts at my local GW told me that its nearly impossible to assault warp spiders unless they roll very poorly, because the eldar FAQ specifies that they may make their warp jump in ANY assault phase as long as they are not assaulting or already locked in combat. That of course would mean that if you tried to assault them, they could just jump away, and unless they rolled poor enough for you to still reach them, the assault would fail.

I was skeptical so I went home and looked it up and sure enough, there it was in the FAQ, Just as he worded it.

well my question to you guys is, in what order would this play out? He obviously cant wait for you to assault him to jump, because once your models are in base contact, hes locked, and by the FAQ he may no longer jump at that point.

So would he kind of just have to spring up right as you started your assault phase and cut you off with, "my spiders are using their warp jump to move." or is there a certain order for this kind of thing?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864624.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864624.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
If warp jump doesn't say at what point in the assault phase you can jump, then you can do it in the beginning, middle or end of any assault phase.

Also, you would declare it after your opponent started the beginning of their assault phase.

Usually in my experience people call out their phases, by just simply saying Movement, Shooting, Assault, so after Assault is mentioned you'd make your move. If your opponent doesn't declare an assault phase, and just starts moving models in, you have the right to go, hold up a sec, I'm making my warp jump move. If they argued you could just say the assault phase wasn't declared.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864628.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864628.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
Kreedos wrote:Well if warp jump is anything like hit and run, it specifies "At the end of the assault phase"

If warp jump doesn't say at what point in the assault phase you can jump, then you can do it in the beginning, middle or end of any assault phase.


I don't recall it listing a particular time to use it, other than "any assault phase," so in the case that he can use it at anytime during any assault phase, and you delcare you want your squad to assault the spiders, and he says he wants his spiders to warp jump... whos action takes precedence?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kreedos wrote:
Usually in my experience people call out their phases, by just simply saying Movement, Shooting, Assault, so after Assault is mentioned you'd make your move. If your opponent doesn't declare an assault phase, and just starts moving models in, you have the right to go, hold up a sec, I'm making my warp jump move. If they argued you could just say the assault phase wasn't declared.


ah, that clears it up, thank you.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864640.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864640.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? FAQ the wrong way:
"This move can be made in any Assault phase during which the Warp Spiders are not assaulting or fighting in an assault."
Could technically be read the way you (and he) has, however unless something specifically says that you may use it in your opponent's turn, I'd be wary of interpreting it that way.

I don't have the Eldar 'dex, so it might say you can use it in their phase though.

Also, the ghost of Gwar! Forces me to remind you that FAQs aren't rules

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864671.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864671.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? FAQ in the first place, it was amended to "any Assault phase during which the Warp Spiders are not assaulting or fighting in an assault."

also, ghost of Gwar? Did I miss something? Is Gwar gone?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864706.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864706.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
With the FAQ wording, it seems almost as you can on either turn, "any Assault phase during which the Warp Spiders are not assaulting or fighting in an assault." If they aren't fighting in an assault, and your opponent declares his assault phase, you would think you could make an assault move away, but the only thing is, you can't preform any actions on your opponents turn unless specifically stated otherwise.

I haven't seen Gwar in awhile myself. So yeah he's been gone for awhile.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864713.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864713.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
"You may make a second jump instead of assaulting"

You don't assault in your opponent's phase, so there's nothing for it to be 'instead of'

The FAQ seems to be clearing up that you may not use it to get out of an assault.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864718.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864718.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? faq more or less asked "Do you have to be allowed to assault in order to jump" and the answer was -no, "This move can be made in any Assault phase during which the Warp Spiders are not assaulting or fighting in an assault." ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864724.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864724.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? FAQ - what the question means is that you can use it when you are more than 6" away from an enemy unit - because the original wording strictly means that you must be able to assault in order to 'trade' that move for an extra jump.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864743.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/864743.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866012.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866012.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? FAQ say nothing like this.

