Latest posts for the thread "Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz"

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

thunderingjove — GMT

Consider: Would a unit of Flash Gitz be more viable without upgrades? Most criticism centers on Flash Gitz great cost, but the base cost is only twenty-five points: i.e., a standard nob with heavy armor, which is what Flash Gitz are, right? (Nob + 'Eavy Armor = 25 points.)

A mob of six would cost 150 points, of which two dakka guns fired in six will hit a tank (for an additional 30 ponts, four for six models will roll to hit), and perhaps cripple it: no too bad for wacky ork tech. (Shooting heavy infantry seems unwise, because they are many, and orks will statistically hit few.) After firing a round or two at tanks, the Flash Git unit will then act like nobz with middling armor protection and a stat-line assault profile (seeing as they wield a two-handed weapon). Flash Gitz, following this line of reasoning, won't be great battle unit; you won't want them attacking elites, but they'll be more than a match for most standard troop selections (ideally with light armor), or opponents already engaged. So, the tactic would be: shot tanks, then charge infantry.

In short, my question for debate is this: Are Flash Gitz worth wild if you treat them as 'Eavy Nobz that MIGHT kill tanks?

Paul Cornelius
Thundering Jove

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

BeRzErKeR — GMT

thunderingjove wrote:Consider: Would a unit of Flash Gitz be more viable without upgrades? Most criticism centers on Flash Gitz great cost, but the base cost is only twenty-five points: i.e., a standard nob with heavy armor, which is what Flash Gitz are, right? (Nob + 'Eavy Armor = 25 points.)

A mob of six would cost 150 points, of which two dakka guns fired in six will hit a tank (for an additional 30 ponts, four for six models will roll to hit), and perhaps cripple it: no too bad for wacky ork tech. (Shooting heavy infantry seems unwise, because they are many, and orks will statistically hit few.) After firing a round or two at tanks, the Flash Git unit will then act like nobz with middling armor protection and a stat-line assault profile (seeing as they wield a two-handed weapon). Flash Gitz, following this line of reasoning, won't be great battle unit; you won't want them attacking elites, but they'll be more than a match for most standard troop selections (ideally with light armor), or opponents already engaged. So, the tactic would be: shot tanks, then charge infantry.

In short, my question for debate is this: Are Flash Gitz worth wild if you treat them as 'Eavy Nobz that MIGHT kill tanks?

Paul Cornelius
Thundering Jove

I'm not sure what you mean with the whole "shoot at tanks" thing. The weapons of Flash Gitz are S5; that's too low to even have a chance at glancing AV 12, meaning Gitz are essentially useless against all but the lightest vehicles. The only other option then is to attack infantry; and as you note, Gitz generate far too few shots to seriously threaten heavy infantry.

The problem with Gitz is that Orks have plenty of other options that do better at anything you care to name. Want to kill vehicles? Take Lootas and Tankbustas. Want to kill infantry? Take boyz and Killa Kanz. Want to rock in assault? Take Nobz or Meganobz. Want to out-shoot somebody? Once again, take Lootas. Flash Gitz don't excel at anything.

Flash Gitz without upgrades fall into a little pocket of uselessness; they can do everything, but only badly. And if you give them upgrades, they rapidly become ridiculously overpriced. A Flash Gitz mob can be very scary; 9 assault 2 S6 24" AP d6-1 weapons carried by models with a 4+ armor save, FNP and two wounds each sounds great on paper. The problem is that those models cost 45 points apiece, except for the Painboy which costs 50, while they are entirely exposed to enemy shooting. And they are STILL outshot by Lootas, which cost a third of their points!

As to assault; Using Flash Gitz in assault is just about the least efficient thing you can do with your points short of taking Zzap Gunz. If your shooting is having an effect, that means you've tooled up their guns, which means you're spending 40 points per model. Taking them into assault wastes all those points. It's like keeping your Meganobz out of assault so you can take advantage of their twin-linked shootas; a ridiculous waste of points.

