<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "IG v Eldar"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net IG v Eldar IG with his eldar. He was just a troll, but he raised a couple good points.

It seems like Eldar and IG have codices that are the other's weakness. Wave serpents moving fast enough are almost invulnerable to almost all IG's anti-tank weapons. IG has hydras that eat eldar for breakfast. Bright lances eat russes for breakfast, Russes eat Eldar infantry for lunch. IG can bring 3 drive-by meltagun shots. Eldar can bring 10 meltagun shots on foot.

My question is, who has the advantage, assuming equally skilled generals with equally diverse model lines, Eldar, or Imperial Guard? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017298.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017298.page GMT IG v Eldar IG have the advantage. They have units that can accomplish the same role that many Eldar units can, almost as efficiently, but for extremely reduced costs, and have more dual-role units as well.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017560.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017560.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017575.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017575.page GMT IG v Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017599.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017599.page GMT IG v Eldar
Valkyrie Vendettas cost less then Serpent with Missle Launcher and Spirit stones and have 3 twin linked las cannons vs 1 twin linked missle launcher.

Valkyrie has scout which allows for first turn alpha strikes or outflanking.

IG Veteran scoring Troops can have meltas which they can shoot out of Chimeras to drop Eldar tanks.

IG Infantry can have las cannons/auto cannons which they can twin link via orders from an inexpensive Platoon command to have a better shot at killing Eldar vehicles.

Guard heavies put out high strength templates which kill Eldar infantry pretty fast or have a decent shot of killing tanks.

In contrast
Eldar has to take elites fire dragons to get meltas who have to jump out of their vehicle to shoot
Eldar are infantry can take bright lances but they are expensive and require a more expensive farseer to guide.
Eldar heavies aren't too effective at anti tank str9 is no better then a las cannon and their large template is lower strength.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017625.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017625.page GMT IG v Eldar IG codex. Kirika's arguments help support that stance...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017717.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017717.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar IG army.

I have face the new IG codex about a dozen times now and have lost once. The IG General is a good player and has been playing since RT times.

Although, I did rethink my Eldar list when the new IG codex came out.

After some really close games I came up with little, subtle, tricks to kill those devastating tanks.

The best one, or most successful, was sticking an Autarch with a fusion gun in a squad of Warp Spiders and deepstriking by the tanks or a nasty shooty squad by the edge. The results were either a popped tank or a squad falling back off the table, most of the time. Then I would use the assault phase warp jump and try to get some cover. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017915.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1017915.page GMT IG v Eldar
The eldar have skimmer transports that can carry much stronger guns than the chimera.

The chimera chassis however is AV 12, an entire army built on them will lessen the point of bringing lance weapons.

Dire Avengers can outshoot almost any infantry given the position to do so.

Veterans can carry special weapons, that can destroy the transports that Dire Avengers need.

The Valk/Vendetta is also a skimmer, and much stronger (if more expensive) than the wave serpent.

IG has few counters to the Seer Council, even a leeman russ demolisher squad wouldn't probably do much to one that had turbo boosted and had fortune...griffin or flames from a chimera could probably do it, but that's assuming a lot of maneuvering. The better way would probably be just FRFSRF them

IG can't outmaneuver Guardian Jetbikes, nor outshoot fire prisms...however, the guard has many MORE vehicles if the eldar chose to load up on these two expensive units, making the jetbikes and prisms huge targets for all the shots in the IG force.

IG however, can take allies, Grey Knights, Black Templars, and Inquisitors. While these forces may not be that strong on their own, they can help fill in some of the holes in the IG (which is actually kind of fitting) Eldar can't really do this, their holes need to be filled with more aspect warriors.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018092.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018092.page GMT IG v Eldar
Just because a hydra ignores a skimmers flat out save does NOT mean it eats them for breakfast LOL. You still need to roll a 6 to pen and I hope you are playing a noob that left the skimmer OUT of cover vs your hydras.

A unit of hydras is only going to kill one skimmer per turn, AND it has to roll a 6, then a 5 or a 6, then I fail my 4+ LOS cover on one of those 4 BS3 shots...

Riiiiight...It CAN happen but no st7 weapon eats av12 for breakfast. Its like saying heavy bolters eat rhinos for breakfast.

