<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Necrons and the Monolith?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/15.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Necrons and the Monolith?
I recently played in a tourney and one of my opponents was Necrons. Now, I got into CC with his Warriors (who were standing right next to his Monolith). I ended up knocking down the entire unit, but for some reason they weren't removed. Next turn, he teleported that same unit to his Monolith and they got re-rolls on their WBB rolls.

I'm no expert at Necron rules, so could someone help me on this?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/880078.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/880078.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
The monolith can give them the chance to re-roll the WBB roll (using power matrix teleport) but only if they could get back up in the first place.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/880165.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/880165.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/880174.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/880174.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Of any of the scenarios listed above, none were the case during our battle. The closest thing to these Warriors was the Monolith. It is also worth mentioning that I had Ghazghkull in that CC, who is using a S10 power fist, yet his Warriors only got knocked over. His Necron Lord did have the Rez Orb, but IIRC he was too far away to give the bonus.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/880322.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/880322.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Did he have a tomb spider?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/880516.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/880516.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith? WBB for ALL downed models in the unit (not just the within 6")
2. Is the a tomb spyder within 12" and another unit of warriors on the board of any model of the downed unit then roll WBB.
3. Must satisfy one of these 2 conditions first, before a WBB attempt can be made.
4. Monolith WBB can only be tried as a secondary WBB after the first one is made.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881122.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881122.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Sounds like he swindled you! D:

Camarodragon is right.

Keep in mind that a necron will never get a WBB from death or glory (even with an orb).

Also, if you're in combat with a bunch of warriors, and you kill 7/10 of them, before they get sweeped. The 7 ones you killed get a WBB if they satisfy the conditions Camarodragon said. If you killed them with power weapons, then they need to be within orb range as well. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881133.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881133.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Aduro wrote:If the whole unit was knocked down, then that unit is gone. However any of the indiviual warriors that are within six inches of another warrior are allowed to join that unit if they pass their WWB roll. If that unit then uses the Monolith then are allowed to reroll any failed WWB rolls.


Almost. A unit has to have a least one member standing to benefit from Monolith re-rolls. If the WHOLE unit is knocked down, then any who are within 6" of another like unit and MAKE their WBB join that unit. If the second unit gets teleported through the 'Lith, the models from the first do NOT get re-rolls, as the ones who failed are NOT part of the second unit.




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Camarodragon wrote:1. Is there another unit of warriors within 6" of the downed unit. Roll WBB for ALL downed models in the unit (not just the within 6")


Again, close.

Codex: Necrons 2nd printing, pg. 13 wrote:
......Additionally, the self-repair ability only works if the wounded Necron is within 6" of another model of the same type, although not necessarily of the same unit.

Emphasis mine.

As you can see, WBB is determined on a model-by-model basis, not unit-by-unit. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881377.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881377.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith?
Looks like ive been playing it wrong all this time. Although I cant remember a time where its actully came up.

So check your range from model to model. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881454.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881454.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith?
Camarodragon wrote:1. Is there another unit of warriors within 6" of the downed unit.

No, again the closest thing to these Warriors was the Monolith. There was another unit of Warriors nearby, but we did that CC first and my Kommandos caught them in Sweeping Advance, and he removed the Warriors like he was supposed to.

Camarodragon wrote:2. Is the a tomb spyder within 12" and another unit of warriors on the board of any model of the downed unit

He had no Spyders at all. He was shouting about how much they suck. Those things would be the whole reason I'd start Necrons

Camarodragon wrote:4. Monolith WBB can only be tried as a secondary WBB after the first one is made.

The way this guy did it was he teleported the Warriors out of combat, they appear in front of the Monolith, and he makes WBB rolls with re-rolls. Now, they count as exiting a transport when they do this, so wouldn't doing the above be the equivalent of entering AND exiting a transport on the same turn? The BRB says you cannot do this.

Now I had the feeling something wasn't right when he was pulling all these Necron tricks. I have fought Necrons before and I am aware that they like playing a different game. When I questioned him on these rules he just asked his nearby buddy who claimed to have been playing Necrons for 12 years. Have Necrons even been around that long?

I said years of experience doesn't mean gak if you don't understand your own rules ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881480.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881480.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith?
Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:
Camarodragon wrote:4. Monolith WBB can only be tried as a secondary WBB after the first one is made.