Re:Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

KingCracker — GMT

Id have to agree on this. Flash Gitz are one of those units you make just for fun. You paint them up all nice and pretty, and make sure they become a conversation piece of your army. Maybe they will find their way into a random fun list just to mix things up a bit. But if your trying to use them for anything OTHER then a fun quick game, your nuts.
They are WAY to costly for what they do. Take a shoota boyz squad at the same cost point, and they will be FAR better at killing then a Flash gitz unit. They really do sound awesome on paper, and sure you can convince yourself "BUT THEY ARE NOBZ WITH AWESOME GUNZ!!" all day long. But unless your rolls are stellar, and your opponents crappy, they will make you regret it everytime.

So like I said, go ahead and make a unit, they always look cool, but there isnt a unit in the Ork dex, that cant do what you want the gitz to do, better and cheaper

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Nurglitch — GMT

Take them and make sure that you take a Painboy, and two or even three of the upgrades. In particular have them hunt heavy infantry and light vehicles. With a R24" S6 APD6 Assault 2 gun and ammo runts it doesn't really matter if they have BS5 because the S, AP, A, Ammo Runt, and Gitfindas will make up for them and then some.

Against Space Marines they'll wound on 2+ (S6 v T4), roll AP1-3 50% of the time (66% of the time if you take the Blasta upgrade), and be able to shoot and close, and deal with those obnoxious Land Speeders and other light vehicles. They don't need stellar rolls.

Edit: Oops, was thinking of Mega Armoured Nobz.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Tri — GMT

Nurglitch wrote: doesn't really matter if they have BS5

Nurglitch if they were BS5 i think every one would take them.

Are they use able? No ... they can't take a transport, they're BS2 and they only get one shot each at 25pts.

IF GW had just given them BS3 or TL then they'd be worth the hassle

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

LeperMessiah — GMT

Trust me, I've tried to justify Flash Gitz many times. Upgrading them slightly (S6, Assault 2 with 24" range) is a sexy gun, but it just mathhammers very poorly against Lootas or even Shoota boyz. Gitz could be decent anti-Marine shooters, but it's not very reliable given their floating AP. There's just nothing a Gitz mob can do that Lootas or Shootas can't do better, on a point for point basis. If they were BS3, 15 points, or something that might change the argument, but sadly no. But fluff-wise, I do enjoy them and will probably make a unit for non-competitive dakka lists because, well, AoBR nobz are dirt cheap conversions so why not?

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Nurglitch — GMT

Yes, BS2 (thinking 5+...).

Flash Gitz can move, shoot, and then assault, something that Lootas cannot do. They can assault with S5 I4 A3+1 each. They can have 'Eavy Armour, Cybork Bodies, Feel No Pain, and W2. They have some chance of denying armour saves to things with Sv3-. Lootas have none of these things. It's almost as if they're in different parts of the Force Organization Chart...

Shootas? Well, you're going to take 6x Boyz mobs anyways, so it's not like you have to choose between Flash Gitz and Boyz.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Zio — GMT

What they really needed, was to NOT be turned into nobz. They were great in the last 'dex when they were BOYZ with cool, super upgrady gunz. Not so much for nobz who are inherently CC experts to be given the super gunz... kinda' dumb actually. imagine if gitz were just a 24" S5 APd6 ass2 version of lootas! That'd be AWESOME!

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Tri — GMT

Zio wrote:What they really needed, was to NOT be turned into nobz. They were great in the last 'dex when they were BOYZ with cool, super upgrady gunz. Not so much for nobz who are inherently CC experts to be given the super gunz... kinda' dumb actually. imagine if gitz were just a 24" S5 APd6 ass2 version of lootas! That'd be AWESOME!

15points each squad size 5-15 ... yep worth taking. Still should have a transport option.

Re:Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

despoiler52 — GMT

You can put them in a BW, it just takes up a HS slot.

