<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Irregularities in SW codex"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/15.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Irregularities in SW codex
Njal some how doesn't lose his bolt pistol when switching to term armor. So +1 attack in charge for 2 hth weapons, in term armor,
Njals jaws of the world wolf. How wide is that straight line? No provision set down in codex.
Arjac Rockfist is really 188pts. You must first buy the wolf guard 18pts, then upgrade +170.

RB]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022442.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022442.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
1: Yes, he keeps his Bolt Pistol, he is just that awesome. How is this an "Irregularity" when the rules are clear?

2: Look up "Line" on Google. By Definition, a line has no width, however, as we live in a 3d world, everything must have 3 dimensions minimum, so the easiest solution is to use a bit of string.

3: Well done, just like Lukas, and Creed, and other upgrade characters. Your point?

Trust me, those are not issues. I have poured over the codex for a month now, and they do not come close to some of the stuff that's FUBARed in the codex, like Wolf Scouts not having the "Scouts" USR, or Fenrisian Wolves not benefiting from ATSKNF, or half of Njal's Lord of Tempest effects not working if the SW player is going 2nd.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022449.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022449.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Gwar! wrote:
2: Look up "Line" on Google. By Definition, a line has no width, however, as we live in a 3d world, everything must have 3 dimensions minimum, so the easiest solution is to use a bit of string.

? you can make a 2D line.Take tape measure look along one edge. If it cuts through a base then that models been hit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022487.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022487.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Tri wrote:
Gwar! wrote:
2: Look up "Line" on Google. By Definition, a line has no width, however, as we live in a 3d world, everything must have 3 dimensions minimum, so the easiest solution is to use a bit of string.

? you can make a 2D line.Take tape measure look along one edge. If it cuts through a base then that models been hit.
Yes, but that is technically a Rectangle, as it has a length and (albeit negligible, atomic scale) width, while a 1 dimensional line by mathematical definition has only length, no other dimensions.

Just being nit picky ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022496.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022496.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Tri wrote:
Gwar! wrote:
2: Look up "Line" on Google. By Definition, a line has no width, however, as we live in a 3d world, everything must have 3 dimensions minimum, so the easiest solution is to use a bit of string.

? you can make a 2D line.Take tape measure look along one edge. If it cuts through a base then that models been hit.


The mathematical definition of a line states it has no thickness. That is technically impossible to do, since anything you use to represent it will have some degree of thickness. Of course, who cares? That's a forum argument, not a real one. You use whatever the thinnest piece of material handy is when it comes time to actually make the line, which will probably be a side ways tape measure.

What's left is for someone to argue the line is not used in a mathematical context, so it can have thickness! To that I say, a tool used to determine numbers (of models hit) is indeed a tool used in a mathematical context. It has no thickness.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022507.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022507.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Gwar! wrote:
Tri wrote:
Gwar! wrote:
2: Look up "Line" on Google. By Definition, a line has no width, however, as we live in a 3d world, everything must have 3 dimensions minimum, so the easiest solution is to use a bit of string.

? you can make a 2D line.Take tape measure look along one edge. If it cuts through a base then that models been hit.
Yes, but that is technically a Rectangle, as it has a length and (albeit negligible, atomic scale) width, while a 1 dimensional line by mathematical definition has only length, no other dimensions.

Just being nit picky
No no not the tape measure. The edge. If a base pass under the EDGE its been hit.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022522.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022522.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022538.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022538.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022552.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022552.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex JOTWW I personally like a bit of rubber band. You have the Space Wolf player hold one end on his Rune Priest and you pull it taut to where he directs and mark all the models it touches.

Then you let it go and snap his hand for using such a cheezy power. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022554.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022554.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Tri wrote:See above image its ether to the one side or the other of the edge (miss) if its both then you're going through it. Only tough calls will be when it could be skimming a base.
IT STILL HAS A THICKNESS! Of about 1 atom, so it's not a line, it's a rectangle! Now I am getting petty, but yes, I do it how you do it too.

The Green Git wrote:For JOTWW I personally like a bit of rubber band. You have the Space Wolf player hold one end on his Rune Priest and you pull it taut to where he directs and mark all the models it touches.

