<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Eager to start Eldar

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Eager to start Eldar - what to get?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Eager to start Eldar - what to get?
I've been wanting to play with an army with a lot of diverse options and weapons, vehicles, and unit types. Eldar seems to be the way to go. I play Tyranids as my prime army, and my instincts are telling me to grab the best CC units in the Eldar army and lump them into the enemy army -- but I think this is definitely the wrong way to go. I want to use Farseers and their powers, I want to be able to out-maneuver my enemy, and I want to shoot the hell out of them at the same time.

I've read the codex front to back, and I have 200 pounds ( $360-80 AUD ) to spend on pieces to be sent over from England, seeing as it's SO much cheaper. So, I need your opinions. Do Eldar only work with one style of army? I don't want to be competitive, I just want a nice, solid 1250 pt list. The last thing I want to hear is 'order wave serpents lulz'... mech isn't the reason I want to play Eldar - though I wouldn't mind two serpents, maybe three.

What are the nice CC units?

What are the good shooting units?

Some interesting / fun combinations of wargear?

If you can help me, thank you so much in advance

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399009.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399009.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get? CC units.

Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, War Walkers, Fire Prisms and Falcons are the more effective shooting units.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399207.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399207.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get?
All prices from Maelstrom.co.uk

45 Pounds x 2 = 2 Battleforces - You now have 2 Wave Serpents, 10 Dire Avengers, 20 Guardians with platforms and 2 War Walkers. Not a bad start.

16 pounds = 10 Avengers to round out the troops.

16 pounds =I would then probably invest in a Farseer and 3 Warlock Bodyguards.

40 pounds = A unit of Fire Dragons and Falcon for extra AT work, plus it rounds out your capabilities nicely.

22.5 Pounds = A Wraithlord (cause they look cool)

16 pounds = Harlequins because they are fun, plus you can throw them in a transport for extra win if you like.

Just around 200 pounds exactly.

You can pick and choose, but the Eldar battleforces are definately value. And with this army, you have 1HQ, 4 Troops, 3 grav tanks, 3 walkers, 1 AT and one CC force.

Should be close to 1200 points there, if you spend it right.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399622.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399622.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399652.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get?

willydstyle wrote:The battleforce is a poor choice because Guardian Defenders are trash. They're almost always better replaced by dire avengers.

Perhaps - but for the cost you are paying, the guardians are basically for free - 22.50 for the Wave Serpent, 8 pounds for the half squad of avengers, 16 pounds for the War Walker. So the guardians are basically free vs the cost of stand alone models. Plus, if he wants to get some footsloggers for an Avater/Eldrad combo eventually, then Guardians are quite decent, especially if mixed in with Storm Guardian parts.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399682.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399682.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get?

willydstyle wrote:Harlequins and jetbike warlocks are the effective CC units.

Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, War Walkers, Fire Prisms and Falcons are the more effective shooting units.

Make sure you get enough transports first as mechdar is the easiest Eldar army to master and just build from there. I find Fire Dragons the real only essential unit for Eldar though. Do not forget Warp Spiders as well they are a ton of fun!

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399989.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1399989.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get?
I will consider your proposal well, lords2001, it seems to have real value in there. Recently the store I was buying from online had to restrict its deliveries to the UK only, and being Aussie, I felt fairly left out. Maelstrom has a good reputation, I take it?

I think the list you've provided for me is very nice, but... I've heard that Fire Dragons were very much one-trick ponies in the respect that they fly around in a WS, disembark, shoot the hell out of a tank or something, then get shot to death, or assaulted. What's your opinion?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1400502.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1400502.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get?
You can use Guardians as defenders, or Storm Guardians, no one is really going to care all that much. Alternatively, you cannot use Storm Guardian models as Defender models, if it really matters to your opponent. You don't get the gun platform marker, and your special weapon Guardians will have a hard time standing out of the pack.

For a mech force (tanks), I would suggest grabbing 3 Wave serpents, 2 squads of Dire avengers (most opponents will let you use Guardian models if you want, they are basically the same thing), HQ of your choice (probably a Farseer model), and either a large squad (8-10) of Striking scorpions or a squad (6) of Fire dragons. Add in a Fire prism, and will have a pretty decent 1000-1250 point army.

For a footslogging force, I would recommend getting 3-4 squads of Guardians, a Farseer, Avatar, a squad of Harlequins or Striking Scorpions, and 3 Wraithlords.

Fire Dragons do tend to die right after shooting, but they usually do serious damage to whatever they are shooting at. You can take a HF-Exarch, and the squad can hunt down bikes and such. They are not the most flexible unit, but you can't really ask an aspect warrior to be much more so. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1400586.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1400586.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get?