Re:Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Tri — GMT

despoiler52 wrote:You can put them in a BW, it just takes up a HS slot.

That's nice but really they need the option of a dedicated truck or battlewagon.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Zio — GMT

I wouldn't personally give them the transport option.
I do appreciate the need for one, though the most similar units (ie; lootas & burnas) have set something of a precident. I think they sould be elite as well.

Also, how 'bout this:

Elite - 6 points - Flash Gitz

Basic ork boy statline (no 'eavy armour)
With gitfinda', snazzgun & normal nob options.

Must buy 1 of the following;
More Dakka - 4 pts.
Shootier - 3 pts.
Blasta - 2 pts.

This way they'd be 15 pts. fully upgraded, aren't heavy support for no reason and would be relatively common in many lists without being overpowered. (Please note, this is basically what they were in the old codex, before, for some reason, they all became nobz).

Re:Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Kveldulv — GMT

Wouldn't it be fun to ask Phil Kelly how he thought players were going to use flash gitz, looted wagons and shock attak gunz?

I mean since the rest of the codex is so great (multiple viable builds, the goal every codex should aim for...) I'd like to hear him justify 'em.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Nurglitch — GMT

That wouldn't be fair, because so long as he works for GW he can't publicly admit what he thinks of the majority of players. But I don't work for GW, and if I were him I'd be cheered by the thought that most players weren't trying to jam Flash Git models up their own bottoms.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Zio — GMT

He did a great job all and all. The SAG is great fun, maybe not tournement worthy, and the looted wagon is tourney useless 'cause it's so sketchy unreliable, but EVERYTHING else in the codex is great. That's really saying something (especially for GW!) Ha ha ha!

Re:Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Kveldulv — GMT

@Nurglitch: What does that even mean?

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Nurglitch — GMT

Kveldulv:

Have an adult explain it to you.

Re:Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Kveldulv — GMT

Because a squid can't?

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

QuietOrkmi — GMT

The true Genius that is Flashgitz is that you can take an additional 30 Nobz... IF you are running a true Horde list you will run only infantry...

Imagine the look on your opponent's face when he sees...

2 Big Meks with KFFS, 6 mobz of 30 boyz, 30 Nobz, 3 Mobz of 20 Storm Boyz, and 30 more nobz armed with dakka gunz...

Thats 302 Models!!!! let them have their templates... For they will need to deal 373 wounds before we hit their lines and give them a proper krumpin...

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Tri — GMT

QuietOrkmi wrote:The true Genius that is Flashgitz is that you can take an additional 30 Nobz... IF you are running a true Horde list you will run only infantry...

Imagine the look on your opponent's face when he sees...

2 Big Meks with KFFS, 6 mobz of 30 boyz, 30 Nobz, 3 Mobz of 20 Storm Boyz, and 30 more nobz armed with dakka gunz...

Thats 302 Models!!!! let them have their templates... For they will need to deal 373 wounds before we hit their lines and give them a proper krumpin...

... Mine would be thank god he took flash gits. Yes you need str8+ AP2 weapons to effectively kill Nobs, my list has that. Even if you'd just taken looted wagons as a screen you'd do better.

And i'd really feel for you if you went up against an IG player.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

JD21290 — GMT

2 Big Meks with KFFS, 6 mobz of 30 boyz, 30 Nobz, 3 Mobz of 20 Storm Boyz, and 30 more nobz armed with dakka gunz...

So thats what, just under 3.5k points without upgrades?
So, a guard army can take 9 russ's for heavy, plus enough firepower to scare the gak out of anyone for those points.
Those 9 templates alone will be taking out 2-3 mobs per turn.
and the KFF meks wont cover alot.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

schadenfreude — GMT

Zio wrote:I wouldn't personally give them the transport option.
I do appreciate the need for one, though the most similar units (ie; lootas & burnas) have set something of a precident. I think they sould be elite as well.

Also, how 'bout this:

Elite - 6 points - Flash Gitz

Basic ork boy statline (no 'eavy armour)
With gitfinda', snazzgun & normal nob options.