Rule: "You may warp jump instead of assaulting"
Problem: This meant that you could only warp jump in the event that you were eligible to assault - i.e. were within 6" of an enemy and could choose to either assault them or warp jump.
FAQ: "Can I really only warp jump under those circumstances"
Response: "No, you may warp jump when you are outside 6" of your enemy"

GW rules are very clear when something can be used in your opponents turn.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866057.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866057.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866479.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866479.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
"I went to the grocery store instead of the moon" does not require that I had the ability to go to the moon in the first place in order for me to get my groceries.

That's why GW keeps FAQing the "instead of" phrasing out of various rulebooks, because it leads to that kind of confusion. Historically all of their FAQs go to the side of not requiring that you be able to do something in order to substitute another action, which is in keeping with the literal meaning of the English phrase.

Unfortunately in this case it looks like the FAQ is unclear in a totally different way.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866685.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866685.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? FAQ. Its as if you want things to be ambiguous even when they are written with precision such as the Eldar 2008 5th edition FAQ.

"This move can be made in any Assault phase during which the Warp Spiders are not assaulting or fighting in assault."

Now with my edits to bring context into the answer:

"[A Warp Spider unit] may, in any Assault phase during which the Warp Spiders are not [(1) already engaged in assault or (2) going to assault the opponent, make their extra move as described by the warp jump generator's description.]"

I pray GW pubplishes all future rules with such clarity. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866861.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866861.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866936.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866936.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
coredump wrote:As others have said. No, you cannot do this in the opponents phase. Only on your turn.


so basically your ignoring the FAQ and playing rules as you think they are INTENDED to be played.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866947.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866947.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
Timmah wrote:
coredump wrote:As others have said. No, you cannot do this in the opponents phase. Only on your turn.


so basically your ignoring the FAQ and playing rules as you think they are INTENDED to be played.
dont be a douche bag... hes playing the way we all know it works as opposed to reading the way you want it to work into a poorly written FAQ.
it says any assault phase meaning any of your assault phases.
it was a poor choice that they didnt think to specify that you cant do it in your opponents turn.
i guess they figured people would know that.... silly GW.

this one is as bad as the argument over whether or not IG orders can be issued in the opponents turn because it says any....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866961.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866961.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
usernamesareannoying wrote:
Timmah wrote:
coredump wrote:As others have said. No, you cannot do this in the opponents phase. Only on your turn.


so basically your ignoring the FAQ and playing rules as you think they are INTENDED to be played.
dont be a douche bag...

hes playing the way we all know it works as opposed to reading the way you want it to work into a poorly written FAQ.


it says any assault phase meaning any of your assault phases.
it was a poor choice that they didnt think to specify that you cant do it in your opponents turn.
i guess they figured people would know that.... silly GW.

this one is as bad as the argument over whether or not IG orders can be issued in the opponents turn because it says any....


really? how do you know it works that way? Did you write the codex/faq? Any assault phase =! your assault phase last I checked.

We have a thing call RAW for a reason. So people don't go interpretting the answer for stuff. The popular answer or most accepted answer is not always correct.

Have a judge tell you that, "thats the way the rule is intended to work" in a tournament and have it cost you the game. Then tell me if you would rather play RAI or RAW.

In my book if you are playing RAI no matter how ludicrous the RAW is, then you are playing house rules and not 40k.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866981.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866981.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?

I find it so hypocritical of the posters on this forum to harp on RAW so much and then claim someone is being a DB for following clear language, regardless if consensus says otherwise.

Besides, the warp spiders are a crap unit anyway. IMO this FAQ is a reasonable and much needed improvement. I don't understand the strong contention against the FAQ as written.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866985.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/866985.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? FAQ does not fully supplant the rules in the codex, but is intended to clarify them. The rules in the codex only allow warp jumps during your own turn. The rules in the fAQ say you may do so in any assault phase that you are not either assaulting an enemy unit, or engaged in combat.

When you combine the two, you may warp jump in any of your own assault phases during which you are not assaulting or already engaged in assault.

Should they be written more clearly and only in one place? Sure they should. But that's the rules we got.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867079.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867079.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? GW part. Its as if they don't even proof read what they wrote.

I blame the American Education system and its poor emphasis on understanding the English Language.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867098.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867098.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
willydstyle wrote:The FAQ does not fully supplant the rules in the codex, but is intended to clarify them. The rules in the codex only allow warp jumps during your own turn. The rules in the fAQ say you may do so in any assault phase that you are not either assaulting an enemy unit, or engaged in combat.

