Latest posts for the thread "Space Marine Honor Guard?"

Space Marine Honor Guard?

artyboy — GMT

On paper they look pretty good. Put them in a land raider and you've got a pretty mean CC unit that can do some damage in the shooting phase, too (if you arm enough of them with grenade launchers). They're really expensive, though. Terminators are probably more cost effective but you can actually fit 10 honor guard + a chapter master into a land raider. I was thinking that that alone might make them worth their points. Not much would be able to stand toe to toe with them. So when you take them do you bother with auxillary grenade launchers? How many relic blades do you take? Is it better to just run them with minimum upgrades? What say you?

Space Marine Honor Guard?

Canonness Rory — GMT

The problem is that they're not suriveable enough vs AP2 to be worth that many points TH/SS termies have a 3+ invuln save, regular terminators, for 5 points cheaper than aux grenade launcher honor guard, have a 5+ invuln.

The chapter banner makes them sort of worth it if you take a group of 10. 44 Power attacks on the charge is nothing to laugh at, with the chapter master connect to them makes them downright terrifying.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

artyboy — GMT

The chapter banner is what I figure edges them out over terminators. There aren't a whole lot of units out there with all that many power weapon attacks so the 2+ armor save will normally apply. Howling Banshees are the only unit that I can think of that will get to strike before them most of the time. You'll probably wipe out anything else before they get to attack if you get the charge. Then there's the fact that you can put them in a land raider rather than having to deep strike to get a full squad. Skip the grenade launchers and relic blades and you still have 55 power weapon attacks at I5, WS4, STR4 for 285 points if you charge. Coming out of a land raider you have a pretty good shot of pulling it off most of the time.

Re:Space Marine Honor Guard?

Mahu — GMT

I have thought about them (and am probably going to run some tommorrow). They are a huge points sink though.

What I was looking at was a Chapter Master w/ Thunderhammer, SS, Artificer Armor, a Librarian with Force Dome and Null Zone, and 8 Honor Guard w/ 2 Relic Blades, Thunderhammer on the Sergent, and Chapter Banner.

All of that costs 655 points! So you can see that I wouldn't dare run it under 2000 points. It's crazy when it hits though.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

Lord-Loss — GMT

I allways thought the best thing about thing was that they can use a razorback.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

MinMax — GMT

The only way to run Honour Guard is with a Force Dome Librarian. Without that 5+ Invulnerable save, they just get wiped out by a single Demolisher shot or Plasma salvo.

Which, coupled with the compulsory Chapter Master, means that both of your HQ choices in a normal game will be spoken for.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

Hollismason — GMT

A 10 man nob squad for like 250 points will eat them alive.
Banshees eat them alive.
Dark Eldar Wyches Eat them Alive.
5 LC terms for 200 eat them alive.
5 Chaos terms w/ nothing eat them alive.

Their just not that good even with the powerweapon and 2+ that pretty much any other HTH squad in contact kills them.

Re:Space Marine Honor Guard?

Shrike78 — GMT

I've never allowed any of the honor guard units to charge me, so I can't say for sure weather or not they're amazingly good for their points cost but there's an easy way to find out! time for MATH HAMMER!!!

I'll use Mr. Mahu's projected squad as an example, since they're not in a LR we can't assume that they will almost always charge so I'll pit them against an even number of assault terminators (7 TH SS, and 3 LC), lead by Calgar.