The way this guy did it was he teleported the Warriors out of combat, they appear in front of the Monolith, and he makes WBB rolls with re-rolls. Now, they count as exiting a transport when they do this, so wouldn't doing the above be the equivalent of entering AND exiting a transport on the same turn? The BRB says you cannot do this.


No they arent entering and exiting...they never actually enter the monolith...they phase out of their current position and emerge from the portal in front of the monolith...the monolith actually has no transport capability and cannot carry units inside of it...and yes they can be teleported out of CC as per the power matrix rule on P 22 of their codex.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881537.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881537.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith?
Shake Zoola wrote:
Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:
Camarodragon wrote:4. Monolith WBB can only be tried as a secondary WBB after the first one is made.

The way this guy did it was he teleported the Warriors out of combat, they appear in front of the Monolith, and he makes WBB rolls with re-rolls. Now, they count as exiting a transport when they do this, so wouldn't doing the above be the equivalent of entering AND exiting a transport on the same turn? The BRB says you cannot do this.


No they arent entering and exiting...they never actually enter the monolith...they phase out of their current position and emerge from the portal in front of the monolith...the monolith actually has no transport capability and cannot carry units inside of it...and yes they can be teleported out of CC as per the power matrix rule on P 22 of their codex.


I see. Thanks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881542.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881542.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith?
Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:No, again the closest thing to these Warriors was the Monolith.

No one's saying that it has to be the closest unit, just that it's within 6".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/881675.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Also, if you're in combat with a bunch of warriors, and you kill 7/10 of them, before they get sweeped. The 7 ones you killed get a WBB if they satisfy the conditions Camarodragon said. If you killed them with power weapons, then they need to be within orb range as well.


I don't believe this is correct. If the unit gets swept, even the necrons laying down are removed. No WBB. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/882586.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/882586.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith?
Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:[...ho claimed to have been playing Necrons for 12 years. Have Necrons even been around that long?
Nope, IIRC the very first 'Necron Raider' came on the front of a white dwarf 10 or 11 years ago, and were not even really an 'army'. They didn't get an army list until more than a year later (with only about half a dozen units in it), and not even a proper codex until a few years after that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/882690.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/882690.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? FNP. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883053.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883053.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Aduro wrote:This thread and all it's different interpritations of WWB reminds me why I can't wait for it to be replaced by FNP.


Course, it seems like 50% of the players don't understand FNP either, given the regularity with which it comes up on here..........................]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883081.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883081.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Lordhat wrote:
Aduro wrote:If the whole unit was knocked down, then that unit is gone. However any of the indiviual warriors that are within six inches of another warrior are allowed to join that unit if they pass their WWB roll. If that unit then uses the Monolith then are allowed to reroll any failed WWB rolls.


Almost. A unit has to have a least one member standing to benefit from Monolith re-rolls. If the WHOLE unit is knocked down, then any who are within 6" of another like unit and MAKE their WBB join that unit. If the second unit gets teleported through the 'Lith, the models from the first do NOT get re-rolls, as the ones who failed are NOT part of the second unit.


I think this is a little more gray than you give it credit for. If the necrons are destroyed, and their models join a nearby unit, the WBB rolls that are made for the entire squad could all apply to a single unit. While it is not spelled out anywhere, I am not sure that the downed necrons can be considered a separate unit. I've looked and I don't think it says anywhere that they are still the same unit. I'm also not sure when the line is crossed and an old necron unit becomes part of a new one. And as necrons no longer need to be within 6" of another of the same type when they re-roll via the monolith as long as they were originally eligible to roll WBB, I think it is still murky waters.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883089.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883089.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? WBB, primarily because they don't join it until AFTER they make a WBB. So what unit are they part of, if not their original unit? They aren't. Basically, there isn't any gray that is not constructed by those trying to confuse the issue. The downed Necrons are not part of any unit, assuming the whole unit got downed.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883100.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883100.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? KP every time they kill a necron lord, if he gets downed after getting back up multiple times (as he is wont to do).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883117.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883117.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883233.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883233.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? WBB, kill point awarded, if not, thank you for playing, please try again.

Without number actually REPLACES the unit with one of the exact same profile. One unit is killed, one unit is created granting one kill point.

In the case of an entire unit of necrons being downed, but still being able to WBB (unit within 6" whatever...) that unit is destroyed, provide a kill point. The necrons that make the WBB roll join the closes unit and that unit that is closest only becomes bigger.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883289.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883289.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883350.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883350.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? RAW concrete answer that I can provide. Perhaps someone else can.

