<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. GT Heats. Problem is that I do not know what one to take or which one I like best:

Salamanders - 1500/1500

He'stan

5 Assault Terminators with TH/SS.
Land Raider Redeemer with Multi-Melta.

10 Tactical Marines with Flamer and Multi-Melta.
Rhino.
10 Tactical Marines with Flamer and Multi-Melta.
Rhino.

2 Land Speeder Tornado with Multi-Melta and Heavy Flamer.
2 Land Speeder Tornado with Multi-Melta and Heavy Flamer.

Dakka Predator.
Dakka Predator.



Crimson Fists - 1500/1500

Pedro Kantor.

6 Assault Terminators - 3 with LC, 3 with TH/SS.
Land Raider Crusader with Extra Armour and Multi-Melta.

5 Tactical Marines with 1 Combi-Melta.
Razorback with Twin-Linked Assault Cannon.

5 Tactical Marines with 1 Combi-Melta.
Razorback with Twin-Linked Assault Cannon.

5 Sternguard with Combi-Meltas.
Razorback with Twin-Linked Assault Cannon.

5 Sternguard with Combi-Meltas.
Razorback with Twin-Linked Assault Cannon.

Any help with this would be much obliged.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877055.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877055.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
With the right amount of patience and positioning I think this list is great against most armies at 1500... Tank heavy Imps may be a problem though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877085.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877085.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
Deuce11 wrote:I like the FIST list.

With the right amount of patience and positioning I think this list is great against most armies at 1500... Tank heavy Imps may be a problem though.


That's the main weakness I thought about too, but you can't win them all. If I took anything out of this list, I lose something that is good against other armies just to put something in against one type of army.

What would you suggest?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877123.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877123.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877157.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877157.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
You can comfortably take 3 Crusaders in 1500.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877163.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877163.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
Fearspect wrote:Do you have the points to give the Salamanders a Crusader instead? I would suggest that. The Landspeeders provide you with a lot more flexibility than the Crimson Fists list does.


Afraid not, I dropped down to a Redeemer because I couldn't afford the 4th Land Speeder. I do want to include the Crusader though.

Elessar wrote:Land Raiders have to be run in 2's, or more. One Raider is too much of a Fire Magnet for Melta to do it's job.

You can comfortably take 3 Crusaders in 1500.


Errrrrrm... in 1500???
Errrrrrm, yeah ok.
If I did that, I wouldn't have anything else in the army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877179.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877179.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. HT/SS, and ten Scouts. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877184.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877184.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
radiohazard wrote:
Deuce11 wrote:I like the FIST list.

With the right amount of patience and positioning I think this list is great against most armies at 1500... Tank heavy Imps may be a problem though.


That's the main weakness I thought about too, but you can't win them all. If I took anything out of this list, I lose something that is good against other armies just to put something in against one type of army.

What would you suggest?


off the top of my head the stern in razorback is
about 225+?

The HF/MM landspeeders are 70 each. You could get at least 3 of them. You know the benefits of them, you run them in the other list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877210.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877210.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. LR spam but with Calgur. Thank god its not Ultrasmurfs though, so its ok. But it will be a realy hard list to deal with.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877211.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877211.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
Deuce11 wrote:
radiohazard wrote:
Deuce11 wrote:I like the FIST list.

With the right amount of patience and positioning I think this list is great against most armies at 1500... Tank heavy Imps may be a problem though.


That's the main weakness I thought about too, but you can't win them all. If I took anything out of this list, I lose something that is good against other armies just to put something in against one type of army.

What would you suggest?


off the top of my head the stern in razorback is
about 225+?

The HF/MM landspeeders are 70 each. You could get at least 3 of them. You know the benefits of them, you run them in the other list.


Yeah I know how good they are, but the fist list needs the 2nd Sternguard squad to count as a scoring unit. With the squads being so small, dropping one would be a big mistake.


In regards to choosing which army to go for there are a few more factors that I should consider...

1 - PRICE.
This is the biggest factor. The Salamanders army is much cheaper than the Crimson Fists as the fists army requires the shoulder pads, forge world doors, 4 assault cannon sprues for the razorbacks (which are £12 ish EACH), the razorbacks themselves, the Combi-Meltas and all the base models required.
The Salamanders don't have any shoulder pads (so i'll be green stuffing the icons), forge world doors and FW Terminator Shoulder pads, Dreadnought Melta Gun and the base models.

2 - THE WIFE.
Number one has also got something to do with Number two. I know she would rather I get the cheaper of the two. At the end of the day she has the last word.

3 - EFFECTIVENESS.
Each list has it's merits and things I like. The Sallys have overwhelming amounts of Melta fire that is Twin Linked. It also looks cool on the battlefield and has that Strikeforce feel, which most Marine armies should have IMHO. The main weakness I can see is that it has only 2 scoring units (can they be split into ttwo combat squads each and still go in the same Rhino? if so, that solves my problem). The fists have my all time fave weapon in large numbers - The Assault Cannon and it has a lot of scoring units. downside to this is that this army cannot really stand-up to large amounts of tanks - Assault Cannons are good, but you have to roll like a god to really get through AV13-14 and pop a Tank off.