When you combine the two, you may warp jump in any of your own assault phases during which you are not assaulting or already engaged in assault.

Should they be written more clearly and only in one place? Sure they should. But that's the rules we got.

Perfect summary. When arguing rules, it frequently gets overlooked that no one rule exists in a vacuum. Fitting a rule into the context of the entire game often completely changes what the answer looks like it would be. This is one such case.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867130.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867130.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? FAQ replaces the rule in the rulebook.

In this case the rule book says one thing and the FAQ says something contrary.

Rulebook: They can jump in your assault phase
FAQ: They can jump in any assault phase

notice that the 2 points are contradicting. They don't compliment each other at all.

That being said I believe GW clarifying their own rulebook in the FAQ makes it trump the codex rule.

Remember GW is clarifying their own rule. They know what is intended by the rule because they wrote the codex. You, on the other hand, did not.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867181.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867181.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
The FAQ is very clear with the word "ANY"

p.s i dont even play eldar so dont go there :p Orks ftw]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867287.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867287.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
Timmah wrote:I can think of plenty of times that the FAQ replaces the rule in the rulebook.

In this case the rule book says one thing and the FAQ says something contrary.

Rulebook: They can jump in your assault phase
FAQ: They can jump in any assault phase

notice that the 2 points are contradicting. They don't compliment each other at all.

That being said I believe GW clarifying their own rulebook in the FAQ makes it trump the codex rule.

Remember GW is clarifying their own rule. They know what is intended by the rule because they wrote the codex. You, on the other hand, did not.


Yes, but those are, or should be, errata, and not FAQs. In this case, the FAQ is referring to, but not replacing, the rule in the Eldar codex. If you only read the FAQ and don't apply it to the codex rule, then you are cherrypicking the rules you want to use. The FAQ is only clarifying that you don't have to be within 6" of an enemy to use the warp jump.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867306.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867306.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
willydstyle wrote:
Timmah wrote:I can think of plenty of times that the FAQ replaces the rule in the rulebook.

In this case the rule book says one thing and the FAQ says something contrary.

Rulebook: They can jump in your assault phase
FAQ: They can jump in any assault phase

notice that the 2 points are contradicting. They don't compliment each other at all.

That being said I believe GW clarifying their own rulebook in the FAQ makes it trump the codex rule.

Remember GW is clarifying their own rule. They know what is intended by the rule because they wrote the codex. You, on the other hand, did not.


Yes, but those are, or should be, errata, and not FAQs. In this case, the FAQ is referring to, but not replacing, the rule in the Eldar codex. If you only read the FAQ and don't apply it to the codex rule, then you are cherrypicking the rules you want to use.


As I showed before, the rules between the codex and faq contradict each other. One say ANY one says YOURS. Because they contradict eachother they can not be clarifying each other. We take the FAQ ruling then because it is an amendment to the rulebook.


willydstyle wrote:The FAQ is only clarifying that you don't have to be within 6" of an enemy to use the warp jump.


How do you know what the FAQ is doing? Did you write it? Again we have strict RAW for a reason.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867370.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867370.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? RAW."

I say that about FAQs because for the most part they are intended to clarify, not to re-write rules. The times that GW does re-write or make new rules in FAQs (outside of errata) is merely evidence of poor rules writing.

So here, we have a rule, and a clarification. Since the clarification does not re-write the previously written rule, it interacts with it, so we apply both of the rules, not simply the one that you choose to apply.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867471.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867471.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
FAQ makes clarifications on existing rules. The rule itself was never, and still hasn't technically changed, but an instance clarified.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867566.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867566.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
Timmah wrote:They know what is intended by the rule because they wrote the codex. You, on the other hand, did not.

two can play that game... how do you know what their intentions are?

using the move in ANY assault phase changes a core fundamental of the game where the interpretation of it meaning any of YOUR assault phases does not break any mechanics.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867631.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867631.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? IG orders on opponents turn" argument?

