<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "[1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Farseer w/ Runes of warding, Mind War, Fortune, stones, jetbike ( 170 )
5x Warlocks, jetbikes, w/ Destructor (3), Embolden (1), Enhance (1) ( 275 )

5x Fire Dragons ( 80 )
Wave Serpent ( 140 )
T-L EML, shuriken cannon upgrade, spirit stones

5x Fire Dragons ( 80 )
Wave Serpeant ( 140 )
T-L EML, shruiken cannon upgrade, spirit stones

5xDire Avengers ( 60 )
Wave Serpeant ( 145 )
T-L Bright Lance, spirit stones

5x Dire Avengers ( 60 )
Wave Serpeant ( 145 )
T-L Bright Lance, spirit stones

5x Dire Avengers ( 60 )
Wave Serpent – ( 145 )
T-L Bright Lance, spirit stones

Fire Prism - 115

Fire Prism - 115

Fire Prism - 115

Total : 1845
Models : 31
Tanks : 8
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/874703.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/874703.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Eldrad, however, seems like a waste. The powers that need line of sight will be a waste, and you don't really need to relocate tanks.

Take two autarchs instead, and stick them in with your squads- the extra points can be used for more banshees or fire dragons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/874760.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/874760.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Plus, tactically, Eldrad's divination can effectively let me alter my setup to counter my opponent's deployment and create a mix-match advantage in my favor.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/874776.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/874776.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Emp. wrote:I really would like to keep somesort of psycher in the list for Doom/Mind War, so if I were to drop Eldrad it would be in favor or a Farseer and an Autarch, not two autarchs. But may I ask what you had in mind as to the autarch gear ups?

Plus, tactically, Eldrad's divination can effectively let me alter my setup to counter my opponent's deployment and create a mix-match advantage in my favor.


I would use fusion guns. The preference on the helmet/CC weapon is up to you.

yeah, you could keep a Guide/Doom farseer. that would work too. I just think that Eldrad is too expensive for what he can do in this kind of list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/874797.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/874797.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/874988.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/874988.page GMT Re:[1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
I find your lack of Spirit Stones disturbing. On the Fire Prisms. I'm guessing you were tight for points, but they're a innexpensive upgrade which can mean the difference between life and death, not only for the tanks in question but for the battle plan as a whole.

If you like Eldrad, and there's a lot to like as he's a LOT better than any normal Farseer, then consider taking a foot Seer Council with Eldrad mounted in a 110 point Wave Serpent. Yriel makes an absolutely evil addition to this already killer unit. I like how you've gone with the less common jetbike Council though.

Something else I'd suggest would be to get rid of the EML Serpent. Then replace one Fire Prism with a Falcon (Holo Fields, Stones, EML) to carry the DAVU. I'd also be inclined to buy Holo Fields for the Fire Prisms and Falcon, and replace the 4th DAVU with a 5 man Fire Dragon squad. Only 20 points more for a unit of the best tank killers in the game. You'd have one less tank, but what you had would be much more resilient. You'd actually have to drop a Banshee or two to afford this, though although I was costing for a 180 point Falcon and two 160 point Prisms. The choice is yours really, I don't know that one way is really better than the other. If you havn't bought the minis yet, it'll save you some money to field one less tank lol

You over costed by 15 points on the Banshees ride, by the way. I'm guessing you were either paying for Scatter Lasers or Star Engines.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/877036.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/877036.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/885728.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/885728.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar all of the anti-infantry fire that your opponent has, as it's your only option not mounted in a tank. I'd really be inclined to throw them in a Serpent to go with the everything-in-tanks theme. This will leave alot of your opponents guns with nothing to shoot at for at least some of the game.

Other than that it looks good. Still no stones on the Prisms, and still taking DAVUs in Serpents, but if that works for you then I guess that works for you lol]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887681.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887681.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
neverXmore wrote:Your bike council is going to take all of the anti-infantry fire that your opponent has, as it's your only option not mounted in a tank. I'd really be inclined to throw them in a Serpent to go with the everything-in-tanks theme. This will leave alot of your opponents guns with nothing to shoot at for at least some of the game.

That's quite true.
Many weapons out there are cannot harm or are inefficient vs. fast skimmers.
I'd follow the Lanchester square law that roughly states that for X skimmers you need X^2 heavy weapons to take them down. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887764.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887764.page GMT Re:[1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887791.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887791.page GMT Re:[1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Kirbinator wrote:So you're asking if another Tri-prism Mechdar list is good?