Its like saying lascannons eat land raiders for breakfast! LOL!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically if you are playing Eldar with IG you are either experienced for take all comers and have lascannon out the ass, or you are a noob who tweaked your list to have as many autocannons as possible. Either way I am happy. You waste a ton of points on st 9 and meltas, or you take a weapon that has to get super lucky to pen me.

To be honest I would rather play vs the all st 7. You still have the same chance of penning my 3 fire prisms rather than 9 vs 12~~!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018139.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018139.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar LOS cover save on all your skimmers, you are playing far too defensively.

That, and if you don't remember, hydras all have 2, twin-linked hydra autocannons. that is 4 shots per model. 3 hydras put out 12 TL BS3 S7 shots.

That is 9 hits on average. That is at least one pen and one glance, on average.

3 hydras have to get incredibly UNlucky to not kill a wave serpent. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018224.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018224.page GMT IG v Eldar
Far too defensive? That is how you play mech eldar. The entire army is defensive the only reason you even have 5 man dire avenger squads is to score and one turn mob a pesky unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And dont forget on that ONE pen you tehn have to roll a 5 or 6 THEN get past my 4+ if I have one. Not that it matters.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018264.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018264.page GMT IG v Eldar ppm, their 72" range, and the fact that you have to kill 3 of them to take them out, that means that they'll probably kill 3-5 wave serpents per game.

Now please leave this thread. I don't want you to get this one locked like you got the last one locked.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018278.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018278.page GMT IG v Eldar lol.

Im just saying there are a lot better choices in the IG codex for vs Eldar!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018281.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018281.page GMT IG v Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018288.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018288.page GMT IG v Eldar
If that's how you want to block it out go ahead, I am just giving sound advice from my POV. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018308.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018308.page GMT IG v Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018313.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018313.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar IG army.
The reason is Lanchester's square law. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018384.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018384.page GMT IG v Eldar IG that outnumber eldar?
Chimeras are cheaper than wave serpents, vendetta's valks are cheaper than similarly upgraded fire prisms and better, and IG can get like 6 chimeras to the FOC slot. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018420.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018420.page GMT IG v Eldar The Veterans will need to get out of their Chimera to be able to fire (no sane Eldar player is going to park his Wave Serpent where the IG player can keep his Veterans inside the transports and still fire). Once the Veterans are out of their Chimera, they will die, so they really only get one shot.

Hydra Flak Tanks are a pain in the ass for most Eldar players. They should be the Eldar players primary target and should be taken out fairly quickly (Fire Dragons or a Seer Council will do it turn 2 usually).

Vendetta's really are the most annoying to an Eldar player. Sure those Lascannons are only S8 against the Wave Serpent's Energy Fields, but they are pretty hard for an Eldar player to take out. Most of the reliable anti-vehicle units of the Eldar are short ranged, which makes it pretty hard to destroy the fast moving Vendetta's.

Leman Russ tanks are usually a bad idea against an Eldar player. Fire Dragons, Seer Councils and Bright Lances all destroy the Leman Russ just as easily as they destroy other tanks, the Leman Russ just cost more. Besides, the Leman Russ don't have any weapons which are exceptionally good against the Eldar.

From the IG players point of view, the Seer Council is the biggest threat. IG players should watch out for multiple tank charges, as the Seer Council will have no problem wrecking them all. Doing lots of wounds to the Seer Council is the best way to make it disappear. This won't be easy though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018472.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018472.page GMT IG v Eldar IG, and both armies have such varied builds that to generalize things as to which is better is really simplistic. If we go with current trends (ie mech vs mech), if the game is about scoring IG has the slight advantage due to cheaper scoring units, as well as more units that can also contest. If the game is about KP, then you can eldar can have an advantage especially if their units can pulloff a multiunit assault.

in these games, I say that by turn 2 or 3 you can already tell who will win. If the eldar manages to get in among the IG lines by turn 2, then they have a great chance to win. If conversely if they get bogged dwon in a firefight at this time, the eldar will most likely lose as no army can beat the IG in a shooting slugfest.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018481.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018481.page GMT IG v Eldar
Airmaniac wrote:What are all those Chimera's going to do? Usually people arm them with a Multi-Laser and a Heavy Flamer. This means the Chimera's are no threat to the Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms of the Eldar player. Only the Veterans inside the Chimera, with their 3 Meltaguns, are able to hurt the Wave Serpents, but their chances aren't all that good (3 shots, 2 hits, 2/3 pens, 1/3 destroyed).
The Veterans will need to get out of their Chimera to be able to fire (no sane Eldar player is going to park his Wave Serpent where the IG player can keep his Veterans inside the transports and still fire). Once the Veterans are out of their Chimera, they will die, so they really only get one shot.