If Warp Spiders can jump in the enemies turn, the entire "you-go-I-go" game system goes out the window. Suddenly, Carnifexen, Obliterators, Fzorgle Princes, Tzeentch Daemon Princes (Chaos Daemons ones), and IG are firing in the enemies turns as well. Oh, and Land Raiders with the beautiful Power of the Machine Spirit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867675.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
"The move can be made in any assault phase during which the Warp Spiders are not assaulting or fighting in assault." FAQ

This seems ambiguous, until you look at the text for Jetbikes:

"All eldar jetbikes... are allowed to move 6' in the assault phase, even if they don't assault."

I have not seen anyone make the claim that jetbikes can move in your opponents assault phase. Based on this precedent, Warp Spiders cannot use their 2nd jump in their opponents assault phase, only their own because the wording is the same.

The FAQ's use of "any" is unfortunate because of the confusion it causes but

This also has the benefit of being consistent with the play style of the unit from 3rd edition and on.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867689.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867689.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
Durandal wrote:"If unengaged, the unit may make a second jump during the assault phase instead of assaulting." - Eldar Codex

"The move can be made in any assault phase during which the Warp Spiders are not assaulting or fighting in assault." FAQ

This seems ambiguous, until you look at the text for Jetbikes:

"All eldar jetbikes... are allowed to move 6' in the assault phase, even if they don't assault."

I have not seen anyone make the claim that jetbikes can move in your opponents assault phase. Based on this precedent, Warp Spiders cannot use their 2nd jump in their opponents assault phase, only their own because the wording is the same.

The FAQ's use of "any" is unfortunate because of the confusion it causes but

This also has the benefit of being consistent with the play style of the unit from 3rd edition and on.



Again, my problem with this is that the codex and the FAQ contradict each other given the wording used in the FAQ.
I don't think anyone would disagree with me on this.

Rulebook: They can jump in your assault phase
FAQ: They can jump in any assault phase

Notice the contradiction. Any assault phase, meaning any any assault phase. (it DOES NOT say "any of your assault phases")

So now that we agree there is a contradiction, what does this mean?
It means we must choose one of the rulings to use. You can't pick half of one and half of the other.

I would argue that we use the FAQ as it essentially and updated/clarifying rules text document.


usernamesareannoying wrote:
Timmah wrote:They know what is intended by the rule because they wrote the codex. You, on the other hand, did not.

two can play that game... how do you know what their intentions are?
using the move in ANY assault phase changes a core fundamental of the game where the interpretation of it meaning any of YOUR assault phases does not break any mechanics.


I am not interpreting the word ANY. I am taking it at face value. I added no prefix or anything else to it.

Notice:
My argument: This can be used in ANY assault phase. (nothing added to GW's wording)
Counter argument: This can be used in ANY "of your" assault phases. (notice how you have modified the meaning.)



willydstyle wrote:Your interpretation of two rules which contradict is not "strict RAW."
I say that about FAQs because for the most part they are intended to clarify, not to re-write rules. The times that GW does re-write or make new rules in FAQs (outside of errata) is merely evidence of poor rules writing.
So here, we have a rule, and a clarification. Since the clarification does not re-write the previously written rule, it interacts with it, so we apply both of the rules, not simply the one that you choose to apply.


Notice how the rules contradict each other.
One gives a specific time it can be used and the other gives a broad time it can be used.

For instance:

I can go to the store at 2
I can go to the store at any time

Notice how neither clarifies the other.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867786.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867786.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? GW claims that they don't change the rules with FAQs, but re-write them. So, given that the FAQ is not supposed to re-write the rule, claiming that it allows you to break the restrictions that are written in the codices is in error.

Also, there is precedent of other rules (look up the rules for monstrous creatures shooting weapons) where it is written that you may do things in "any" phase, but where given a system that you need specific permission to do things in your opponent's turn, they do not allow you to perform those actions in "any" phase truly, but any of your own phases. I'd suggest taking it up with GW and asking them to write better rules.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867931.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867931.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
willydstyle wrote:I never claimed that it was well written. I'm simply pointing out that GW claims that they don't change the rules with FAQs, but re-write them. So, given that the FAQ is not supposed to re-write the rule, claiming that it allows you to break the restrictions that are written in the codices is in error.