Thats it really, but as I cannot decide between the two, I'm going on the popular vote from you guys on Dakka Dakka.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877385.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877385.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877395.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877395.page GMT Re:What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877491.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877491.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877496.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877496.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877498.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877498.page GMT Re:What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877508.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877508.page GMT Re:What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
theo2009 wrote:I guess this shows how long I have been in the hobby but if you read the old army book for salamanders they where quite adamant in the fluff that they rarely used speeders. Then again I am probably wasting my time telling people to use the power list of the month fluffy.


I've been in the hobby since Rogue Trader and Space Crusade and it's true that they rarely use Land Speeders.

This is one of those times

Second - this list is for GT Heats for 2010.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877529.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877529.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. lols, Sallies is hardly FotM, and I've played since before that fluff existed, when Sallies were just green Nillas.

While I don't disagree that it's less fluffy to see them in every list, they still have an Assault Company. I'd happily play against them with only I3, as well, thanks.

If GW cared about that fluff, it'd have been mentioned in the new Dex, and there'd be a viable alternative to portable MMs. (No doubt you recall Attack Bikes not being very prevalent in the Chapter either)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ OP:
If taking Sniper Scouts, I think Telion is a must.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877535.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877535.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
Elessar wrote:If taking Sniper Scouts, I think Telion is a must.


Is there much point in taking Telion if all the scouts have Sniper Rifles?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877559.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877559.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. BS 6 also you allocate wounds to the squads you damage with him, and if he doesnt shoot you can use his BS 6 on the squads ML, or HB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More point in taking Telion if the scouts have snipers. His bolter is 2 shot 36" rending, BS 6 also you allocate wounds to the squads you damage with him, and if he doesnt shoot you can use his BS 6 on the squads ML, or HB.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877572.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877572.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. BS 6 also you allocate wounds to the squads you damage with him, and if he doesnt shoot you can use his BS 6 on the squads ML, or HB.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877573.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877573.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. BS 6 also you allocate wounds to the squads you damage with him, and if he doesnt shoot you can use his BS 6 on the squads ML, or HB.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877574.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877574.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
But here's a question...

If I drop the Dreadnought and Drop Pod (150 PTS in total), what would you add in?

I'm thinking one of these:

Scout squad with Sniper Rifles for the added scoring unit.

Anti-Infantry Predator.

Anything else I haven't thought of.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877638.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877638.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. ML.

ML lets you take Transports, as does the odd Rend.

Telion lets you take Nobs etc, and MCs go down easy.

Scoring is a huge boost.

Take 5 if you can get Camo, but not a 7th.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877754.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877754.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
For 150 Pts I can get 5 Scouts with Sniper Rifles and Camo Cloaks + Telion.

Thats not a great unit IMHO.

I don't think Telion is all that TBH.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877769.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877769.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. LR, so maybe 2x dakka preds if you can find the extra 20 points?

Then the list would look like this:

HQ

Vulkan
190

Elites

5x Assault termies, TH/SS-200
Landraider Redeemer, multi-melta

Troops

Tactical squad, flamer, MM, Rhino
Tactical squad, flamer, MM, Rhino

Fast Attack

2x Landspeeders, MM, HF

2x Landspeeders, MM, HF

Heavy Support

Dakka Predator
Dakka predator

Your five points over, with good anti-horde capablitys the MM's to pop multiple LR per turn, and there will be multiple LR's.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877867.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877867.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877876.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877876.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877902.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877902.page GMT Re:What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.

cannoness rory wrote: Salamanders do not use land speeders, I understand this is a competitive list, but you could at least TRY to keep it fluffy. Consider attack bikes or bike squads instead.


if you read the codex it says they dont use bikes in the same place it says they dont use land speeders ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877909.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877909.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
The reserve companys have speeders and bikes, and using them would be keeping to the fluff as long as you dont spam them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877910.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877910.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
Canonness Rory wrote:Salamanders do not use land speeders, I understand this is a competitive list, but you could at least TRY to keep it fluffy. Consider attack bikes or bike squads instead.


Actually Salamanders do use Land Speeders.

I quote from their Index Astartes Entry...

"The conditions on Nocturne are not conductive to training for high speed attack or using the anti-grav engines of Land Speeders, so the chapter employs relatively few of these specialized fast attack units."

Index Astartes IV - Salamanders.

Also to support my Land Speeders in my army...

"Though he [He'stan] no longer commands a company of his own, He'stan can draw upon any and all of the Salamanders' resources to aid in his search."

Space Marine Codex 5th Edition Page 93, Paragraph 3.


No more fluff arguments please.

Also...