If honor guard charge

Bolt pistols 9(2/3x1/2x1/6)= .5 kills

Bolt pistol from Chapter master 1(5/6x1/2x1/6)=.08 unsaved wounds

Regular guard: 25(1/2x1/2x4/9)= 2.77 unsaved wounds

Honor guard with Relic blades 8(1/2x5/6x4/9)= 1.48 unsaved wounds

Librarian attacks 5(2/3x1/2x4/9) .774 unsaved wounds

3 LC termies respond 9(1/2x3/4x2/3) = 2.25 unsaved wounds

Chapter Master 5(2/3x5/6x4/9)= .987 unsaved wounds

Chapter Champion (attacks directed against Calgar) 5(3/4x35/36x3/4)= 2.91 unsaved wounds (i'm not sure about this, I don't have the rulebook in front of me, so I don't know what his invul save is)

Calgar 5(2/3x5/6x2/3)= 1.851 unsaved wounds

So round 1 is a very handy victory for the honor guard with 6 termies dead and Calgar too. I don't have time to run the number for what it would look like if the termies charged, but it all depends on weather or not the Libby can cast his null zone during the opponents turn, if he can't then I think that the honor guard would be hard pressed to hold the termies back.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

artyboy — GMT

Lord-Loss wrote:I allways thought the best thing about thing was that they can use a razorback.

Razorbacks are too easy to pop and you can't assault out of them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:A 10 man nob squad for like 250 points will eat them alive.

No. A fully kitted out nob squad with a warboss that costs around 500 or 600 points would probably beat them, though.

Hollismason wrote:Banshees eat them alive.

I mentioned this. That's why you avoid them. Even if you do get stuck in with them they still need 5s to wound. When you hit back you need 2s and 3s. They would hurt but I think that the honor guard would win. It just wouldn't be worth the victory...

Hollismason wrote:Dark Eldar Wyches Eat them Alive.

Uhh....seriously?

5 LC terms for 200 eat them alive.

If the honor guard got the charge they'd wipe them out without breaking a sweat. If they got charged the terminators would get hit back just as hard as they got hit when the honor guard retaliate. A 5 man terminator squad w/ lightning claws probably won't take them out in one round of combat.

Hollismason wrote:5 Chaos terms w/ nothing eat them alive.

Just the other day I had a 5 man command squad with a captain up against a 6 man chaos terminator squad with a lord. They hung in there for 5 or 6 rounds of combat. The only reason that they didn't wipe out the terminators was because the guy made at least 6 invuln saves in a row. Had it been an honor guard squad the terminators wouldn't have survived one round of combat.

Hollismason wrote:Their just not that good even with the powerweapon and 2+ that pretty much any other HTH squad in contact kills them.

They're expensive. With 3-4 power weapon attacks each (depending on if you take a relic blade or not) they should be expensive. There's no doubt that that's awesome. The question is is it worth the points?

Space Marine Honor Guard?

Redwunz — GMT

I podded a 5 man squad with the commander. After grabbing some cover I took two rounds of shooting from an entire IG army and only lost one guy! Granted, it wasn't tweaked for AP, but I was still mucho impressed.

Re:Space Marine Honor Guard?

Grim.Badger — GMT

I've not used honour guard, but I have used similarly equiped command squads and they are horrific; but then I can give command squads a storm shield to soak up some of the low AP weapons

I think the key to using them is to keep them in a land raider and drive them up to whatever needs killing, then offload them and watch them rip it apart.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

whitedragon — GMT

artyboy wrote:
Hollismason wrote:Dark Eldar Wyches Eat them Alive.

Uhh....seriously?

Uh, yes seriously. Wyches reduce the honor guards weaponskill and get a 4+ inv save in close combat. Couple that with the agonizer equipped succubi with combat drugs, and a 200 point unit of wyches will own the honor guard. Especially if they charge. Same with any of the other squads that were listed. We can mathhammer it out if you want too, but the fact of the matter is they are WS4, S4, T4 and I4 just like regular space marines, and anything with alot of power weapons standard, high initiative or high beefy invulnerable saves will stop them in their tracks. (Bloodletters, Terminators, Banshees + Doom, Berzerkers, the list goes on.)

Don't forget that if you are playing against Eldar, Nids, Marines with Hoods, Inquisitors with Hoods or Null Rods or Dark Eldar with that goofy anti-psyker thingy, you're going to be hard pressed to get Force Dome off everytime to protect them.