Strong builds are tier 2, while weaker ones are tier 3. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887793.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887793.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar FoF they're going nowhere fast. On jetbikes, I get my 18" moves, or my 24" and a rerollable 3+. It's more resilient for the council itself, and provides more movement options in the long run.

wuestenfux wrote:Strong builds are tier 2, while weaker ones are tier 3.

Justify your claim please.


Kirbinator wrote:So you're asking if another Tri-prism Mechdar list is good?

No, im not asking if it's good, I know it's good. I'm asking if they're any changes people feel would be adequate to make it better.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887873.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887873.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Emp. wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:Strong builds are tier 2, while weaker ones are tier 3.

Justify your claim please.


Well, in the German GT played three weeks ago, there were 75 players and the best Eldar player was ranked at position 22.
No composition or painting scores.
Some of the Eldar players were veterans and well-known in the tournament scene.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887891.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887891.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar 2 Embolden is needed because you can not afford to have you expensive unit run away and it lets you reroll your fortune check if you fail and more warlocks is more hitting power and more wounds. Runes of Witnessing if you can find the points is also good because you do not want to fail fortune.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887909.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887909.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Avariel wrote:Double up on Embolden in the seer council and add more warlocks. At least 7 or 8 warlocks. Drop 1 Destructor for 2nd Embolden Drop Fire Dragons down to 5 and drop Mind War and Spirit Stones to make points for 2 more Warlocks.
2 Embolden is needed because you can not afford to have you expensive unit run away and it lets you reroll your fortune check if you fail and more warlocks is more hitting power and more wounds. Runes of Witnessing if you can find the points is also good because you do not want to fail fortune.


Mind War + 3 Dragons + Destructor > a lot more hitting power and more wounds than 2 warlock.

2 Emboldens is a bit overkill, and I don't need RoWitnessing while Embolden is there.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887919.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887919.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
maybe I'm misunderstanding you, or vice-versa. When you say "strong builds are tier 2, while weaker ones are tier 3," I considered that in response to what Kirbinator said. So, you are saying that strong builds have 2 prisms and weaker ones have 3? Or is it something else and I'm misunderstanding you?

Well, it has nothing to do with the number of Prisms.
I remember that the guy I battled had 2 Prisms each. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887992.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/887992.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888002.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888002.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Emp. wrote:Than what did you mean before saying good builds are tier 2 and weaker ones are tier 3? I'm confused.

Confused?
I found that mech Eldar armies with lots of skimmers are tier 2.
Those foot slogging builds are eventually weaker and are tier 3. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888107.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888107.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888143.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888143.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar GT, 22nd placed out of 75:


Eldrad
Yriel
9 Warlocks 1 Spear, 3 Embolden, 2 Enhance
in Serpent with Shuricencannon and Spirit Stones
10 Storm Guardians with 2 Flamers
in Serpent with Brightlance and Spirit Stones
5 Dire Avengers
in Serpent with Brightlance and Spirit Stones
5 Dire Avengers
1 Falcon with Eldar Missile Launcher, Holofield, Spirit Stones
2 Fire Prisms with Holofield and Spirit Stones

12 KP, 37 models

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888145.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888145.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
My only tip would be the tip that said Saim Hann army player threw out, try changing the dire avengers in one of the wave serpants for Howling Banschies. You might have to test that out and see if it works or not, but if it does then that tank might end up doing a bit more than camping objectives.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888243.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888243.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888881.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/888881.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Emp. wrote:The only thing is though it can't be a 1-1 swap, the banshees are more points. So where could I free that up to even try it?


Play a 2000 point game with a friend . (edit: you know, before the tournament) Again, see if they work first before you commit to using them in a tournament.

Looking over your list again, I don't see this list wanting to get into assault very much, so the howling banishes might not do what they are meant to.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/889311.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/889311.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
starbomber109 wrote:
Emp. wrote:The only thing is though it can't be a 1-1 swap, the banshees are more points. So where could I free that up to even try it?


Play a 2000 point game with a friend . Again, see if they work first before you commit to using them in a tournament.

Looking over your list again, I don't see this list wanting to get into assault very much, so the howling banishes might not do what they are meant to.


First off, it's an 1850 tournament. Not a 1850, oh let's just play 2k for fun game.

