http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1346821.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1346821.page GMT *do you have other elements to kick MEQ out of their can to flame them?
*do you have lash or two?
*do you mech up to have elements to tank shock stuff into nice clusters?

I think they are decent when role oriented NM squads work at getting a nice position for the template, but outside Lash, it's not maximize most of the time.

Like the NM, it occupies a niche... if you can exploit it, it will work wonders, if not, it's 'meh'. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1347060.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1347060.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1347459.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1347459.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1347711.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1347711.page GMT AP 3 flamer, right? i use a libby with avenger (S5 AP 3 flamer) in my bikearmy, and he consistantly kicks ass. Opponents have to get out of their transport some time (you shoot them out, or they go out to shoot/assault you), and with his mobility, the libby is usually there to punish them for it. Noise marines don't have the same type of mobility, you have to force them out of their transport before you get out, but if I was to use noise marines, I would certainly take the siren. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1347818.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1347818.page GMT mostly because I have been on the recieving end of Hot White noise a few times Words hurt....alot

Kinda reminds me of C&C3 Tibierium wars and the Scrin's vulnerability to sound.

I think they are real effective at what they do. CSM have plenty of options to get marines out of their cans and maximizing the number of models under the template isn't a big issue when you wound on 3s and don't grant armor saves ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1347828.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1347828.page GMT
You have to understand that the method of delivery is a huge deal.
The biker is nice because he has the turbo then the move.
The NM only have the rhino that is limited to at most a 12" move. If they want to keep safe and shoot out, the range is limited to a 6" move from the rhino.
The longest range they can shoot something is moving 12" in the rhino, then 2" disembark, 1" base, then flamer, but that would mean they would be exposed, which (lets face it) an unhealthy thing when you have access to a rhino.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1348007.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1348007.page GMT NM's didn't have the same type of mobility. 15" is still decent though, and for 15pts, I would always take it if I wanted to field NM's. Let's face it, if it was a normal weapon option for squads, you would always grab that super-heavy flamer. IG pay 20pts for a heavy flamer, 15pts for such a potent weapon is very good (IF you are going to use NM's anyways)

You usually have to get out of your transport at some point anyway, you won't really kill much if you just drive 6" and shoot two guys out of the hatch the entire game. (and your rhino probably won't last the entire game too) IMO, it is better to be able to seriously decimate a squad when you decide to commit, than to save those 15 pts and loose so much firepower. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1349000.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1349000.page GMT Its absolutely devastating against MEQ.
My EC army never goes out with 2 NM units (incl. AC with doom siren) in Rhinos and 2 winged lash Princes. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1349174.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1349174.page GMT NM squad works well when supported by a mechanized PM or Vanilla squad that has 2 melta guns. The Vanilla or PM squad pops transports, and a lash whip can bundle up targets before getting nailed with a SB.

Loyalists marines should never buy assault marines plasma pistols on squads they are thinking of deep striking. Deep striking and blasting away with a few plasma gun shots is just begging to have a sonic blaster template, defiler battle cannon, or plasma cannon template land right on top of clustered assault marines.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1349293.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1349293.page GMT WH. But, since I play alot of SM and Eldar, I find them very valuable.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1349495.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1349495.page GMT ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1358128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1358128.page GMT When one depends on something to occur in a particular order, it's asking to be upset. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1358303.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1358303.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1365379.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/280037/1365379.page GMT