kuro_khan wrote:So you think everyone should just have shooty armies. Yeah, that would be a fun game.

Turn 1:
Player 1
I don't move any of my guys.
I shoot
Player 2
I don't move any of my guys.
I shoot
Turn 2:
Player 1
etc...

Such excitement... like a NASCAR race.

anticitizen013 wrote:The only thing about that is the ratio of friendly to enemy troops. If you have 1 SM Captain vs a mob of 30 Orks... you're much more than likely to hit the Orks than the SM. Though I suppose the problem with that line of thought is it's 'realistic' and 40k is FAR from that...

Horst wrote:thats a good point anti...
maybe add a modifier to the 4+ dice off depending how many friendly models you have in the close combat?
say, if you outnumber them 2 - 1, its a +1 to the roll in their favor. (so it hits a friendly 66% of the time)
if you outnumber them 3 - 1, its a +2 in their favor. (so it hits a friendly 83% of the time)
this is a good idea, to prevent people from just holding say a unit of space marine terminators with thunder hammers with a block of 40 conscripts with a lord commissar behind them...

jinshiryuu wrote:
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[1] "But Sarge', those are our men..."
During their shooting phase, any unit may choose to fire into a close combat, rather than shooting as normal. All of the normal rules for shooting apply, and range is determined by measuring to the closest enemy model(s). Normally, troops will be hesitant to fire into close combat (compassion for their fellow troops, no clear lines of sight to individual targets, preservation of assets, etc). In order to fire into a close combat, the unit must make a successful Leadership test. Any rules which would modify the unit's Ld, or apply to the unit's Morale checks (eg: a Lord Commisar's Aura of Discipline, or Cato Sicarius' Rites of Battle]) apply as normal for purposes of making this check, even though it is not actually a Morale test (although, yes, a commisar's Summary Execution rule [is]should[/i] apply) should probably also appl. This represents leaders being able to enforce their will on their troops. If the unit passes the Ld test, they may then fire into the close combat. If they fail the test, they cannot choose an alternative target. They are assumed to have lost their nerve, failed to get even a mediocre line of sight, etc).

[2]"...on these coordinates..."
[2a] Firing with standard (non-template/non-blast) weapons:
The unit rolls to hit as normal, but before rolling to wound, the opposing player is allowed to roll the equivalent of a cover save (4+) for being obscured by an intervening unit. Any hits which are negated by this special circumstance "save" are applied to the friendly unit instead of against the enemy unit. Wounds are then rolled for and distributed as normal (in the interest of emotional fairness, the opposing player should be allowed to make the Wound rolls against the friendly unit). Normal saves (or other methods of resisting/ignoring wounds) apply for all the combatants.

[2b] Firing with template and blast marker weapons:
Since the models are only a static representation of a "swirling" melee, it is unfair to allow the player to simply place the template as normal, as it would be too easy to place the template where it only touched enemy models. Instead, the player places the template so it covers as many enemy models as possible (the normal way). Enemy models which are under the template are allowed the same 4+ "cover save" (even though template weapons normally disallow cover saves) as above, with successful saves being applied to the friendly unit instead. In addition, any friendly model which falls under the template takes an automatic hit, in addition to those incurred by the opponent's "cover saves". After determing hits, roll for wounds and normal saves as you typically would.

[2c] Firing with blast marker weapons:
Blast markers are placed as normal, with the exception that any model in the melee, friendly or enemy may be the initial target. Roll for scatter as normal and any model (friend or foe) under the marker takes a hit as normal.

[3] "Friendly fire isn't..."
Soldiers typically will not stand around when their own artillery starts dropping shells on them. At the end of the Shooting phase, any friendly unit involved in a close combat you fired into must make an immediate Morale check, even if they suffered no unsaved wounds. There is a penalty of -1 for every friendly unit or squadron that fired into the combat. In addition, each blast or template weapon used incurs a further -1 penalty. If the unit fails the Morale check, they fall back immediately. All rules for sweeping advances and consolidation moves apply as normal. If the friendly unit is completely wiped out, the enemy unit may make a consolidation move (if they are normally allowed one). Units without a Ld stat do not need to make this check.

[4] "Cadavera vero innumera..."s
If there are multiple units for one or both sides engaged in close combat, simply roll randomly to distribute hits from standard and template weapons. Blast weapons are handled normally.

[5] "Tanks a lot..."
If one or more units involved in the combat is an engaged vehicle, all of the above rules apply normally, substituting "vehicle" where it says "unit". Hits against the vehicle are applied against the facing as they would normally be determined.

[6] "To the victor go the spoils..."
Friendly units that are damaged/destroyed by firing into close combat are counted as victory/kill points for the opposing player.