Really a better combo would be Azrael (And his 4+ Inv) and a Dark Angels Command Squad.

If you can deliver the honor guard to be able to charge, then they will win, but then they will be offed in the countercharge/shooting retailiation. They are not worth the points over what TH/SS termies would do.

Re:Space Marine Honor Guard?

Battle Brother Loken — GMT

Relic Blades FTW the space marine response to the Night Bringer
I love honor Guard and fidn them to be a back breaking unit though expensive point wise they will kill their points over and over if you target MCs and HQs and just Elites but if you ask me relic blades are a must but grenade launchers not so much

Space Marine Honor Guard?

JD21290 — GMT

Everyone has mentioned points heavy special units to take them out, yet you have missed out the obvious

30 boyz, klaw+pole boss with all the usual crap thrown in.
cheap on points, and throws out enough attacks to ruin any unit in a single turn.
not only that, but they have numbers to survive, and with a gak save anyway, power weps mean nothing to them.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

Grim.Badger — GMT

JD21290 wrote:Everyone has mentioned points heavy special units to take them out, yet you have missed out the obvious

30 boyz, klaw+pole boss with all the usual crap thrown in.
cheap on points, and throws out enough attacks to ruin any unit in a single turn.
not only that, but they have numbers to survive, and with a gak save anyway, power weps mean nothing to them.

On the charge a 10 man squad of Honour Guard will be hitting with nearly 60 power weapon hits; how many boys do you think will actually be left to attack back and with a 2+ armour save there isn't going to be many dying.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

whitedragon — GMT

15 orks will die, and then 3-4 marines in the return swing, meaning the orks may or may not explode due to combat res. However, in the next turn, the marines will be subject to whatever hell the ork player decides to throw at them next. A 400+ point unit bags a 200 point ork squad and then dies.

Not a very good investment.

Re:Space Marine Honor Guard?

Mahu — GMT

I don't understand these arguments that essentially devolve into "name the unit that can beat this unit". Every unit has it's counter, but a good general can minimize a unit's weaknesses by careful movement and planning.

Honor Guard are a hammer unit. They cost a ton of points and require certain units to be taken to properly support them. Space Marines do benefit a little when it comes to hammer units because they have the survivability to adapt to battlefield situations and react.

Case in point, I played a Aard Boyz test game this weekend against a dual Nob Biker list (the new modified Kill Point scenario). I held everything in reserve, and the bikerz player really aggressive in the hopes of charging me as I came out piece meal, but the opposite occurred. Vulkan, a Commander with Thunderhammer/SS, and a decently kitted out command squad (I keep command squads around 200 points max) was able to counter charge out of a Land Raider Redeemer and between the shooting that I had, and the close combat that followed, I wiped one Nob Biker Unit and Warboss off the table. The second charged and wiped the command squad and Vulkan, but the 5 TH/SS Terminators I had counter charged again and forced the Warboss to flee.

Ended up getting a Tie, but you have to place that in contex that my list was literally something I put together in a few minutes and I had never used a Command Squad before.

What does this have to do with Honor Guard? Well, as you can see, I kept everything well supported and used other units in my army, even sacrificially, to create a favorable situation for the units that can hit hard. It's the tactics behind the so called "hammer units", that need to be applied to Honor Guard.

Honor Guard are like Mega Armored Nobz. They are pricy and don't seem worth it in a vacuum. But when you put them in a survivable transport (Battlewagon/Land Raider), add in a character that increases their survivability (Librarian, Mad Dok Grotsnik), and learn when and where to apply them, they can be a very useful hard hitting unit.