Hydra Flak Tanks are a pain in the ass for most Eldar players. They should be the Eldar players primary target and should be taken out fairly quickly (Fire Dragons or a Seer Council will do it turn 2 usually).

Vendetta's really are the most annoying to an Eldar player. Sure those Lascannons are only S8 against the Wave Serpent's Energy Fields, but they are pretty hard for an Eldar player to take out. Most of the reliable anti-vehicle units of the Eldar are short ranged, which makes it pretty hard to destroy the fast moving Vendetta's.

Leman Russ tanks are usually a bad idea against an Eldar player. Fire Dragons, Seer Councils and Bright Lances all destroy the Leman Russ just as easily as they destroy other tanks, the Leman Russ just cost more. Besides, the Leman Russ don't have any weapons which are exceptionally good against the Eldar.

From the IG players point of view, the Seer Council is the biggest threat. IG players should watch out for multiple tank charges, as the Seer Council will have no problem wrecking them all. Doing lots of wounds to the Seer Council is the best way to make it disappear. This won't be easy though.



The Leman Russ Battle Tank has a 72 inch range with it's main gun, outraging most eldar weaponry while able to lay an instant kill template on any unit within that range and be confident in inflicting at least a few casualties with it's AP 3 while still bringing enough power to blow apart a wave serpent if need be. never-mind the arty that could do the same from behind cover.

An Eldar player would have to use cover as much as possible to limit casualties, (although with some IG weapons even that is difficult) while all the IG player has to do is limit their mobility. Fire dragons aren't that scary when ther're across the table only moving 6 inches a turn.

in an equal skill match up, the initial favor is with the guard, as they have powerful ranged weapons as well as the option to counter eldar physic powers with inquisitors
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018482.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018482.page GMT IG v Eldar 2D6 pick highest for penetration against the Energy Field, so only 1/3 of the hits will penetrate. Then 1/3 of those will destroy the Wave Serpent, if it hadn't boosted in which case 1/2 of those are ignored. So really, the Leman Russ isn't all that great against Mech Eldar.

You are assuming the IG army is strong enough to destroy all Fire Dragon transports in a single shooting phase, as one turn is all the Fire Dragons need to boost over to your side of the table. Let alone when the Eldar player actually wins first turn, when you can't do anything about them coming close to you.

Where we live, people don't ally Inquisitors with Mystics and a Psychic Hood to their 5th Edition Imperial armies. Those allying rules are obviously outdated so they aren't used where we live.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018517.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018517.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar
You are assuming the IG army is strong enough to destroy all Fire Dragon transports in a single shooting phase

3 Hydras, Infantry heavy weapons with Bring It Down!, vendettas, valks, artillery, leman russes, a good guard army will include at least a couple of those, and a high points guard army might contain them all.

Where we live, people don't ally Inquisitors with Mystics and a Psychic Hood to their 5th Edition Imperial armies. Those allying rules are obviously outdated so they aren't used where we live.

Where I live, it's considered alright to be a racist and you can buy fresh corn next to the place you buy illegal drugs.
That doesn't mean it's right. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018522.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018522.page GMT IG v Eldar IG army has the upper hand, then why did you make this topic in the first place?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018541.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018541.page GMT IG v Eldar
Airmaniac wrote:

You are assuming the IG army is strong enough to destroy all Fire Dragon transports in a single shooting phase, as one turn is all the Fire Dragons need to boost over to your side of the table. Let alone when the Eldar player actually wins first turn, when you can't do anything about them coming close to you.


