<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Starting Empire, Need advice"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Starting Empire, Need advice
1 captain on foot, BSB
1 Engineer with hocland long rifle
20 State troopers
20 Handgunners
1 Great Cannon
5 Outriders

I like great swords and am planing on running 20 of them with a hero of some sort seven wide.

I also think the War alter is wicked kool so Im gonna get one of them as well.

Knights are a must so the battlion box will add some of those along with more foot slogers. I intend to use detahcments, two of 10 halbreds for a unit of swordsmen and my great swords. I also like warrior priests and intend to have one mounted and one on foot. Im also planing on adding 2 volley guns, a unit of pistoliers, some casters, archers for scouting and weapon machine hunting, and another ten handgunners.

Any other tips would be greatly appreciated. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1080128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1080128.page GMT Starting Empire, Need advice bsb,warrior priest and a mage for 2k-2250 games.

Second cannon would be good insurance if you have spare special slots as you have more tangible threat to big monsters that way (lesser chance of totally failing to hit potential targets especially if you aim both at the same thing).

Pro-tip would be skipping the hero-level engineer altogether as he's pretty awful. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1080290.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1080290.page GMT Starting Empire, Need advice
If you can (enough rare slots and no other restrictions) it's worth a try.
Your idea for the infantry is solid, and warrior priests, well, sure!
I like the new War Altar and Arch Lector, it's a usefull unit for the Empire for morale and magic, but you put a lot of eggs in a single basket... take care of it.

The engineer... I never used them much, the re-roll for warmachines does not come cheap with him (40 odd points right?) and he's otherwise an expensive sniper.
Morale boosters and magical defense takes priority for Empire. Especially since leadershipp of characters leading units extend to the detachments (usefull for fighting against fear causing opponents for example)
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1080317.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1080317.page GMT Starting Empire, Need advice
Depending on your playing group, you may find you're playing towards something you may not find so much in a tourney setting.

I love Empire. For the points you have there I would run with:

Captain/19 State troops (your choice, but I prefer Swordsman). Full Command.

If you want the Engineer, put him with your cannon - no upgrades as you can't shot and use him for your cannon in the same turn. Hochland is nice, but not going to do much in 1k or less.

2 units of handgunners. Put them in a line of 10 and give them a marksman. He can take the repeater and give you 12 shots instead of 10 for 100pts.

Great Cannon x2 - Agree. Get another one.

Outriders are fragile, but again black powder is your friend as is fast cav and free re-form.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1080332.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1080332.page GMT Starting Empire, Need advice
As others have said, the Engineer isn't worth it. I agree with adding another Great Cannon as well.

Swordsmen are generally considered the best of the State Troops. I'd take a unit of those if you are going to include any of them. Knightly Orders are a very good alternative for your compulsory Core choices.

Helblaster Volley Guns are not that good at the moment. The only Rare choice that is worth it, is the Steam Tank. It's a very good unit, though people might get annoyed if you take the maximum amount of them (unless you play in a competitive environment).

Your Character set-up sounds like you want the Arch Lector on a War Altar, a Warrior Priest on horse, a Warrior Priest on foot and some casters. I don't know which size games you intend to play, but below 3000 points, you can only take 4 Characters, so you are going to have to make some decisions here. I'd advise a set-up like this: Arch Lector on War Altar, 2 or 3 level 2 Wizards.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1080444.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1080444.page GMT Starting Empire, Need advice
you going to give jacob a run for his money i bet. lol
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1081098.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1081098.page GMT Starting Empire, Need advice
So far your base looks pretty good. The Engineer isn't great and those points would be better invested in a Wizard with dispel scrolls. I haven't used Outriders but the thought of Fast Cav that can't move and shoot seems odd to me so I prefer Pistoliers. For detachments consider running them in squares of 3x3. Frankly they are there to remove the opponents rank bonus, not actually kill anything and the 9 man unit takes up less space in your line (trust me, it's hard setting up those detachments when your handgunners are competing for the space.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1081239.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1081239.page GMT Starting Empire, Need advice
Ozymandias wrote:Remember the basic tactics for Empire: Shoot your opponent to ribbons then charge what's left.

So far your base looks pretty good. The Engineer isn't great and those points would be better invested in a Wizard with dispel scrolls. I haven't used Outriders but the thought of Fast Cav that can't move and shoot seems odd to me so I prefer Pistoliers. For detachments consider running them in squares of 3x3. Frankly they are there to remove the opponents rank bonus, not actually kill anything and the 9 man unit takes up less space in your line (trust me, it's hard setting up those detachments when your handgunners are competing for the space.


2nd.

Warrior Priest allow you to take a unit of Flagellants as Core. Another option to run across the field. I'd keep the pistoliers back near your war-machines to discourage anything from "popping" in.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1081337.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1081337.page GMT Starting Empire, Need advice http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1082228.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/263258/1082228.page GMT Re:Starting Empire, Need advice
My outriders will do the same thing as my handgunners, sit back and shoot. Im thinking about running hochland long rifles in all my handgunner units and outriders, that is if that tactic works. If not Ill run repeaters instead.


If you're doing that, you do miss out on one huge thing the Outridders give you.... mobile firepower. They're kinda a Hellblaster gun you can actually reposition. As Fast Cav, they get 16" move, free reforms, and 360 shooting. Be willing to sacrifice turns of shooting with them to move them into positions where they can get off some seriously devistating volleys. It's kinda counter-intuitive. It took me a while to get used to them, but they do work a lot like the old Galloper Gun. You move them one turn... fire the next couple. Move them again. And then either move them to claim table quarters, to shoot at targets of opportunity. And, with 16" of movement, your opponent either has to send something equally as mobile against them, or direct magic at them... letting you focus your own defenses, traps, and counter-magic.