They are probably not going to make it into anybody's "Best of" list, but I do believe you can win a good amount of games fielding them.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

winterman — GMT

Best reason to use honor guard is if you want a good assault unit but need to fill your elite slots with other stuff. Example I have seen -- pedro with all 3 elites filled. They get the +1 attack without the extra cost of a banner and your army has some counter charge.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also forgot to add, honorgaurd can mech up way cheaper then terminators. Yes you can't assault out of a moving rhino but they can still roll with your army and sit tight, waiting for a chance to disembark and counter charge.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

Grim.Badger — GMT

winterman wrote:Best reason to use honor guard is if you want a good assault unit but need to fill your elite slots with other stuff.

But Vanguard are Fast Attack

Space Marine Honor Guard?

winterman — GMT

While van are better against non-MEq for the points, I like that for 15 points more for HG you get a 2+ save, a bolter and a power weapon. Makes the honorguard more all-rounders. FA is better used for speeders also. YMMV.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

whitedragon — GMT

A space marine command squad gives you more utility for cheaper cost than an honor guard, and the Company Commander gives you more FoC options if you give him a bike, where as the Chapter Master only gives you the Orbital Bombardment.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

artyboy — GMT

I'd be running Vulcan. When I won't be running Vulcan I'll run a captain and a command squad. I agree that vanilla chapter masters aren't worthwhile.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

winterman — GMT

Well without a chapter master, you couldn't take honor guard anyways (Vulkan does not open up Honor guard or command squad). And I agree with whitedragon, command squad is better, as is captain typically. Pedro would be the exception if you happen to be running him. It really is a rare army build where honor guard are even worth considering imo from a pure effectiveness point of view. Sure nice looking and full of modelling potential though.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

artyboy — GMT

Vulcan is a chapter master. How do you not get to choose honor guard when you take him?

Space Marine Honor Guard?

Mahu — GMT

Vulcan is a Forgefather, a special rank within the Salamanders Chapter. The current Salamander Chapter Master is Tu'shan.

Rules wise, there is no special character that unlocks Honor Guard, not even Pedro.

I would agree that I would field a walking Command Squad before Honor Guard.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

Tacobake — GMT

Honour Guard are great. Why are they great.

1) Power Weapon + Bolt Pistol may as well be Lightning Claws. Unlike LC they also have Grenades.
2) The Champ buy is a bargain, give him a Thunderhammer.
3) May as well take some Relic Blades. Dude that gak is cool.
4) What else do they do. Chapter Banner. Awesome.

Character is optional. Chappy or a Librarian is probably a better choice with your Chapter Master doing something else. Chappy gives them a 4++ albeit pricey. But their biggest edge besides the Chapter Banner and the this and the that is the Frag Grenades.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

Battle Brother Loken — GMT

Mahu wrote:Vulcan is a Forgefather, a special rank within the Salamanders Chapter. The current Salamander Chapter Master is Tu'shan.

Rules wise, there is no special character that unlocks Honor Guard, not even Pedro.

I would agree that I would field a walking Command Squad before Honor Guard.

Sadly this is not true Pedro DOES let you use Honor guard as it says specifically that he is a chapter master and lets you have access the Honor Guard

Space Marine Honor Guard?

SuperioR — GMT

Mahu wrote:Vulcan is a Forgefather, a special rank within the Salamanders Chapter. The current Salamander Chapter Master is Tu'shan.

Rules wise, there is no special character that unlocks Honor Guard, not even Pedro.

I would agree that I would field a walking Command Squad before Honor Guard.

Marneus Calgar also unlocks 3 Honor Guard squads.

Re:Space Marine Honor Guard?

Fist of Dorn — GMT

They are a fantastic unit, I have had great success with them, accually amazing success, they do have weaknesses but not many, the lack of invulnerable save is over come bye equiping some of them with a storm shield and use the wound allocation to your advantage, I iether use them with pedro, or with a banner, and I equip them with 2 storm sheilds, and 2 relic blades, 1 on the champion and let them go kill some stuff. In one game they took out 2 20 man squads of ork boys and nob biker unit with the boss in it, only losing 3 modles, after that there was nothing to kill or they would have done more. I ran them in tandom with a unit of thunder hammer terminators, it is a brutal combo. All in all running them with pedro seems to be best as he can boost the terminators as well or any near bye unit, I dont put pedro in combat but position him to where he can benefit more units.