Also, there is precedent of other rules (look up the rules for monstrous creatures shooting weapons) where it is written that you may do things in "any" phase, but where given a system that you need specific permission to do things in your opponent's turn, they do not allow you to perform those actions in "any" phase truly, but any of your own phases. I'd suggest taking it up with GW and asking them to write better rules.


As I stated before, You would need to decide whether or not to use the FAQ as again its just answers to questions.

I said I would because it seems like its GW clarifying their own rules. However you can play it however you want. I am just saying that the FAQ and codex contradict each other and you need to pick which to use.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867969.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867969.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
RustyKnight wrote:Isn't this exactly the same as the old "IG orders on opponents turn" argument?

If Warp Spiders can jump in the enemies turn, the entire "you-go-I-go" game system goes out the window. Suddenly, Carnifexen, Obliterators, Fzorgle Princes, Tzeentch Daemon Princes (Chaos Daemons ones), and IG are firing in the enemies turns as well. Oh, and Land Raiders with the beautiful Power of the Machine Spirit.


The difference here is that there is an entry under faqs and errata that specifically changes the rule wording from "THE assault phase" to "ANY assault phase."

THE assault phase implies "The assault phase of your turn"

it doesnt make quite as much sense if you change that word to any. "ANY assault phase of your turn"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867977.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/867977.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
Timmah, this game is based on a you-go-I-go system. You need specific permission to break that cycle. A generic "any assault phase" isn't specific enough. If it was, I already listed half a dozen other ridiculous things that start happening. This isn't a "RaW vs. RaI" deal, this is a "questionable RaW that breaks the way the game is played".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868006.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868006.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
It is a turn based system. You may not do anything in your opponents turn without specific permission. There are plenty of examples of how GW grants this permission. The wording in the FAQ in question here is not one of them.

You can argue that by looking at this rule to the exclusion of all others it works in your opponents turn, and I would agree. When you use it inclusively with the rest of the game though, it does not.

By RAW, looking at nothing but the sentence in the FAQ, you can use this ability in your opponents turn.
By RAW, looking at this sentence in the FAQ inclusive of the rest of the rules and in context thereof, you may not use this ability in your opponents turn.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868104.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868104.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
FAQ is clarification, not change. You're even focusing on the wrong part of the clarification.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868167.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868167.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
Kaaihn wrote:Timmah:

It is a turn based system. You may not do anything in your opponents turn without specific permission. There are plenty of examples of how GW grants this permission. The wording in the FAQ in question here is not one of them.

You can argue that by looking at this rule to the exclusion of all others it works in your opponents turn, and I would agree. When you use it inclusively with the rest of the game though, it does not.

By RAW, looking at nothing but the sentence in the FAQ, you can use this ability in your opponents turn.
By RAW, looking at this sentence in the FAQ inclusive of the rest of the rules and in context thereof, you may not use this ability in your opponents turn.


I love how even though I conceded that you need to choose how you want to play it. Not one of you will even admit that the two wordings contradict each other, no matter how obvious it is.
Anyways its pointless to even have this discussion if you refuse to budge from your position no matter what proof is shown.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868173.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868173.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
I blame the American Education system and its poor emphasis on understanding the English Language.


Pretty sure GW is based out of the UK]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868220.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868220.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
Timmah wrote:
I love how even though I conceded that you need to choose how you want to play it. Not one of you will even admit that the two wordings contradict each other, no matter how obvious it is.
The two wording do contradict each other. Not that that means anything. There's still only one way to play it.
Timmah wrote:Anyways its pointless to even have this discussion if you refuse to budge from your position no matter what proof is shown.
Pot, meet kettle?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868225.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868225.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
RustyKnight wrote:
Timmah wrote:
I love how even though I conceded that you need to choose how you want to play it. Not one of you will even admit that the two wordings contradict each other, no matter how obvious it is.
The two wording do contradict each other. Not that that means anything. There's still only one way to play it.
Timmah wrote:Anyways its pointless to even have this discussion if you refuse to budge from your position no matter what proof is shown.
Pot, meet kettle?