Salamanders don't strictly have support companies as there are only 7 companies in total, each slightly larger than a regular Astartes Company. They have the 1st Company (The Firedrakes) and 6 others. The 4th company in particular is considered their greatest.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877959.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877959.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
Anyway, I don't believe he asked for fluff critiques.

Landspeeders are excellent utility. I have also had good luck with twin MM LSers. Those crazy things kill vehicles and big stuff dead. But then again, I run UMs with a 4th co captain (master of the armoury) that counts as Hestan ;-)

BS 3 scouts are very meh. Telion is awesome for picking off special weapons, PK/Fist models, etc. Think of the scouts as ablative wounds :-) Scouts are also scoring FWIW.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877984.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/877984.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
I'm a very fluffy player and try to pack in as much as I can.

I just read over and over again about the Scouts and the only thing I can make out that is good is Telion, but he is not a Salamander Space Marine and thus won't find a place in my army.

However...

I do like the idea of 2 Dakka Preds. I can find 5 PTS to shave off from somewhere.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878010.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878010.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
radiohazard wrote:

Actually Salamanders do use Land Speeders.

I quote from their Index Astartes Entry...

"The conditions on Nocturne are not conductive to training for high speed attack or using the anti-grav engines of Land Speeders, so the chapter employs relatively few of these specialized fast attack units."

Index Astartes IV - Salamanders.



That quote says they DONT use them...

radiohazard wrote:

Also to support my Land Speeders in my army...

"Though he [He'stan] no longer commands a company of his own, He'stan can draw upon any and all of the Salamanders' resources to aid in his search."

Space Marine Codex 5th Edition Page 93, Paragraph 3.




if the salamanders dont have any landspeeders in the first place how does this quote prove anything?

radiohazard wrote:


No more fluff arguments please.


oops...

radiohazard wrote:
Also...

Salamanders don't strictly have support companies as there are only 7 companies in total, each slightly larger than a regular Astartes Company. They have the 1st Company (The Firedrakes) and 6 others. The 4th company in particular is considered their greatest.


again that has no relavence to the topic ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878039.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878039.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
corpsesarefun wrote:
radiohazard wrote:

Actually Salamanders do use Land Speeders.

I quote from their Index Astartes Entry...

"The conditions on Nocturne are not conductive to training for high speed attack or using the anti-grav engines of Land Speeders, so the chapter employs relatively few of these specialized fast attack units."

Index Astartes IV - Salamanders.



That quote says they DONT use them...

radiohazard wrote:

Also to support my Land Speeders in my army...

"Though he [He'stan] no longer commands a company of his own, He'stan can draw upon any and all of the Salamanders' resources to aid in his search."

Space Marine Codex 5th Edition Page 93, Paragraph 3.




if the salamanders dont have any landspeeders in the first place how does this quote prove anything?

radiohazard wrote:


No more fluff arguments please.


oops...

radiohazard wrote:
Also...

Salamanders don't strictly have support companies as there are only 7 companies in total, each slightly larger than a regular Astartes Company. They have the 1st Company (The Firedrakes) and 6 others. The 4th company in particular is considered their greatest.


again that has no relavence to the topic


The first quote I made does say "employ relatively few". I believe you need to learn how to read as no where in that sentence does it say none.

Your reply to the second quote also proves you need to learn to read and look up relatively few as opposed to none and read the quote again as it does state (without quotes) that He'stan can call upon whatever he needs.

And finally, the last paprgraph was in relation to another board member stating his information about Salamander Support Companies.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878066.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878066.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
Hopefully I'll get a ticket next year, and get to go myself (not worth taking time off work and travelling 400 miles to watch...)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878069.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878069.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
Elessar wrote:I think the Sallie list is better, in case my opinion wasn't clear. Are you buying the lists from scratch?

Hopefully I'll get a ticket next year, and get to go myself (not worth taking time off work and travelling 400 miles to watch...)


I'm leaning towards the Sally list too actually, it has a lot more potential than the fists list.

Yeah i'm going to have to buy everything from scratch, hence I'm going in 2010 not 2009 (not enough time to paint stuff for 2009 lol).

What army are you thinking of taking Elessar?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878076.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878076.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.

I do hate it being merely 1500 though, given that the Irish GT will (AFAIK, and I've discussed it with the TO) be 1750, and the NI Tourny that, by 2011 will (hopefully) be a full GT is also 1750.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878083.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878083.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. SW are getting a LR with 3 Twin Linked Assault Cannons - which is a bit OTT.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878088.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878088.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
I've always wanted to play Wolves though, just never had the money before. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878095.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878095.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878106.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878106.page GMT What to choose, Salamanders or Crimson Fists @ 1500 PTS.
Canonness Rory wrote:This thread should have a poll.


I agree, but I dunno how to set it up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Put up the Poll and updated the Sally list.

Please vote.

I just added up how much the army will cost in total: £350 or there abouts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok we have a decision...

I'm going to use the Sally list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878120.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250537/878120.page GMT