The necron rules refer to wound loss.

Pg. 13 "Any Necron model that is reduced to 0 Wounds, or would otherwise be removed as a casualty, remains on the table top and laid on its side...."

If wound loss equaled being killed, the a lone SM Captain could be "killed" 3 times for 3 wounds lost, awarding 3 kill points.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883392.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883392.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith? WBB if they were shot at by something with AP3-1 but with a strength of lower than 8 (i.e hot-shot lasgun)? Getting very confused...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883432.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883432.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith?
It wrote:May I just ask (to save the hassle of opening a new thread), do necrons get WBB if they were shot at by something with AP3-1 but with a strength of lower than 8 (i.e hot-shot lasgun)? Getting very confused...


Yes. Only close combat weapons that do not allow saves deny WBB.


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Omega_Warlord wrote:Kill points are only awarded after a unit has been killed, i.e. removed as a casualty. The Necron lord that is down can get back up as the exact same unit he already was (while down is does not count as a unit, but he also does not count as a killed unit.) If he fails WBB, kill point awarded, if not, thank you for playing, please try again.

Without number actually REPLACES the unit with one of the exact same profile. One unit is killed, one unit is created granting one kill point.

In the case of an entire unit of necrons being downed, but still being able to WBB (unit within 6" whatever...) that unit is destroyed, provide a kill point. The necrons that make the WBB roll join the closes unit and that unit that is closest only becomes bigger.


Kitzz wrote:You do realize that's a contradiction, right?


I don't see it as a contradiction. You don't Tally KP's until the end of the game.

Lord A is reduced to 0 wounds. Lord A makes his WBB roll on the Necron player's next turn, and stands up. Unit 'Lord A' is still on the board at the end of the game, no KP.


'Warrior unit A' is reduced to 0 models, 5 models stand up and join 'Warrior unit B'. 'Warrior unit A' is NOT on the board at the end of the game, one KP.

In the instance of without number, each iteration of a unit is seperate:'unit a', 'unit a-1', 'unit a-2', etc. In this way 'Unit a-4' can be on the board at the end of the game but 'units a-1 through a3' still give up kp's.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883464.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883464.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883676.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883676.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Kitzz wrote:What makes the lord different? Why does he still count as the same unit?

Because you lay him on his side then he ether gets up or he doesn't. If the lord gets up he's not dead. If he is dead he doesn't get back up.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883757.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883757.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
So, unit A takes a bunch of wounds and warriors end up closer to unit B. Some of them pass their WWB and as per the rules they join the closest unit, unit B. Now, unit A uses a Monolith portal. What happens to the warriors who were closer to unit B now? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883968.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883968.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? WBB to'. This isn't a problem as they don't NEED the Portal to re-roll (they passed their WBB. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883978.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883978.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883990.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/883990.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
I would say that since the models do not actually become part of unit B until they pass WBB so if unit A still had someone alive, they would be able to pass trough as they are still technically part of unit A as they have not been removed as casualties.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/884037.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/884037.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Omega_Warlord wrote:You sir, make my head hurt.....

I would say that since the models do not actually become part of unit B until they pass WBB so if unit A still had someone alive, they would be able to pass trough as they are still technically part of unit A as they have not been removed as casualties.


This.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/884122.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/884122.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Lordhat wrote:They stay with unit B, and do not get teleported. The warriors automatically become part of the unit they 'WBB to'. This isn't a problem as they don't NEED the Portal to re-roll (they passed their WBB.


No, they (unit A downed models) stay with their original unit and would be teleported with unit A. Regardless of which unit is closer, they do not become part of the closer unit until AFTER making their WBB roll. Only at that point they leave the original unit. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/885296.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/885296.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
don_mondo wrote:
Lordhat wrote:They stay with unit B, and do not get teleported. The warriors automatically become part of the unit they 'WBB to'. This isn't a problem as they don't NEED the Portal to re-roll (they passed their WBB.


No, they (unit A downed models) stay with their original unit and would be teleported with unit A. Regardless of which unit is closer, they do not become part of the closer unit until AFTER making their WBB roll. Only at that point they leave the original unit.