Then you let it go and snap his hand for using such a cheezy power.

Cheese = Whatever my Opponent is playing tbfh. Adapt or Die as they say.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022562.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022562.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
I think the string idea is the best solution for convenience and for not actually holding any hard objects over our precious minis.

An edge does not have a thickness. The area between one edge and another has a thickness, but the edge is the actual cut off point. Determining what is under a straight edge is the same as determining what falls under a line. It doesnt matter if you use the edge of a phone book laying flat or a ruler laying flat, what is going to fall under that actual flat edge is going to be the same. I think the OP is concerned with people measuring between the edges of a ruler, or in my example, a phone book. The width should not even be a consideration.

Sorry in advance if I did a bad job of constructing my point.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022625.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022625.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Majesticgoat wrote:I never thought I would see the thickness of a line come up in a debate.

I think the string idea is the best solution for convenience and for not actually holding any hard objects over our precious minis.

An edge does not have a thickness. The area between one edge and another has a thickness, but the edge is the actual cut off point. Determining what is under a straight edge is the same as determining what falls under a line. It doesnt matter if you use the edge of a phone book laying flat or a ruler laying flat, what is going to fall under that actual flat edge is going to be the same. I think the OP is concerned with people measuring between the edges of a ruler, or in my example, a phone book. The width should not even be a consideration.

Sorry in advance if I did a bad job of constructing my point.



Sadly, apparently the thickness of a line is so questionable that we even need two separate threads talking about it ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022675.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex SM codex. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022695.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022695.page GMT Re:Irregularities in SW codex USR? It has been my experience that most of the units that have scout are speedy types. Oh, and why, oh why would Fenrisian Wolves have ATSKNF?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022749.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022749.page GMT Re:Irregularities in SW codex
warpcrafter wrote:Do Wolf Scouts have the Infiltrate USR? It has been my experience that most of the units that have scout are speedy types. Oh, and why, oh why would Fenrisian Wolves have ATSKNF?


Yes, Scouts have Infiltrate.

Fenrisisan Wolves don't have ATSKNF, they are just subject to it. They specified that a unit of them joined by a Space Wolf will convey it to them, they don't have it by themselves. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022754.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022754.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex BTW, pg. 88 (nevermind... missing an "s").

Homer


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gwar! wrote:*** SNIP ***
Fenrisian Wolves not benefiting from ATSKNF
*** SNIP***

Last I checked, Wolves are not Space Marines. So how can they be endowed by the Emperor with ATSKNF? I think this one is probably correct.

Homer]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022796.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022796.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Homer S wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gwar! wrote:*** SNIP ***
Fenrisian Wolves not benefiting from ATSKNF
*** SNIP***

Last I checked, Wolves are not Space Marines. So how can they be endowed by the Emperor with ATSKNF? I think this one is probably correct.

Homer

No, what Gwar! is referring to stems from his interpretation of RAW. He said in another thread the break is because the wording in the codex says the unit of wolves must contain at least one Space Marine rather than saying Space Wolf.

This is an interpretation of RAW that I believe to be incorrect. Space Wolves are Space Marines. It works just fine as written.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022814.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022814.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Kaaihn wrote:
Homer S wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gwar! wrote:*** SNIP ***
Fenrisian Wolves not benefiting from ATSKNF
*** SNIP***

Last I checked, Wolves are not Space Marines. So how can they be endowed by the Emperor with ATSKNF? I think this one is probably correct.

Homer

No, what Gwar! is referring to stems from his interpretation of RAW. He said in another thread the break is because the wording in the codex says the unit of wolves must contain at least one Space Marine rather than saying Space Wolf.

This is an interpretation of RAW that I believe to be incorrect. Space Wolves are Space Marines. It works just fine as written.

Sorry, I was unclear. In my post "Wolves" means "Fenrisian Wolves" not "Space Wolves"

Homer]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022824.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Homer S wrote:
Kaaihn wrote:
Homer S wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gwar! wrote:*** SNIP ***
Fenrisian Wolves not benefiting from ATSKNF
*** SNIP***

Last I checked, Wolves are not Space Marines. So how can they be endowed by the Emperor with ATSKNF? I think this one is probably correct.