The Hockland rifle is nice on the Outriders, since the Champ has BS 5, but... it's knda pricey. The Repeater Pistol is pretty sweet though.

1 Engineer with hocland long rifle


Unfortunately... as he currently is, the Engineer just doesn't keep up with Empire Captains, Warrior Priests, and low-level Empire Wizards. As prevously said, you'd probably be better served with a scroll-caddy wizard, for some magic defense. The Warrior Priest gives you some LD, some magic protection, and... some weak magic offense.

If you do want to keep your engineer, I'd suggest dropping the long rifle. Give him a Repeater Pistol / Pistol, some light armor, and put him on armored horseback. Then attach him to your HellBlaster Gun to give it BS 4. If your opponent gets to close to the gun, your engineer can make a sacrificial charge.

detachments... two of 10 halbred


Have to disagree here. No matter how to calculate it, Empire Halberdiers just blow. If you want detachments, go for 3x3 blocks of Free Company (cheap) or Swordsmen (survivability). Or, get some 8-strong detachments of Handgunners. We just don't have the skill / armor / special abilities with the pole-axe to make it ever useful. Detachments aren't really meant to cause wounds. They're meant for a +1 CR due to flanking, and denying the enemy up to 3 CR since they will no longer get their rank bonus. They're also sometimes meant to give you +1 CR from outnumbering. Hence the Swordsmen or Free Companies. Swordsmen are survivable enough to have US 5 to count as flanking, and Free Companies are just dirt-cheap.

Be advised, experienced players usually charge detachments, in order to overrun into Parent companies.

rchers for scouting and weapon machine hunting,


Huntsmen are decent at Scouting, but don't expect them to survive past turn 2. Their best targets are either zero-armor save stuff, such as War Machine Crews and Wizards, or high-point-cost, one-wound models... even if said model has a 0+ save. Huntsmen are cheap enough that if they can plink away a single one of those guys, usually pays for the whole unit. And, most high-armor-save-but-one-wound-guys tend to be in heavy cav units. If you reduce a knight unit by 1 model, that can be enough to make that knight unit less effective in combat, giving your line-infantry a much better chance to survive and win agianst enemy charges.

Also, if your Huntsmen survive till end game, don't forget they can run 8" to contest table quarters or even move into enemy deployment zones for additional VP collections.

I like great swords and am planing on running 20 of them with a hero of some sort seven wide.


Greatswords are pretty nice. Relatively cheap, STR 5, LD 8 Stubborn, and a decent armor save and WS... but they are still just humans. Their biggest disadvantage is that they compete for space with Cannon, Mortars, Pistoliers and Outriders. And, they're foot infantry (check some of the other discussions about problems with elite-foot infantry).

I'd suggest a unit of maybe 12 instead of 20. Extra Greatswords just give you rank bonuses and ablitive, as they aren't actually attacking. A unit 6-wide gives you 7 attacks (due to the Champion having 2), which'll usually mean 3 - 5 hits. 6-wide also makes for a more, mobile unit. Greatswords really don't need a hero-type guy with them, as LD 8 Stubborn is pretty reliable.

Im also planing on adding 2 volley guns


Be adivsed, the Hellbaster gun isn't unreliable... it's unpredictable. While, yes, you can roll a Misfire up to three times each time you use the Hellblaster gun... a Misfire roll isn't always catastropic. The most-common Misfire event is a jam event that just stops the Hellblaster completely at that point. Its other big disadvantage is that you get "Shots" from it... not hits. So, you can get 2, 4, 6, 8, or 10 shots per barrel. I don't remember if the Helbaster counts as "Multi-Shot" in terms of BS penalties, but you do apply any other bonus/penalty... long range, large, cover, and any spell-penalty-effects. Anyway, even on a "Good" turn, where none of the barrels Misfire, you can still get an unimpressive 6 shots.

So... when you shoot with it, it is best to shoot the Hellblaster gun at targets 12" or less, where you at least don't get the long-range BS penalty. And... sometimes it actually is useful to not shoot the Hellblaster gun, and move it 4" to get a better angle of shots on the following turns.

Its hugest advantage is that it does not compete for space with Cannon and Mortar. But being unpredictable means you have to be willing to accept poor-showings as common. Each barrel is its own event, and can be anything from freaking awesome, to freaking catastrophic. Therein lies the challenge. It is often best used as a psychology weapon, and as an area denier.

20 Handgunners


For your Handgunners, at low-points games, go for two, 10-man units with Musician.

At larger point games, you can get a Champion. I would not give the game a Multi-musket. Why? Because you're actually shooting worse. The mutli-musket gives a -1 to BS skill when you shoot it more than once in a turn. So, yes, while the Champ would get 3 shots... he's still hitting at a 5 or 6. You'd be better spent just getting two more Handgunners, upping the unit size to 12, giving you more ablative wounds.

I would suggest one of these two: HLR. 1) It gives you a "buried" guy who can snipe at high-cost, one-wound models. Or 2) a Brace of Pistols. The Pistols are a bit counter-intuitive, as they lower the max damage you can do at long range. But, what it does gives you is a bit of mobility... you can still move 4", and shoot the Brace of Pistols. The Pistols have no range/movement penalty. You can also counter-charge-fire with the Brace of Pistols. And, it'll eliminate long-range penalties for long-distance charges, as you wait for all your models to get in range before firing.

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