Except I did change my point of view after I reread the FAQ/errata section of GW's website.

Anyways my only point was that the two wordings contradict each other and you and your opponent need to decide how you want to play it.
In a tournament I would guess they would stick to the rulebook over the FAQ.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868246.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868246.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
Timmah wrote:I love how even though I conceded that you need to choose how you want to play it. Not one of you will even admit that the two wordings contradict each other, no matter how obvious it is.

I don't admit there is a contradiction because there is not one. You are interpreting a rule incorrectly by focusing solely on it, rather than using the rule in context to the entire ruleset.

You can find all sorts of contradictions if you cherry pick things and look at them to the exclusion of all other relevant material. None of those contradictions actually exist though; you are thinking they do because you are looking at something in a vacuum that cannot be properly interpreted in that vacuum.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868249.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868249.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
Timmah wrote:
Except I did change my point of view after I reread the FAQ/errata section of GW's website.
But you still cling to the idea that your interpretation of the FAQ is correct.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868257.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868257.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
RustyKnight wrote:
Timmah wrote:
Except I did change my point of view after I reread the FAQ/errata section of GW's website.
But you still cling to the idea that your interpretation of the FAQ is correct.


No, I believe the FAQ to be very poorly worded. Note, it is answering a question, but through poor choice of words, expanding on the ability in question. (whether GW meant to do this or not, their answer did per pure RAW)
Just because a specific question is asked, that doesn't mean only that one can be answered.

EX:
Did you go to walmart? Yes, I went to walmart and target.

Now you wouldn't say that I did not go to target solely because you didn't ask if I did, would you?

Now lets expand the FAQ question:

Can you make the "jump" with spiders even if they can't assault?
Yes, spiders can jump during ANY assault phase. Notice this could be broken out to. "Yes, spiders can jump during your assault phase and your opponents assault phase." (instead of saying any, you are listing all of the possible assault phases) All without changing the meaning.




So I still believe my interpretation of the FAQ to be correct.


Hence I am left to the position that it must be decided on by a judge or you and your opponent depending on the venue.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868299.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868299.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
unistoo wrote:you must be able to assault in order to 'trade' that move for an extra jump.

*Bzzzzzzt*, wrong answer, by that rationale you would have to premeasure all assaults, because you wouldn't be eligible to use the move unless you CAN make an assault...
If we further extend that rationale to run & shooting which are worded similarly, you would need to have guns, be in range to shoot before you can use 'Run' move... Go ahead and tell that nid player his gaunts can no longer run because they don't have guns.

Taking a warp jump is the same as saying 'this unit will not make an assault this turn'.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868964.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868964.page GMT Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868983.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/868983.page GMT Re:Warp jump in "ANY" assault phase?
nostromo wrote:
unistoo wrote:you must be able to assault in order to 'trade' that move for an extra jump.

*Bzzzzzzt*, wrong answer, by that rationale you would have to premeasure all assaults, because you wouldn't be eligible to use the move unless you CAN make an assault...
If we further extend that rationale to run & shooting which are worded similarly, you would need to have guns, be in range to shoot before you can use 'Run' move... Go ahead and tell that nid player his gaunts can no longer run because they don't have guns.

Taking a warp jump is the same as saying 'this unit will not make an assault this turn'.


Oh I'm sorry, I needed your answer in the form of a question.

Did you read the rest of my post, or just jump right in? As I pointed out in that very post that is indeed the RAW that the FAQ is correcting - It was 'possible' to interpret the original rule in that manner, hence the question in the FAQ designed to clarify that you can indeed make a warp jump in an assault phase, as long as you don't assault. What I was showing was the process of misunderstanding that led to this whole (vaguely silly) question. At the time I considered editing my post for extra clarity on my point, but decided against it because I thought the discussion was basically done (ha!).

It's been said before, but it's worth pointing out again: FAQs refine rules, Errata change rules. This 'argument' is stemming from a very specific interpretation of a single word in an FAQ - and is (charitably) a grasp at straws.

EDIT: many times for the making of the gooder read-ness]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/869142.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/249818/869142.page GMT