Homer

No, what Gwar! is referring to stems from his interpretation of RAW. He said in another thread the break is because the wording in the codex says the unit of wolves must contain at least one Space Marine rather than saying Space Wolf.

This is an interpretation of RAW that I believe to be incorrect. Space Wolves are Space Marines. It works just fine as written.

Sorry, I was unclear. In my post "Wolves" means "Fenrisian Wolves" not "Space Wolves"

Homer


No, you were clear. Gwar commented that Fenrisian Wolves not benefiting from ATSKNF is broken. You commented that is probably correct, how can wolves be endowed by the Emperor with ATSKNF?

I'm pointing out Gwar isn't saying that Fenrisian Wolves don't benefit because they are wolves, he is saying they don't benefit because of a typo. If the wording said "contains at least one Space Wolf" rather than "contains at least one Space Marine", there would be no perception of a problem.

I say perception, because I don't believe his interpretation of RAW here is correct. Space Wolves are Space Marines, the rule works just fine as written. As written, Fenrisian Wolves benefit from ATSKNF if there is at least one Space Wolf Space Marine in the unit.

Space Marine in that sentence is not referring exclusively to units in Codex: Space Marines. That's where the confusion comes from. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022840.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022840.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex ATSKNF', they would... have ATSKNF, right?

It's like how Markerlights benefit Tau models - what's a Tau model? Is it anyone from the Codex: Tau? Is it everyone that's not a Kroot or Vespid?

And this is what happens when GW writes rules. You get a bunch of nutters arguing over what is a Space Marine. It'd be nice if GW would clear this up, but I doubt it happens. I doubt that you have an issue with it in a tourney. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022856.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1022856.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Kaaihn wrote:Sadly, apparently the thickness of a line is so questionable that we even need two separate threads talking about it


Of course. It's all part of the plan. GW is following the time-honored strategy of creating a problem and then selling the solution. Stay tuned for the new Citadel Laser Level for $59. It's the perfect tool for lining up your shot. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1023035.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1023035.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
dietrich wrote:If they had said "one Space Wolf" that'd be a different headache. What is a Space Wolf? Is it a unit from the Space Wolf codex? Fenrisian wolves are in the Space Wolf codex, therefore if 'Fenrisian wolves need one Space Wolf model to gain ATSKNF', they would... have ATSKNF, right?
Considering it uses Space Wolf 2 or 3 times before it in the ATSKNF rule, I think it's safe to say it is meant to say Space Wolf in the last instance as well.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1023159.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1023159.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex INV save? Or does he just freeze?

For example say he is fighting abbadabdon and abby kills lucas what happens next, and also say some of abbies retinue are in base to base with lucas?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1025093.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1025093.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
beef wrote:Does the model that dies by lucas get an INV save? Or does he just freeze?

For example say he is fighting abbadabdon and abby kills lucas what happens next, and also say some of abbies retinue are in base to base with lucas?

When Lukas dies, you and your opponent roll a die. If Lukas rolls higher, all models in base contact with him are removed from play as casualties. No saving throw, just hope you roll higher than Lukas when he dies.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1025107.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1025107.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Still doesn't justify his insane cost.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1025210.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1025210.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Gwar! wrote:No saving throws, no Judge, no Jury, just removed as a casualty.

Still doesn't justify his insane cost.


Well it does if he takes out an special character and his retinue or a titan.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1025221.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1025221.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
beef wrote:
Gwar! wrote:No saving throws, no Judge, no Jury, just removed as a casualty.

Still doesn't justify his insane cost.


Well it does if he takes out an special character and his retinue or a titan.
9 Times out of 10 they won't ever reach it. And considering he costs MORE than a whole extra 12 man BC unit, I'd rather take the extra 44 or so attacks and 9 wounds TYVM]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1025229.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1025229.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex IC so can he still direct his attacks at models in BTB and can an IC allocate his attacks against Lucas (as he is essentially a squad upgrade)>

Whats the point of his cloak unless he is the last guy left in his squad?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028714.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028714.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
beef wrote:Also he is not an IC so can he still direct his attacks at models in BTB and can an IC allocate his attacks against Lucas (as he is essentially a squad upgrade)>

Whats the point of his cloak unless he is the last guy left in his squad?
He is considered part of the squad, so you use the normal rules.