Most IG armies have a lot of firepower these days, and they don't need to destroy every Wave serpent, just the one with the dragons in. then the next mobile threat, then the next. they have the range and surplus of heavy weapons to have a decent chance at doing it, and no army is going to be able to hide from Evey IG unit. Identifying and prioritizing threats also helps

Airmaniac wrote:Where we live, people don't ally Inquisitors with Mystics and a Psychic Hood to their 5th Edition Imperial armies. Those allying rules are obviously outdated so they aren't used where we live.


This is a hypothetical situation, IG Options vs Eldar options, what you and i choose to do doesn't matter, but until GW comes out with an answer, Inquisitors are still an IG option and thus are relivent to this discussion.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018545.page GMT IG v Eldar
Canonness Rory wrote:vendetta's valks are cheaper than similarly upgraded fire prisms and better


They are? I thought a group of fire prisams could put out a S10 template or two. That's way more nasty than a couple of lascannons (though, the Valkarie is pretty mean to infantry and light transports)

Edit: I guess what I mean is the Valk/Vendettas are transports first, and fast attack seccond (and heavy support never) Comparing a Valkarie to a Fire prism is like trying to compare a sheep to a basketball. It'd be better to compare the prism to say, the LRD. (in which case, the prism has range and speed, but the Demolisher has far more armor)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018657.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018657.page GMT IG v Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018691.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018691.page GMT IG v Eldar IG have the advantage

I play Eldar, and my force is designed to combat a blanced opponent, one that will move towards me the same amount as i do to him/her. So it leads to me struggling more against a static/all-shooty army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018703.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018703.page GMT IG v Eldar
Canonness Rory wrote:What about mech IG that outnumber eldar?
Chimeras are cheaper than wave serpents, vendetta's valks are cheaper than similarly upgraded fire prisms and better, and IG can get like 6 chimeras to the FOC slot.

I'd take an army (1000- 1500 pts) with Serpents (stones and shuricannons)
transporting Dire Avengers, Storm Guardians, and Fire Dragons.
The army would be led by a Doomseer.

Chimeras would get down by targeting side armor (shuricannons),
Leman Russes would be targeted by Fire Dragons, and
Dire Avengers and Storm Guardians would take on doomed infantry. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018710.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018710.page GMT IG v Eldar
PanamaG wrote:
Riiiiight...It CAN happen but no st7 weapon eats av12 for breakfast.


What about Deffgunz?

Edit: I just mathhammered this, 15 deffguns average around 9 hits, 3 hydras also average 9 hits. After that, it's just a matter of how many glances/pens can you get? All you really need to do to a transport is imoblize it, one pen is enough. And for a unit to pop/disable a transport per turn, that's pretty good!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018735.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018735.page GMT IG v Eldar IG army field?
None! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018928.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1018928.page GMT IG v Eldar
wuestenfux wrote:Well, how many Hydras will a normal IG army field?
None!


The IG armor-spam lists around here do field Hydras, and then as many melta-carrying Chimeras as possible.
I really think IG have the upper hand in this one, as my win record vs this list isn't that strong. I just can't field enough firepower for the points, to deal with all those threats.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020159.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020159.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar IG. Now that will be likely to change if GW gets a model for the hydra actually out and in the stores, but atm they are very rare. A hydra doesnt add enough to a general IG list to make many people want to do that amount of converting.

The dangerous part of an IG army for eldar really is the valk/ vendetta arm. Its the only thing thats fast enough to matter, its as cheap as a serpent or prism, and its very heavily armed (especially for its point cost). And the big thing is that the valk/ vendetta works very well against almost any army so we do see a lot of them.

Chimera spam is pretty easy to beat by comparison; and while a lot of heavy armor can cripple many lists, the eldar are one of the better set to face a lot of av14 tanks. Yes heavy tanks or chimera spam can do very well, no it doesnt create any special problems for the eldar. So of the common IG builds, I find the most problems with the ones focussed on valk/ vendettas.


A lot would depend of course on whether or not the met\eting between the eldar and IG is in a random match up or a planned set piece fight. Mecheldar vs an IG army to face all comers will have a better day than mechdar vs IG who know they are playing eldar. For one thing, its not too likely that the IG player will waste points on a psycher squad if he knows hes facing eldar, but in a general list 1-2 of them is pretty standard. The IG can do more to change their army than the eldar can, they have a much newer codex and that codex got some really nice toys added this time around. So if its set matchup then the IG has more options in how to tailor his forces ... make up some counts-as hydras and leave the russes at home sort of thing.


