<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "3k Dwarfs for 'Ard Boyz"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 3k Dwarfs for 'Ard Boyz WAAC lists will be the rule of the day. Please feel free to offer any input/ideas regarding which type of list you feel is more appropriate for 'Ard Boyz as well as any suggested changes to help them along.


Marching:

Thorek Ironbrow 505

Dwarf Lord 298
shieldbearers, shield, MRoSteel, RoResistance, MRoSpite, RoFire

Thane 275
BSB, MRoStromni, RoGuarding, Strollaz Rune

Thane 162
shield, MRoDismay, MRoSwiftness, RoCleaving, RoStone, oathstone

Runesmith 132
shield, MroBalance, RoStriking

20 Longbeards 335 Runesmith goes here
shields, Great Weapons(GW from here out) , Full Command (FC from here out), RoCourage

20 Warriors 205
shields, FC

10 Warriors 100 BSB goes here
GW

10 Warriors 110
GW, veteran

10 Miners 110

15 Slayers 165

14 Hammerers 262 Lord goes here
shields, FC, MRoGrungi

20 Ironbreakers 340 Thane w/oathstone goes here
FC, RoStoicism, RoBattle

This list would deploy in two tight packed lines initially using a board edge and the slayers to protect the flanks, Hammerers towards the front center. Against gunline armies, the whole army would stay huddled about the Hammerers' 5+ ward vs shooting banner as the shuffle across the board. Thorek speeds things up while being deployed out of sight behind a hill/wood, initially moving d3 units an additional distance (potential turn 2 charge depending on opponent's movement) and then later doing his best to harass/slow opposing units which are not yet in combat from being able to do so. The Miners get AoD'd into combat on the turn they arrive, ideally crashing through a warmachine or archer unit, if not some sort of a caster. Failing that, they can provide a flank charge into an engaged unit. The MRoDismay is included as a wild card to try and stall any charges/counter charges from my opponent, hopefully letting me charge them the following turn either by standard movement or using the AoD.

I tried to include a fair bit of resistance to fear/terror with the various banners/units, but the list is in no way immune. The list generates 9 Dispel Dice, 1 being stolen from the opponent and features plenty of good old Dwarven toughness to help against magic heavy opponents, but I accept that there are opponents out there who will still batter their way past my defenses.

Unfortunately, the major strategy involves abandoning Thorek from the get go, which could be potentially disastrous, but hopefully by the time my opponent is able to reach him (almost certainly hiding in the corner of my deployment zone) my battle line should be thoroughly engaged, enjoying CR boosts from the MRoStromni and hopefully supporting flank charges from the trailing units the following turn.



Shooting:

Thorek Ironbrow 505

Master Engineer 104
GW, MRoDismay, RoStone

Thane 270
BSB, MRoStromni, RoGuarding, RoSlowness

Thane 142
shield,dwarf handgun, MRoSwiftness, RoCleaving, RoStone, RoIron

10 Quarrellers 110

10 Quarrellers 110

10 Thunderers 150
shields

10 Thunderers 150
shields

20 Warriors 205 BSB goes here
shields, FC

20 Ironbreakers 340 Thane goes here
FC, RoSlowness

15 Slayers

Bolt Throwers 120
each with an engineer

Grudge Thrower 105
RoAccuracy

Grudge Thrower 130
RoAccuracy, RoPenetrating

Organ Gun 120

Organ Gun 120

Flame Cannon 140

This is, IMO, an extreme opposite of the marching army above. The whole list would deploy around a hill in the classic castle setup, preferably using a board edge to protect one flank and also reduce the potential threat vectors, slayers on the other flank. Nothing moves until contact is inevitable, hoping for an extra turn (or two) of shooting from the runes of slowness and/or the MRoDismay while using the AoD to slow incoming threats until the last possible moment and then using it to enable some flank charges from secondary combat units (Thunderers, possibly Quarrellers).

The ranged heavy artillery (Grudge Throwers, Bolt Throwers) picks on whatever is appropriate for their respective uses while the Organ Guns, Flame Cannon, and ranged infantry focus on the faster (and hopefully less heavily armored) threats approaching the gunline to better soften them for the blocks of infantry.

Personally, I think this example lacks enough combat blocks to stand up to the inevitable impact, and needs more anti-magic capability, but it is just a rough example.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/940862.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/940862.page GMT 3k Dwarfs for 'Ard Boyz http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/940964.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/940964.page GMT 3k Dwarfs for 'Ard Boyz http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/941973.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/941973.page GMT 3k Dwarfs for 'Ard Boyz
thorek
2 ME's
BSB

im a fan of the bolt thrower, you can run the ME's with them for BS 5 and entrench them so they are hard to dig out.

whatever you take, dont deny your guns. i run an infantry heavy list but i always tote 2-3 guns at 2250, so i think 4-5 at 3000 is lite.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/941993.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/941993.page GMT 3k Dwarfs for 'Ard Boyz http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/942012.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/942012.page GMT 3k Dwarfs for 'Ard Boyz
Also, I think you'd probably be better off with a pair of spell breakers rather than balance? You already have 8 dice, and it'll be nice to have the auto-dispell for when someone throws 5 dice at a pit of shades or Cloying Quagmire or some such.

RZ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/942267.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/942267.page GMT Re:3k Dwarfs for 'Ard Boyz
At this point I am thinking that something along the lines of the marching list is what I want to bring. Most people I have shown it to agrees that it can be competitive (depending on the opponent), as well as being much more interesting to play/play-against than the gunline. With that in mind...