I dont put them in friendly games, as they are so hard to deal with eccpecially in a land raider.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

Ludovic — GMT

I agree with the 3 posters who said that you wouldnt want to field them in a < 2000 pt game, wouldn't want to field them unless you have your elite slots maxed out, and that most dedicated CC units will win via the mathhammer vs Honour guard.

That said, they are better than Vanguard if you have your Elites taken up and need a counterattack unit. For instance, my ard boyz list (which I didnt play with, sadly,) consisted of among other things Pedro, 2 Sternguard squads, an assault termie squad in a LR and an honour guard squad in a LR. Two LRs with counterattack units can take up the entire table center with counterattack threat.

Re:Space Marine Honor Guard?

jmurph — GMT

Mahu wrote:I don't understand these arguments that essentially devolve into "name the unit that can beat this unit". Every unit has it's counter, but a good general can minimize a unit's weaknesses by careful movement and planning.

Because its easier than explaining any actual tactics. An internetz=epeen contests.

Seriously, the fact that some heavy hitters can trump the squad is a pretty poor argument- unless said units are very common. Dark Eldar? Please, I haven't seen anyone around here playing them in a long time. The ork mob is more relevant, since they are common, but still not a serious concern in a vacuum. The honor guard would explode the orks with CR or butcher them in the following round on I.

Counter attacks are a concern with such pricey assault units. The lack of a good invulnerable save means a sacrificial unit can be thrown out to block them and set up for something nasty in the following turn (plasma, demolisher, Lash, etc.)

In terms of force projection, it will be tough to make up their points and leaves you with less army elsewhere. For large or Apoc games that may be okay (since people are just trying to fill space alot of time anyway), but I don't see it as being viable in regular games. And since command squads can do a similar trick for fewer points and don't require a chapter master....

Re:Space Marine Honor Guard?

whitedragon — GMT

jmurph wrote:
Counter attacks are a concern with such pricey assault units. The lack of a good invulnerable save means a sacrificial unit can be thrown out to block them and set up for something nasty in the following turn (plasma, demolisher, Lash, etc.)

In terms of force projection, it will be tough to make up their points and leaves you with less army elsewhere. For large or Apoc games that may be okay (since people are just trying to fill space alot of time anyway), but I don't see it as being viable in regular games. And since command squads can do a similar trick for fewer points and don't require a chapter master....

Uhm...that's exactly what we are all trying to say. For the same points as honor guard, you can have things that can whether the counterassault better. (TH/SS Terminators or Command Squad) Their lack of an INV save and their marine statline means that they lose out any time they can't get the charge.

And other races' heavy hitters are a concern since they will be trying to get a favorable matchup for themselves vs your honor guard. There are alot of heavy hitters in just about every army that will run up against honor guard. And this doesn't even include all the AP2 weapons that will be going your way.

Chaos
Khorne Berzerkers
Possessed
Chaos Terminators

Demons
Everything

Dark Eldar
Incubi
Wyches

Eldar
Seer Council
Banshees
Shining Spears

Demonhunters
Grey Knight Terminators

Space Marines of Any Flavor
Anything swinging alot of power weapons and furious charge

Tyranids
Anything with Rending Claws

The list goes on and on. The fact is, there are better choices than the honor guard, especially if you are going up against alot of AP2 or Power Weapons. They do just as well as terminators can against small arms and non power weapons (but the command squad is comparable, can have bikes and FNP for cheaper), and they can sweeping advance. However, once the going gets rough, you will wish you had terminators.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

jmurph — GMT

I always wish I had more assault terminators. And that they were scoring ;-)

Space Marine Honor Guard?

GeneralRetreat — GMT

Personally, I'm a believer int he unit, but I haven't nailed down a "prime" configuration yet.