Sliggoth]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020185.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020185.page GMT IG v Eldar ig force with a ton of heavy weapons and no tanks. The eldar army I was playing had no tanks either. My mortars pinned his guys, and all my heavy bolters and autocannons ripped them to shreds. It was a complete massacre. I'm a new player, so I'm sure if he just had a bad list, but the imperial guard really outperformed the eldar.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020442.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020442.page GMT IG v Eldar
The IG armor-spam lists around here do field Hydras, and then as many melta-carrying Chimeras as possible.

If the enemy fields Hydras I'll take them down or silence them at first sight.
Meltas don't work well vs Serpents, thanks to their energy field.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020468.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020468.page GMT IG v Eldar str 8 an AP1. Str 8 vs. armor 12, means you've still got a 50% chance for a damaging hit, and if the wave serpent has moved flat out then a failed cover save results in a wrecked tank on a 5 or 6 on a glance! On a pen it is wrecked on a 3+. You ignore melta weapons at risk of your own demise with a wave serpent.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020480.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020480.page GMT IG v Eldar They approach the enemy by moving at speed of 12'' and keep on shooting the enemy.
If I play Serpent spam I usually don't care if one is going down.

The only melta unit that IG has are Veterans with 3 meltas loeaded in a Valkyrie or a Chimera.
I might stop them before they can get too close. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020505.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020505.page GMT IG v Eldar
Meltas are dangerous whichever way, and If an IG player is outnumbering you 2-1 then he can pretty easily put simultaneous pressure on your line so you can't just avoid them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020536.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020536.page GMT IG v Eldar
willydstyle wrote:
Meltas are dangerous whichever way, and If an IG player is outnumbering you 2-1 then he can pretty easily put simultaneous pressure on your line so you can't just avoid them.

Well, meltas are dangerous.
But I usually target the closest threats so that meltas will have a hard time to reach my front ranks.

I'll keep the army together and target one flank of a shooty army. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020540.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020540.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020749.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020749.page GMT IG v Eldar
EMLs and Bright Lances aren't particularly effective ranged anti-tank, as they don't have AP1 or bonus dice.

There's a reason why you're not seeing lascannons in many marine lists, and lascannons are better anti-tank than bright lances against all but a few vehicles.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020918.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020918.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar
Canonness Rory wrote:Well, an army entirely out of meltavets will reach your lines before you can take them out. An army with support will have plenty of autocannons, lascannons, and missile launchers to take you out at range while you're shooting at the vets.


Mech Eldar armies don't have lines and meltavets don't have the speed to keep up with the Eldar. Either they need to get out to fire (ensuring their own demise a turn later for a fairly small chance to destroy one skimmer) or they will have a total range of 18", which isn't that hard to avoid for the Eldar player (unless the IG player is spreading out, in which case the Eldar player will press one flank hard).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020986.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1020986.page GMT IG v Eldar 40K) battles swing back and forth fast while armies try to get a good position.

In this sense, I think the Eldar have an advantage...slightly, against guard in chimeras.

Guard in Valkaries however can counter the Eldar mobility.

It boils down to "Is more shots better than better shots at the same BS?" Guard has more shots, Eldar have 'better shots' that aren't really better because they still miss half the time. (Note: Right now I'm just comparing the skimmers, though it's worth mentioning that a Wave Serpant can ram a Valkarie to death edit: Well, I mean they would be able to....if the Valk's flying base wasn't so high :( )]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021182.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021182.page GMT IG v Eldar http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021189.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021189.page GMT IG v Eldar
willydstyle wrote:Actually wave serpents can't ram a valkyrie because a wave serpent can't come in contact with the valk's hull because it is so high.
I thought the FAQ addressed this and had you treat the base as the target for situations like assaults, disembarking and ramming?

DoW ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021727.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021727.page GMT IG v Eldar FAQ addressed disembarking and scoring. You've always been able to assault the base of a skimmer so that didn't need to be covered.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021813.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021813.page GMT IG v Eldar
willydstyle wrote:I believe the FAQ addressed disembarking and scoring. You've always been able to assault the base of a skimmer so that didn't need to be covered.
You sir, are correct. (If anyone else is curious, see here)

RAW I would say you're absolutely right that no vehicle can ram a Valkyrie unless it can actually come in contact with the hull. To be fair, I would probably house rule it so that you could... even though I don't REALLY want you to. Naturally it still gets the skimmer dodging ability, of course.

