Sanctjud wrote:Well there is a big Con with GKGM w/ TH/SS termies:
GKGM loses fearless.
TH/SS can't use ATSKNF, Nor can they use Combat Tactics.
So lose/lose there for some special rules.

I think I would be more scared of the TH/SS...
Wounding my bikers on 2's is much better than just 3's

whitedragon wrote:Grey Knight Terminators can swap their NF weapons for a thunder hammer if they choose, so why use Space Marine termies at all?

Grey Templar wrote:@ sancjud: why do you say the GKGM loses fearlessness ALL Grey Knights are totally fearless(its one of the benifits of being awsome shiny silver space marines with super powers)

Grey Knights don't have ATSKNF or combat tactics, nor do we need them.

GK terminators have the same number of attacks whether they have NFWs or Thunder hammers(true grit only applies to GKs in power armor)

@ ageofegos: i am not sure if the grand master should take an additional weapon. he would lose his storm bolter and why take a power weapon when you could take a psycannon

Grey Knights are a shooting army(read the article section on dakka) i play just like that article and havn't lost a game since i changed tactics.

Shrouding is somthing to base our whole stratedgy around. its somthing that works against any enemy and the average on 3D6 times 3 is 30" so we can use psycannons, lascannons, and heavy bolters at maximum range while the enemies long range shooting is totally nerfed.

Don't belive me, try it out.

The normal GK termies are more scarier IMO. Str6 will wound most infantry models on a 2+ already, Nobs are T4 IIRC so will be wounded on 2+ not 3+ like you say and are power weapons coming from the Terminators.

There is a FAQ saying you can use newer rules (like the 3+ invuln SS) as long as its within reason and you inform your opponent who can refuse if he dosn't think its within reason. He can't refuse just because he wants to be a jerk and kill your termies easier.

Grey Templar wrote:the GKGM is Fearless, he grants any squad he joins fearless. they won't need ATSKNF

the Nob bikers and SM bikers will have the same toughness, 5. i see what you mean about wounding on 3s, but that is still pretty Awsome. i wouldn't take TH/SSs just so i would wound on 2s instead of 3s


Tournements actually will allow the 3++ save for GK termies, because they allow it for Black Templars they can't deny GKs. anyone who won't allow you the 3++ probably is such a poor player that he needs advantages against GKs. i certantly won't play TFG

the GKGM is Fearless, he grants any squad he joins fearless.

Grey Templar wrote:
I guess i got the rules for fearless wrong, that would mean he follows ATSKNF as the unit has it. the unit would fall back with the GM inside as normal.

Grey Templar wrote:I agree: NFW wins due to inititive and the fact it already wounds most units on 2+ anyway making the thunder hammers more of a liability then a bonus. against a heavy mechanized list it changes, but NFWs can penetrate many vehicles too

Green Blow Fly wrote:If you are mostly concerned about nob bikers then thunderhammers are the best bet. Remember the nobz will most likely háve a Waaagh banner so you are hitting them on 4+ not 3+. If you can get the GKGM in b2b with the warboss mostly likely you'll NFW him dead.

G