Here's another question for the Dakka-At-Large. Since you do have to have a Chapter Master to run these, what do you think is the best Chapter Master to run with them?

Marneus in AoA (prevents Sweeping Advance, but it's the model that comes in the box with them, and he is a beast)

Marneus in PA - I can't get this model, but I could make a counts-as with dual PF. This seems like the best to me so far

Generic Master - Which weapons? TH/RB w DW? Twin LC? SS/PF? Toss out your thoughts on this, I think for the points, you could make a more efficient dedicated CC monster, but he won't have the awesome Calgar powers that makes your entire army laugh at LD checks.

I guess there's always the option of MC in AoA, and run him separately, since technically the unit doesn't have to accompany the Master....

Other SC Masters?

What's the general thoughts on this?

Space Marine Honor Guard?

WarhammerTabletop — GMT

For me there too much of a point sink for a unit that can die easily. Also Calgar is too much of a point sink too. Vulkhan to me looks like the best 200 points for the ability to reroll failed misses for flamers and meltas and you get a solid Hq with it is worth the points.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

GeneralRetreat — GMT

An Attached Librarian with Force Dome and Null Zone is generally accepted to be the best resilience enhancement that this unit can get.

Care to justify your statement about Calgar not being worth it, or is that just a gut feeling?

I've used him to great success and would continue to do so if he was 300 points. He is both a absolute CC beast, and the only army-wide buff your Marines will ever need. Now he's got Orbital Bombardment, and can choose between PFx2 and Powersword in I5, re-rolling ALL fails to hit and wound.

I can understand not everyone loving him, but can you at least explain a bit more about why? Vulkan is nice, but what is all that Twin-Linking going to do for the Honor Guard? Nothing, really. If you're running Vulkan Marines, you'd want TH/SS terminators anyway since the TH are twin-linked.

As an alternative to Calgar for a good Master to run HG with, I'd say Vulkan is between sub-par and inefficient as a choice.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

oddjustice — GMT

GeneralRetreat wrote:An Attached Librarian with Force Dome and Null Zone is generally accepted to be the best resilience enhancement that this unit can get.

Care to justify your statement about Calgar not being worth it, or is that just a gut feeling?

I've used him to great success and would continue to do so if he was 300 points. He is both a absolute CC beast, and the only army-wide buff your Marines will ever need. Now he's got Orbital Bombardment, and can choose between PFx2 and Powersword in I5, re-rolling ALL fails to hit and wound.

I can understand not everyone loving him, but can you at least explain a bit more about why? Vulkan is nice, but what is all that Twin-Linking going to do for the Honor Guard? Nothing, really. If you're running Vulkan Marines, you'd want TH/SS terminators anyway since the TH are twin-linked.

As an alternative to Calgar for a good Master to run HG with, I'd say Vulkan is between sub-par and inefficient as a choice.

Remind me again why Calgar rerolls all failed hits?

Space Marine Honor Guard?

whitedragon — GMT

oddjustice wrote:
GeneralRetreat wrote:As an alternative to Calgar for a good Master to run HG with, I'd say Vulkan is between sub-par and inefficient as a choice.

Remind me again why Calgar rerolls all failed hits?

Calgar has a Master Crafted weapon, and Titanic Might. So he can re-roll one hit and all wounds, so not quite "all failed hits".

As for Vulkan, nobody said vulkan would be better to lead honor guard, they said Vulkan would be better than Calgar for most Marine armies because of his Melta/Flamer/TH buff.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

oddjustice — GMT

whitedragon wrote:
oddjustice wrote:
GeneralRetreat wrote:As an alternative to Calgar for a good Master to run HG with, I'd say Vulkan is between sub-par and inefficient as a choice.

Remind me again why Calgar rerolls all failed hits?

Calgar has a Master Crafted weapon, and Titanic Might. So he can re-roll one hit and all wounds, so not quite "all failed hits".