DoW ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021826.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021826.page GMT IG v Eldar
guard are able to out number most any army right now, even with tanks.

only real viable anti-tank eldar have are dragons, lances are just missle launchers, their effect only working on the heavy tanks

vendettas will tear apart eldar tanks for the most part because 3 twin linked lascannons can be cheesy (as per my local opponents)

all a guard has to do is lock your dragons down (usually only a max of 2 squads), then blast em away (rather easily with PBS and leman russes) thats pretty easy, and with the guard's numbers, the amount of chances they will need due to their BS can be made in one turn. leaving the rest of the game for the army to tear apart your other guys

as a guard player, i love playing against lances, because they allow me to be more leniant with the facing of my leman russes, because my side is gonna be 12 anyways so it doesn't matter.

i think fighting mechdar is just like facing dark mechdar.

cept just mechdar have less lances and some reletively easy to kill meltas.

i can't say for sure because i haven't encountered mechdar on a regular basis but i think ig has the upperhand because they can just cram more shots into the eldar's stuff, and all you having to do is shaking a lance to make it innefective (with ig big guns thats not hard).

there's just not enough punch to eldar to break through a ig list of any kind of armor. i can see a good fight coming out but not the eldar winning by more than a hair.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021877.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021877.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar SMF and line of sight blocking to say...hydras there is a good chance that the dragons will get at least one squadron, especially the hydras that are supposedly so devastating. Besides, with so many armies going mechanized it's more likely that there will be at least two FD units on the board than just one.

As for the mechanized vets, both can match the other for speed. The vets have their AT weapons spread though six-eight squads in the form of melta-guns. They can take las cannons, but from what I've seen posted here, most people don't. Vendettas, which seem to be preferred over Valkyries have more firepower than a wave serpent, and fire prism, and just above a falcon. The eldar tanks however, are more durable with holo-fields and energy-fields on their appropriate vehicles, and have higher quality infantry. The advantage the eldar has in mech versus mech is that it can field more AV12 skimmers with less compromise to their force. Eight Vendettas carrying six squads of vets, and to CCS all with max meltas is 1820 points, with the only upgrades being the meltas. That army now has 180 points left for the massive firepower commented on earlier. Meanwhile an eldar army consisting of two farseers with fortune/guide 20 Fire Dragons, 15 Dire Avengers, Five wave serpents and three falcons with scatter-lasers and holo-fields are roughly 1850 +/- 15 points. Eight IG skimmers and 70 men to seven skimmers and 37 men. But again, how much additional firepower can the IG player add for those 180 points? A pair of hydras? A ninth Vendetta? Stormtroopers? A single lemon russ? For the let's say 150 points for the eldar player he's going to be adding upgrades, and expanding his squads. He really doesn't need to add an eighth "heavy" skimmer. At most he is going to "downgrade" the falcons to Fire prisms to gain more points, and/or will add vypers, or mount his farseers on bikes and add retinues. (by the way, I used falcons for the example both because they ARE more expensive than fireprisms, and because they are possibly a better choice against IG Aircav.) If the IG player starts to remove skimmers to add more (comparatively) static support than the eldar player starts to gain an advantage in speed, and becomes more capable of concentrating his firepower on the IG's weak links. In addition he can use his own skimmers as cover, while still being able to bring fire on the Vendettas, while shielding himself from the slower elements of the IG army, only allowing the non-skimmer elements of the IG direct LOS on a few chosen vehicles at a time.

As the IG player removes more Vendettas to gain the increased firepower, his army becomes less mobile, allowing the eldar player more choices on where he will hit the IG lines, and yes I do mean lines, as the less mobile force will be forced into groups for mutual self-defense based on available line of sight to avoid being destroyed piecemeal.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021987.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1021987.page GMT IG v Eldar
Kirika wrote:I'd have to say Imperial Guard has the advantage.

Valkyrie Vendettas cost less then Serpent with Missle Launcher and Spirit stones and have 3 twin linked las cannons vs 1 twin linked missle launcher.