Must buy 1 of the following;
More Dakka - 4 pts.
Shootier - 3 pts.
Blasta - 2 pts.

This way they'd be 15 pts. fully upgraded, aren't heavy support for no reason and would be relatively common in many lists without being overpowered. (Please note, this is basically what they were in the old codex, before, for some reason, they all became nobz).

A snazzgun would be even more effective in the hands of a BS3 gretchin than a ork boy, but that's just not the ork way. Giving a snazzgun to a ork boy also is just not the ork way. Before the battle a Nob would just take the snazzgun from the boy, and if the boy protested the Nob would just take the snazzgun from the boy along with his teef. If a boy is vicious enough to defend himself from nobs the boy would quickly grow to be the size of a nob, and would then be a nob. Flash gits will always be nobs from now on, and flash bit boyz are a relic of the past when Orks stat lines were that of hummies with +1T and -1I

Flash gits are expensive because they are shooty nobs. They are STR5 I4 with 4 attacks with furious charge, and once in CC they have eavy armor, feel no pain, and access to 5 point cybork bodies. They are built to shoot with the snazzguns followed by an assault. It takes the spot of 2 heavy support slots but it seems the best way to use flash gits would be to put them in a battlewagon that has a killcannon, deffroller, and red paint job. Move forward 7" a turn and every flash git on board can fire every turn until it gets close enough for the flash gits to assault.

On another note the 3 ammo runts are worth it because they can be used on turns when the AP roll comes up low and the flash gits are shooting at a high value unit.

The only problem with flash gits is they do everything well, and doing everything well is F'n expensive. They have lots of dakka, nob assault stats, and heavy defense with eavy armor + feel no pain + cybork bodies. Doing everything well makes them expensive so dedicated shooting units like lootas give dakka cheaper on a point for point basis, and dedicated CC units like meganobs are better at CC on a point for point basis.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

BeRzErKeR — GMT

schadenfreude wrote:

The only problem with flash gits is they do everything well, and doing everything well is F'n expensive. They have lots of dakka, nob assault stats, and heavy defense with eavy armor + feel no pain + cybork bodies. Doing everything well makes them expensive so dedicated shooting units like lootas give dakka cheaper on a point for point basis, and dedicated CC units like meganobs are better at CC on a point for point basis.

Exactly. This is a version of Jack-of-all-Trades syndrome, where a unit does everything middling and nothing well. In this case, Gitz do everything well, but not well enough to justify their cost.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

QuietOrkmi — GMT

300 points is the most I would spend on one unit in an Ork Army... so more dakka because you double the amount of potential wounds for 5 points

You could say that 300 points could be spent on 30 shoota boyz with 'Eavy Armor... The only problem is you need a spare Troop choice...

Elite choices are often filled up by Either Nobz guarding warbosses and 2 units of lootas...

The Idea is that They could guard Big Meks, do something while moving and shooting... with no more slots, flash gitz become the best choice compared to nothing.

10 Flash Gitz with more dakka < 30 'Ard Shoota boyz
10 Flash Gitz with more dakka < 10 Nobz with 'Eavy Armor, Waaagh! Banner, Bosspole, painboy
10 Flash Gitz with more dakka > Both if you have 0 elite and troop choices left to spend...

Math Hammered out the dakkaguns turn the following saves into...

6+ 00 out of 18 Save instead of 03 out of 18 Save
5+ 01 out of 18 Save instead of 06 out of 18 Save
4+ 03 out of 18 Save instead of 09 out of 18 Save
3+ 06 out of 18 Save instead of 12 out of 18 Save
2+ 10 out of 18 Save instead of 15 out of 18 Save

I also like the Git Findas because you can be 13" away from your opponent without being ridiculously good at eyeballing distance...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
300 points is the most I would spend on one unit in an Ork Army... so more dakka because you double the amount of potential wounds for 5 points

You could say that 300 points could be spent on 30 shoota boyz with 'Eavy Armor... The only problem is you need a spare Troop choice...