Second, are you sure you're commenting on the right list? I'm not using any Howling Banshees, my only combat squad is the seer council.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/889383.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/889383.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
You need to find a friend who won't give away any secrets and practice for this tornoment by playing some games with a bigger points setup than the tournoment so you can both try out things and see if they work or not with the rest of your army, then you can figure out if they work, and if/when you put HB in there, you may discover then that they don't do what they are supposed to do.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890281.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890281.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar DA squad, drop your fire dragons down to 5 and take a 2nd squad of 5 fire dragons.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890289.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890289.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
starbomber109 wrote:Ok, I'm being an idiot and shouldn't post. Sorry, I needed to be more clear.

You need to find a friend who won't give away any secrets and practice for this tornoment by playing some games with a bigger points setup than the tournoment so you can both try out things and see if they work or not with the rest of your army, then you can figure out if they work, and if/when you put HB in there, you may discover then that they don't do what they are supposed to do.


Uhh...yea...so...I don't plan on putting HB's in the list, I've already tried how they do, hence the list not including them. What exactly are you talking about? If I want to try something out I'll swap them into the list, not add stuff, that doesn't tell me if something flows at the same point value. That's not a good way of trying things out.

Timmah wrote:get rid of a DA squad, drop your fire dragons down to 5 and take a 2nd squad of 5 fire dragons.


I think this I might do.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890389.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890389.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar EML + Shuriken Cannon for some extra shooting/ versatility.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890403.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890403.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar BLs total, the 2 dragon squad serpents I could turn into EML + shuri-cannons. Updated first post, that's what it looks like with those changes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890506.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890506.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar BL's. When your front armor is already 11 or 12 they are kinda over costed. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890562.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890562.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
I personally think the guys inside of the tank are more important than the tank itself usually.

For example, I think fleshing out the fire dragon squad gets you further than buying the bright lance on the Serpent.

Also on the theme of more bodies / tanks on the table, I know people are hyped up on bike seer councils recently but I've played a ton of games both way and I think the warlocks in a waveserpent are superior. It's too easy to gack the farseer and lose the squad when they are on bikes and it's too expensive to equip them like you want too.

I think with eldar the better lists are filled with big impact units.

Think 10 fire dragons with the exarch with the flamer with crack shot.

Or 8 warlocks 1 enhance, 7 destructors.

You start paring these with doom and fortune and you have squads that simply nuke any army in the game.

The other concept that is usually missed is that you can guide, forutne and doom from inside a transport.

So a farseer can keep a guardian squad in a fight without being in the hth or you can just say screw it an take Eldrad.

Also you are right, scoring waveserpents are great but get knocked down in hth. Holofields work in hth. So a falcon is actually a pretty good upgrade with the flying bunker concept.

Also remember you can fortune the tanks cover save making a tank have a 4++.

Which all culminates into a squad of 5 dire avengers in a falcon, with holo fields and farseer with fortune, runes of warding and doom.

Seems expensive, but it makes the whole army better.

Final note, I think fire prisms are better with holofields. Yes I know it means the guns dies more, but consider what you can do with a fire prism without a gun.

It contests, it tank shocks, and it rams. Holofields basically enchances all of those functions and it's one of the best hulls in the game to do these things.

Seems dumb but now think tank shocking a cari on an objective. If he doesn;t attack you, the carni is off the objective, if it does it's almost assuredly dead.

My point is simple the fire prism is better alive and not shooting, than it is cheaper and dead. Plus you save KPs.

Pete

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890620.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890620.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Bikers are way more mobile than wave serpent transport as it takes a turn after every squad you kill to get back into the transport and move on.


That being said, I think 10 DA in transports would be better than 5 as at least if you lost a transport or when you disembarked you pack a decent punch with your troops.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890652.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
You have two units of dragons in serpents for 440 points that are completely and utterly useless...

5 dragons can tank hunt amazingly and suck at everything else in the game.

9 fusion guns + 1 re roll wound hvy flamer can tank hunt better than any unit in the game, can eliminate almost any elite unit in the game and do a solid amount of damage against a horde unit. It's not overkill it's flexible and cheap.

If you drop the twin bright lance on the tank, and spend the points on the squad, you get a much better combo IMO.

As for bike warlocks, remember you can't fortune your bikes if you want to turbo boost... Also bikes die in hth. They are really best at harassing and being a fire magnet. You only throw them into hth if you REALLY need a tar pit.

At 5 bikes they don't win combat....

My warlocks win combats, tank hunt better, and destroy you will 7 hvy flamer templates. Think Doom. And they cost the same points.