Aduro wrote:

So, unit A takes a bunch of wounds and warriors end up closer to unit B. Some of them pass their WWB and as per the rules they join the closest unit, unit B. Now, unit A uses a Monolith portal. What happens to the warriors who were closer to unit B now?


This was the question I was answering. I thought he was questioning what happened to the models that PASSED their WBB. As you can see above, I agree with you.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/886067.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/886067.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/887705.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/887705.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
1) Close combat weapons that confer no armor save
i.e. Power weapons, monstrous, warscythe, etc...

2) Double strength to toughness weapons
i.e. Strength 8 for warriors and 10 for mostly
anything else
3) Failed Death or Glory - specifically states takes a WOUND for which there is no save of any kind


Now, things people wish killed them but don't

1) AP1,2--- not yet anyways, for now they'll be back
2) Sweeping-- yeah see... you have to deal WOUNDS for which there are no armor saves-- here they just die-- which means if there's a lucky guy of the same type just downed w/ in 6 or there's a spyder in range they stand up and go join the other unit.


Now here's a fun question guys... say you shoot up necrons (stupid I know) before you move in to assault them. They put their models in the front on their sides---see the problem here is that even though they're dead they're still on the table and enemy models--- so that means in movement/assault phase they can't hit them....but also can't move over/through them directly. I mean pg. 34

"models in an assaulting unit make their assault move following the same rules as in the movement phase, with the exception that they may be moved within 1" of enemy models. This means assaulting models may still not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting"

Granted, the 1st closest model can still travel around the body wall, treating it as impassible terrain as is written on pg. 34 lines 18-25 or so.

Anyways, the question is--- what the hell? Does this really seem fair if the only passage at all is narrow and then gets body farmed so no movement can go through?

Granted is only for 1 turn at most... but..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/891779.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/891779.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
The Dragon wrote:2) Sweeping-- yeah see... you have to deal WOUNDS for which there are no armor saves-- here they just die-- which means if there's a lucky guy of the same type just downed w/ in 6 or there's a spyder in range they stand up and go join the other unit.


Or not. Check the FAQ.

EDIT: Or check the codex, I think it's pretty clear there as well.

EDIT 2: Don't check the FAQ, it won't help. I was mistaken.

The Dragon wrote:Now here's a fun question guys... say you shoot up necrons (stupid I know) before you move in to assault them. They put their models in the front on their sides---see the problem here is that even though they're dead they're still on the table and enemy models--- so that means in movement/assault phase they can't hit them....but also can't move over/through them directly. I mean pg. 34

"models in an assaulting unit make their assault move following the same rules as in the movement phase, with the exception that they may be moved within 1" of enemy models. This means assaulting models may still not move through friendly or enemy models, may not pass through gaps narrower than their base, and may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting"

Granted, the 1st closest model can still travel around the body wall, treating it as impassible terrain as is written on pg. 34 lines 18-25 or so.

Anyways, the question is--- what the hell? Does this really seem fair if the only passage at all is narrow and then gets body farmed so no movement can go through?

Granted is only for 1 turn at most... but..


Yes, this would be a good tactic, if it wasn't for the fact that they are "ignored for normal game purposes." On the other hand, "normal game purposes" are kind of...not defined by the rules. Assault seems about as normal as things get, but I've seen necron players argue the other way.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/891842.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/891842.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Has anyone managed to see this come up at a GW tourney or something? My friend pointed it out to me, but it seemed so dirty I've never used it.


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hmmm... the silence is deafening, A dirty scoop of ice cream it is.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/891901.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/891901.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:I've got a problem understanding these rules on the Monolith.

I recently played in a tourney and one of my opponents was Necrons. Now, I got into CC with his Warriors (who were standing right next to his Monolith). I ended up knocking down the entire unit, but for some reason they weren't removed. Next turn, he teleported that same unit to his Monolith and they got re-rolls on their WBB rolls.

I'm no expert at Necron rules, so could someone help me on this?


Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Your opponent was considering damaged Necrons to be necrons. However first paragraph of the Codex on WBB says they do not count as anything other than debris until they self-repair or fail. He thought they were in range of each other and thus could stand back up and this is not the case.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/892781.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/892781.page GMT Necrons and the Monolith?
lol, have you seen someone claim this before? I guess I can 'sort of' see how someone who rule-skimmed might think it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/893257.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/893257.page GMT Re:Necrons and the Monolith? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/893475.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/250746/893475.page GMT