Responding to suggestions regarding the 1st list, in order of arrival:

How does the first one handle double dragons? You are going to find a full blitz list somewhere, and a dwarf list has trouble getting them into their Lord even with them being forced to charge to get out of the artillery fire. With them free to pick their charges it seems like you are going to be getting dragons/thirsters in units you can't get the Lord to, and that's GG.

I had hoped that between the added infantry maneuverability (Oath & Honor) and no-fly capability (Wrath & Ruin) of the AoD as well as the general CR bonuses/staying power of the infantry I would be able to hold flyers in check until supporting units could be moved into position, but further thinking about your comment makes me a bit less certain, though others suggest potential solutions later. Also, my overall deployment plan for this army has them tightly bunched initially (about 22" across on the front), but spreading to a 30+" wide frontage at the end of turn 1 (perhaps I should create some sort of diagram... later), which I am hoping to use to catch my opponent off guard and hopefully net a few flanking units before they can skirt around my flank (I greatly prefer to deploy against one board edge to better force a head on engagement).


Whatever you take, don't forget to give Master Rune of Challenge to one of your heroes so you can contain double dragons etc. a bit easier by pulling one to the (preferably unkillable) dwarf lord.

I think this is a good possible solution to the problem mentioned above, possibly working it into a lesser character (possibly the runesmith) that can be attached to the lord's unit against armies where this is a necessity and against non-flyer-blitz attached to their own unit the rest of the time. Alternatively, I could exchange the MRoDismay for the MRoChallenge on the combat thane since he is considerably more potent in combat, and combined with the unit of ironbreakers gives me a handy tarpit unit. Also, in the event that he plants the oathstone and renders that unit immobile, this would provide a means of forcing another unit to engage them. The more I think about, this the more I like it...


What about magic defense? There will be lists that will contain so much magic you're going to need something to stave off all those power dice!!

and

Also, I think you'd probably be better off with a pair of spell breakers rather than balance? You already have 8 dice, and it'll be nice to have the auto-dispell for when someone throws 5 dice at a pit of shades or Cloying Quagmire or some such.

I had hoped that 9 dispel dice would be sufficient at this level, in addition to stealing one of my opponent's power dice, but perhaps you are correct. I could hand out an oathstone to the BSB for MR(1) in another unit, or perhaps do as Red_Zeke has suggested and use 2 dispel runes rather than the MRoBalanace, possibly both.
Like I said in the initial post, I expect there will be some lists with so much casting that I simply cannot hope to stop it all, and trying to do so will leave me increasingly exposed in other aspects. Fortunately, I have dwarven toughness/armor to help stand up to some of the less terrifying magic missiles and bound spells, so I can at least try to judge when to use my dice versus those nasty 'no armor save' spells, or others which might ruin my day.

On the first list, what's the thought process behind the rune of striking on the runesmith? And no Rune of Stone? If you keep his hand weapon mundane, give him Rune of Stone and a shield, he's up to a 1+ save to the front.

Sadly, I had simply forgotten that the RoStone was an exception to the Rule of Pride and had already given armor with only the RoStone to the combat thane, I'll correct this when I post the reworked list later. The RoStriking was given to him both to hand out another magical weapon (trying to avoid etherial tarpits) as well as to give him some better protection/advantage against elite rank & file with WS5 as well as non-combat characters in the event of a challenge. If he ends up sporting the MRoChallenge then he'll lose the magic weapon as well as not get the RoStone, since he is included for his magical defenses rather than combat ability, but otherwise I'll try and improve him a bit.

I'll append a reworked list to this post tomorrow morning, if you see anything still unaddressed, please let me know.

---EDIT--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does this look for a refined iteration of the first list?

Thorek Ironbrow 505

Dwarf Lord 298
shieldbearers, shield, MRoSteel, RoResistance, MRoSpite, RoFire

Thane 295
BSB, MRoStromni, RoGuarding, Strollaz Rune, oathstone

Thane 162
shield, MRoChallenge, MRoSwiftness, RoCleaving, RoStone, oathstone

Runesmith 151
shield, MroBalance, RoSpellbreaking, great weapon

20 Longbeards 335 Runesmith goes here, maybe BSB
shields, Great Weapons(GW from here out) , Full Command (FC from here out), RoCourage

20 Warriors 200
shields, veteran, standard

10 Warriors 100 BSB goes here, maybe runesmith
GW

10 Warriors 110
GW, veteran

10 Miners 110

12 Slayers 132

14 Hammerers 262 Lord goes here
shields, FC, MRoGrungi

20 Ironbreakers 340 Thane goes here
FC, RoStoicism, RoBattle

Dropped 3 slayers and the musician from the 20 warriors with shields, changed MRoDismay to the MRoChallenge on the combat thane, added a great weapon and a RoSpellbreaking to the runesmith, and added an oathstone to the BSB for better magical protection. I am tempted to switch the BSB with the runesmith as far as units goes to better protect the longbeards with MR(1) from his oathstone, but have no serious intention of him ever setting the stone outside of a late game flank charge by a low threat opponent.

This seems a bit more capable against double-dragon style blitz lists as well as having a touch more magical protection. Do these seem like reasonable improvements without sacrificing too much from the combat potential of the list?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/943137.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/254431/943137.page GMT