Elite choices are often filled up by Either Nobz guarding warbosses and 2 units of lootas...

The Idea is that They could guard Big Meks, do something while moving and shooting... with no more slots, flash gitz become the best choice compared to nothing.

10 Flash Gitz with more dakka < 30 'Ard Shoota boyz
10 Flash Gitz with more dakka < 10 Nobz with 'Eavy Armor, Waaagh! Banner, Bosspole, painboy
10 Flash Gitz with more dakka > Both if you have 0 elite and troop choices left to spend...

Math Hammered out the dakkaguns turn the following saves into...

6+ 00 out of 18 Save instead of 03 out of 18 Save
5+ 01 out of 18 Save instead of 06 out of 18 Save
4+ 03 out of 18 Save instead of 09 out of 18 Save
3+ 06 out of 18 Save instead of 12 out of 18 Save
2+ 10 out of 18 Save instead of 15 out of 18 Save

I also like the Git Findas because you can be 13" away from your opponent without being ridiculously good at eyeballing distance...

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Steelmage99 — GMT

In the spirit of this thread, could someone explain the Gitfinda and its uses for me?

It seems to me that most of the time (9/10), I will try to reach an enemy unit and shoot the poo out of it.
As the Snazzgun has a range 24", I find that the Gitfinda is of no help at all. I can easily eyeball a distance less than 24" and more than 12", as should others. It is quite a big rangeband we are talking about here and as the Snazzgun isn't Rapid Fire, there really isn't any need for me to be right on the edge of the 12" mark (allowing an enemy assault should my dice hate me).
So the Gitfinda either confirms that I was indeed within range or it tells me that I failed. How much I failed by is irrelevant. If I didn't have the Gitfinda, the ruler would tell me how far off the mark I was anyway.
Sure it might allow me to select another target, but how often is that really relevant/possible?

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

wuestenfux — GMT

Flash Gitz would be a nasty surprise for the enemy.
Take 3x 10 Gitz mounted in Battlewagonz and fill the rest with Boyz in Trukkz.
The Battlewagonz start in front while the Trukkz are hidden behind.
If the Battlewagonz go down who cares, the Gitz should survive.
Then the Trukkz could take on the enemy while the Gitz approach him shooting the crap out of him.

Sounds like an Orkish tactics.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

QuietOrkmi — GMT

I use it by place my flashgitz behind something that can assault...

The Gitfinda specifically allows you to pre-measure... thus you can pre-measure the distance between the gitfinda and anything!

If A -> C is 43" and A -> B is 34" that means that your unit of Orks need to run if they feel like assaulting... likewise you can use the A -> C method to determine if you need to run out of someone's 12" assault range...

The difference between Chess and 40K is Chess you have perfect information, 40k you do not... The Gitfinda can be a boon to someone who wants to pull off some tactics with a Fast army like speed freaks...

After all If you are spending 300 points on a BS 2 shooting unit, I think that is how gitfindas were meant to be used.

When all is said and done, at least you can avoid wasting a turn firing something just centimeters out of range.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Tri — GMT

wuestenfux wrote:Flash Gitz would be a nasty surprise for the enemy.
Take 3x 10 Gitz mounted in Battlewagonz and fill the rest with Boyz in Trukkz.
The Battlewagonz start in front while the Trukkz are hidden behind.
If the Battlewagonz go down who cares, the Gitz should survive.
Then the Trukkz could take on the enemy while the Gitz approach him shooting the crap out of him.

Sounds like an Orkish tactics.

Yep that would be good but its a shame theres not way of take them and a battle wagon out side of apocalypse.

Cheap Flash Gitz: 'Eavy Nobz with Dakka Gunz

Steelmage99 — GMT

Except if you take three min-sized Nobsquads, buy dedicated transport BWsang give em to the Gits.

But I agree.....no good way.