As for Vulkan, nobody said vulkan would be better to lead honor guard, they said Vulkan would be better than Calgar for most Marine armies because of his Melta/Flamer/TH buff.

Ah, good to know. I wasn't paying attention to his mastercrafted weapons. Makes him even more intriguing as an HQ choice.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

GeneralRetreat — GMT

But the thread is about Honor Guard in the first place, making any discussion about Vulkan being better for "most" Marine armies a serious derailment.

I was skirting derailment with the question about a Chapter Master to use with them, but since it was still relevant, I told myself it was "expanding the topic".

Let me check my Codex on Calgar - you are correct sir, he re-rolls all wounding attempts in shooting and CC, not To Hit. My apologies on that. Still, I stand by my statement that he is still, in fact, a monster, and worth every point.

I like to joke with my friends by telling them that I'm going to show them the balance of the new Space Marine Codex by putting out two equal value models - and put down Calgar in AoA next to a Land Raider Redeemer with Extra Armor and Multi-Melta. 265 heavyweights, INDAHOUSE!

Space Marine Honor Guard?

paidinfull — GMT

Calgar can not re-roll to hit. He is NOT equipped with a master crafted weapon. He has matched powerfists that have an AP2 storm bolter built in.

He has Titanic Might and that's it.

Even so he is still amazing in that he allows all of your units to choose Pass/Fail. Completely worth it for that alone, very much changes the game play experience.
He's also a monster in HTH with 6x PF attacks on the charge, or 5x Pseudo Lightning claw attacks(power sword with re-roll to wound). I currently run him in my Ultramarine list and am very happy with how he plays.

On topic.
I have played a bit with Honor guard simply because I love the models. Unfortunately from a tournament/competitive standpoint they really aren't worth it.
The things that really hurt them are:
No INV (as so many people pointed out)
Relative Intiative (going simo with most units)
High Cost (you want to take relic blades but at 50pts a model its insane)

The configuration I have been playing with is:
10x HG w/ Banner - 375
CM w/ Arti, SS, Relic - 185
Kahn - 160

This comes out to 62x S5+ I5+ attacks on the charge. The unit also has Hit & Run, Outflank, and rides in a Redeemer w/ EA & MM.

This all comes for the new low, low price of 995pts.

The objective is to engage as many units as possible and potentially wipe them out in 1 round of combat.

Sure the PW won't do great against a Seer Council but they will go at the same time and inflict more wounds w/ about the same survivability, 2+ vs 4+(4+)

If you are considering competitive play, there really is no point in taking HG, the unit above is the only thing I have tried that is competitive. It really does eat what ever they charge... Even T8 wraithlords and C'Tan.

Space Marine Honor Guard?

oddjustice — GMT

GeneralRetreat wrote:But the thread is about Honor Guard in the first place, making any discussion about Vulkan being better for "most" Marine armies a serious derailment.

I was skirting derailment with the question about a Chapter Master to use with them, but since it was still relevant, I told myself it was "expanding the topic".

Let me check my Codex on Calgar - you are correct sir, he re-rolls all wounding attempts in shooting and CC, not To Hit. My apologies on that. Still, I stand by my statement that he is still, in fact, a monster, and worth every point.

I like to joke with my friends by telling them that I'm going to show them the balance of the new Space Marine Codex by putting out two equal value models - and put down Calgar in AoA next to a Land Raider Redeemer with Extra Armor and Multi-Melta. 265 heavyweights, INDAHOUSE!

he's been nothing but good to me. especially with his 2+ saving throw retinue. I tend to throw the tough saves on him; eternal warrior goes a LONG way toward improving the survivability of his surrounding unit.

I can recall a game where he and his honor guard tarpitted a 30 man boyz squad, a warboss, and a unit of meganobz as they piled in turn after turn. Killed the meganobz by HIMSELF in one shot, say hello to my dual powerfist friend.