Yes. My squad is more alpha strike in concept, but it also starts off the board and come zooming in a 24" (more if you star engine them) to nuke something. But if your saying you do more damage because you are more maneuverable... I call BS. footlocks throw a lot more attacks and a lot more destructors which should make up for the small uptick in harassing linked shuriken catapult fire power.

As for the 10 dire avengers... IF you go with the BL on the tack you are basically saying you aren't committing to the dire avengers. To shoot the tank you usually have to hug terrain or your get shot out of the sky. If you go 10 dires, drop the BL.

Overall Eldar troops are tough in a mech list.

For troops I currently run:
5 dires in a falcon with a farseer
10 storms with 2 flamers, (sometimes a warlock with destructor) (Good squad for Yriel or an autarch)
10 guardian defenders in a waveserpent with a BL.

runs a lot better than when I was using 5 or 10 dires in waveserpents with BL.

Pete

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890808.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890808.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar
Splitting them into 2 groups of 5 is by far the best call. It makes you buy another wave serpent but who wouldn't want another one.

Your squad nukes 1 thing and then is either destroyed or ignored the rest of the game. So your 400 ish points for their one tank. Wave serpent gets shot on side/back armor and your 10 man squad is attempting to foot slog it.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890854.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890854.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar

Seriously though, mech Eldar do as much damage as possible in as little turns as possible. That's why units like 10 warlock, or 10 fire dragons or yriel work great.

They reduce incoming fire by playing less turns. Plus you pick up a huge deployment advantage and concentration of force advantage.

As for the fire dragons... First of all they are less than 300 points tooled out and that includes the transport. And if you blow up the transport at the first opportunity they are usually already 24" on the board (or more with star engines).... But yes. Tanks die. Troops get stranded.

Remember fire dragons fleet and have melta bombs. Most people forget this when they ignore them. This is yet another situation where 10 is a lot better. Your bound to get some hits even on vehicles movign more than 6.

What usually happens is that you are close enough to the transport you were hunting. The enemy then unloads the squad out of the transport and trashes the firedragons.

Which is great as you can then you go torch the squad that you were trying to get to in the first place.

If they ignore you and you have no target, you go to ground and hide for a 3+I, and you can play taxi transport with another unit's ride.

But yes. You get the point. With Eldar you nuke a unit and then go hide or zoom away.

Eldar are a thinking man's army. You simply will never do things like clear 200 orks for a massacre, but you can kill an entire half of an army in a turn or two if things work out right, which might be enough to give you a win.

Worst case scenario you can generally spam the crap out of objectives for the draw.

Pete

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890996.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/890996.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar EML + shuri-cannons are for, plus the council can wipe a squad of boys in 1 turn, going in with destructors and jetbike shuri-cats than charging with 3 attacks each on the charge and he needs to hit that aweful save. It's really not as tough as you'd imagine, I don't plan on wiping them, but I only need to drop enough troops to give me the advantage in holding at least 1 more objective than him while my anti-tank focuses on taking out his tanks and his anti-tank. Taking a council doesn't put me at an offensive stand, it's more of a defensive army base in that I only go after what can actually go after me. Round 2; fire dragons more than not will be used as anti-troop (i.e. against terminators or any 3+ or better save models) and also against TMCs, MCs, and solo-ICs. Otherwise my anti-tank is in the form of the bright lances at #1, #2 in the EMLs, #3 if needbe is the prisms. The dragons dont just rush in on turn 1, I have no problems hanging back playing it safe. I'd rather keep my KPs while gaining from my opponent. 10 Dragons is completely overkill and mixing a DBF is not as good a combo as you'd imagine. If you need a flamer, use the warlocks destructors. And on foot (as a side note), against a good horde army you'll never get that flamer off. A good WAAAGH and the Orks will FoF and hit you in combat before you get the chance to use that template. Than you're solely at a disadvantage. On jetbikes, the speed lets me dictate when we hit combat, and gives me the better option of using my skills.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/891099.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/891099.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar TL BLs on the others. Generally Eldar AT sucks. Only Dragons are halfway good. But at least our TL BLs on serpents have a 17% chance against AV12. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/891160.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/891160.page GMT [1850] Upcoming tournament Eldar EML+cannon serpents as anti-infantry, putting off the blast on the EML combined with the cannon means I can still move 12" and fire both.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/891237.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250380/891237.page GMT