Valkyrie has scout which allows for first turn alpha strikes or outflanking.

IG Veteran scoring Troops can have meltas which they can shoot out of Chimeras to drop Eldar tanks.

IG Infantry can have las cannons/auto cannons which they can twin link via orders from an inexpensive Platoon command to have a better shot at killing Eldar vehicles.

Guard heavies put out high strength templates which kill Eldar infantry pretty fast or have a decent shot of killing tanks.

In contrast
Eldar has to take elites fire dragons to get meltas who have to jump out of their vehicle to shoot
Eldar are infantry can take bright lances but they are expensive and require a more expensive farseer to guide.
Eldar heavies aren't too effective at anti tank str9 is no better then a las cannon and their large template is lower strength.




Eldar Heavies not good at AT? Want to rethink that?
Fire Prisms, Falcons, Missile armed War walkers, Wraithlords will all make micemeat of tanks, and that large blast kills your men on 2s, no Armour Saves allowed.

Every one seems to think Mechdar is the only way. What about jetbike heavy lists? Fantastic. You have exactly 1 turn of shooting before 10 Shining Spears tear you a new and interesting hole. Your Leman Russes will not like that. Gunline ANYTHING does not like Striking Scorpions appearing from the sidelines and Demolishing you. As much as averyone hates them, Swooping Hawks can cause a lot of problems.

Against mech, it's even easier. 4 or five jetbike squads with Shuricannons and warlocks will take down Chimeras easily. I played successful eldar. I don't own any Wave Serpents. However I may when I restart them...


And Cannoness Rory, I think the Panama guy was not trolling, and he had a lot of very valid points.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1022078.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1022078.page GMT IG v Eldar
Jimi Nemesis wrote:
Eldar Heavies not good at AT? Want to rethink that?
Fire Prisms, Falcons, Missile armed War walkers, Wraithlords will all make micemeat of tanks, and that large blast kills your men on 2s, no Armour Saves allowed.

A Prism has a one shot 60" Blast Lascannon, not really what I call amazing. Two have a one shot 60" rail gun between them. Really, Fire Prisms are better for their large blast than the small one.

Falcons: Best they can do is 3 BS3 S8 shots, and can't do it moving over 6". They aren't AP1 either.

Warwalkers are also BS3 and get 2 missiles each (or 2 BL, which are worse than Lascannons for even more points). It's passable, but not optimum or even great as anti-tank. Missiles can't dent AV14 either, and Brightlances are expensive so it's not cost efficient (and the range is lower meaning the AV10 Warwalkers are even more vulnerable).

Wraithlords make mincemeat of tanks... if they're in base to base with it. It's a slow moving walker so it's not hard to avoid combat. It's BS4 heavy weapons (has to mix brightlance and missile to get 2 shots as doubling twin linkes them) are ok, but expensive and not totally amazing.

I think I read a thread somewhere here that Guard do 75% of what Eldar do for 50% of the cost; that pretty much sums it up.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1022375.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1022375.page GMT IG v Eldar IG army can pump out at close range targets means they'll only last so long. Against an IG player, an eldar player really has to pick his battles wisely and try to be elusive. Take out the mobile IG elements early, and try to pick off isolated targets later. Much easier said than done,and getting into gunfights with vendetta isn't that great of an option either...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1022412.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1022412.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar LR.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1022537.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1022537.page GMT Re:IG v Eldar ig autocannons are scary too me. I don't have much experience playing eldar, but I've played against guard enough to how much damage they can do and this was before they had valks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1065420.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1065420.page GMT IG v Eldar
wuestenfux wrote:Well, Serpents do generally not move flat out.
They approach the enemy by moving at speed of 12'' and keep on shooting the enemy.
If I play Serpent spam I usually don't care if one is going down.

The only melta unit that IG has are Veterans with 3 meltas loeaded in a Valkyrie or a Chimera.
I might stop them before they can get too close.


for mixed lists there are also platoon command squads in chimeras...who can and usually do carry 4 meltaguns....

and there are some players who play deep striking storm trooper units, who also can carry meltaguns...

mechvets are NOT the only build despite what other IG players may say...although most successful armies do have a very strong mech component at least....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1067748.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259291/1067748.page GMT