What his cloak does is prevent Snipers from getting him (Vindicare, Mind War etc etc). See my FAQ for a more detailed Description ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028717.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028717.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Njal stat line shows he has a 3+ save. He wears Runic Armor which gives a 2+ save.

Nice to see what falls through the cracks :(]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028909.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028909.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Old Man Ultramarine wrote:I found one today.

Njal stat line shows he has a 3+ save. He wears Runic Armor which gives a 2+ save.

Nice to see what falls through the cracks :(
Errrm... What?

He has a 2+ save... In all 3 Locations, Unit Entry, Summary and Army list.

Page 53: 2+
Page 82: 2+
Page 96: 2+]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028918.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028918.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028965.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028965.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
jab4962 wrote:Found one. It directs you to the Iron priest for the description of the chooser of the slain, when if clearly should refer you to the Rune Priest section
Ha, yes, nice one!

They even get the page number wrong!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028973.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1028973.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Gwar! wrote:
Old Man Ultramarine wrote:I found one today.

Njal stat line shows he has a 3+ save. He wears Runic Armor which gives a 2+ save.

Nice to see what falls through the cracks :(
Errrm... What?

He has a 2+ save... In all 3 Locations, Unit Entry, Summary and Army list.

Page 53: 2+
Page 82: 2+
Page 96: 2+


Holy crap, my buddy misquoted. He mentioned and I looked at save from 5 feet away. Should have looked at my codex before opening mouth. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029034.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029034.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Holy crap, my buddy misquoted. He mentioned and I looked at save from 5 feet away. Should have looked at my codex before opening mouth.
Rawr! Bad Old man Ultramarine who is only half the age of Old Space Wolves ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029039.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029039.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029046.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029046.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
jab4962 wrote:Another. On page 76, it shows a picture of a wolf scout with a a storm bolter, while you can't equip a wolf scout with a storm bolter.


Yeah, well I guess he's on a crusade with all those BT whirlwinds and dual CCW having dreadnoughts.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029103.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029103.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Wolf guard in an army led by Grimnar attached to long fangs, scouts and bikers score.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029232.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029232.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex SW Rhinos and Razorbacks CAN'T transport Terminators. In the fluff entry it states 10 model capacity for Rhinos and 6 for Razorbacks, but it does not exclude models in Terminator armor. Same for the army list entry. Don't know if this was just omitted or if the Space Wolves figured out how to fit a Terminator into a Rhino. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029240.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029240.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Darkness wrote:Canis Wolfborn does not move as cavalry.

Wolf guard in an army led by Grimnar attached to long fangs, scouts and bikers score.


Canis has the Cavalry unit type in his entry. So, huh?

Wolf Guard attached don't create scoring units, Wolf Guard "units" score.

What are you on?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029262.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029262.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
As for the wolf guard part I thinks it arguable.

Plus, whats with the insults? A simple correction is enough.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029273.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029273.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029277.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029277.page GMT Re:Irregularities in SW codex TDA's cant be in anything but a land raider or drop pod in the armour description.
Speaking of drop pods, Bjorn has a fear of flying? whats up with that?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029414.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029414.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
So there.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029484.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029484.page GMT Re:Irregularities in SW codex
Stygian Mole wrote:Says that TDA's cant be in anything but a land raider or drop pod in the armour description.
Speaking of drop pods, Bjorn has a fear of flying? whats up with that?


Ah, that would explain it since I only read the Runic Armor description there. And Bjorn has a fear of not seeing Russ again to know why he was left behind/to fight at his side again. Least that's what I took from his fluff blurb. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029546.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029546.page GMT Irregularities in SW codex
Thanatos73 wrote:I don't know if it's been mentioned elsewhere, if I just missed it but it is never stated that SW Rhinos and Razorbacks CAN'T transport Terminators. In the fluff entry it states 10 model capacity for Rhinos and 6 for Razorbacks, but it does not exclude models in Terminator armor. Same for the army list entry. Don't know if this was just omitted or if the Space Wolves figured out how to fit a Terminator into a Rhino.
Errrm, read the rules for TDA. It says it there.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029560.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/259615/1029560.page GMT