Wrexasaur wrote:I am not a big fan of most of the sets, but they will give you decent options overall. It would be better if you knew what type of list you wanted, mech vs. footslogging basically. It feels like I would be trying to build two armies at once if I were to get the battleforce set.

You can use Guardians as defenders, or Storm Guardians, no one is really going to care all that much. Alternatively, you cannot use Storm Guardian models as Defender models, if it really matters to your opponent. You don't get the gun platform marker, and your special weapon Guardians will have a hard time standing out of the pack.

For a mech force (tanks), I would suggest grabbing 3 Wave serpents, 2 squads of Dire avengers (most opponents will let you use Guardian models if you want, they are basically the same thing), HQ of your choice (probably a Farseer model), and either a large squad (8-10) of Striking scorpions or a squad (6) of Fire dragons. Add in a Fire prism, and will have a pretty decent 1000-1250 point army.

For a footslogging force, I would recommend getting 3-4 squads of Guardians, a Farseer, Avatar, a squad of Harlequins or Striking Scorpions, and 3 Wraithlords.

Fire Dragons do tend to die right after shooting, but they usually do serious damage to whatever they are shooting at. You can take a HF-Exarch, and the squad can hunt down bikes and such. They are not the most flexible unit, but you can't really ask an aspect warrior to be much more so.

Wow, thanks

I'm really looking forward to using some vehicles, after playing Tyranids. I guess I want to go mechanized Eldar. Thanks a lot for the advice, I'll run over my codex and cash supplies, see if I can't shave a few more dollars off to run with some mechdar. Thank you all for the help, if you have more advice to give for running a mechanized Eldar force, I'd be happy to listen.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1400702.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1400702.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get? Farseer
2x 10 Dire Anvengers
2 Serpents.

Expansion to 1000 pts:
2x 6 Fire Dragons
2 Serpents
Fire Prism.

Expansion to 1500 pts:
6 Pathfinders
2x Fire Prism

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1401261.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1401261.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get?

SDasher wrote:Wow, thanks

No problem mate.

With 300$, and a decent discount, you should be able to easily put together a 1500-1750 point mech army.

There are 3-5 specific Mechdar 'styles'. These different armies can be seen as generically shooty, or close-combat.

Shooty-
Dire avenger lists are usually pretty effective. Your core army will include at least one Farseer (with Doom), and 3 squads of DA*(1). Get 3 tanks, and stick them inside*(2). Gear two of the DA squads for shooty, and one for CC. Shooty will include an Exarch w/ Bladestorm + Dual S. Cats (4, BS5 S4 shots is pretty awesome). CC will include an Exarch w/ Defend + S. Shield/PW(Defensive, great against things with PW/PK) -or- Pistol/D. Sword (Offensive, sword can prove very useful against ICs, though unreliable in general)*(3). Back this up with a squad or two of FD (6 in a squad is more than enough), and a squad of Striking Scorpions*(4) if you like. 2 Fire Prisms for heavy support, will put you solidly within 1750 points. Avoid TL-shots as much as possible, two large blasts is the best thing you can pull out of your FP, they are best as anti-infantry support. FP are not particularly effective at shooting anything, besides very large tanks, with their small blasts.

(1)* You can mess around a lot with DA, trying out new gear and such. Try mixing up the information presented here, and tailoring your troops to your liking. One squad of shooty, one squad of (defensive) CC, and one minimized squad*(a) for scoring purposes.

(2)* Equip your tanks generally with weaponry that your infantry is lacking. Eldar, unfortunately, have little access to long-range AT firepower. Bright lances are good counters to heavy AV (13-14), EML do pretty well against medium AV (11-12), and S. Lasers do well against light AV (10-11). Mix and match until you feel you can deal with a minimum of one heavy AV tank, and as many as five medium/light tanks. Eldar do poorly in this department, so don't spend to much time trying to customize your army. S. Lasers/ S. Cannons do well against pretty much all infantry, as they wound most everything on a 2/3+. You can take both, and bring seven S6 shots to bear (4 of which are TL) against tough infantry.

(3)* I would suggest making the CC DA squad defensive, and sticking your Farseer in it, to provide a bit of insurance on your Doom insurance. Like a car in your car, so you can drive your car in your tank... because we are Eldar, and re-rolls make us better.

Drop Doom on a large squad of Orks, or a nasty MC, then blast them off the board with 64 S. Cat shots. You can even back that up with another 18 shots, and whatever else you have lying around. Spam of that magnitude is really hard to avoid getting annihilated by.

(4)* Striking Scorpions when combined with (defensive) DA, will absolutely wreck Ork face.

There is no unit in the Ork codex that can effectively counter a focused assault of that magnitude. You will be taking away one attack from every squad your DA are attacking (multi-assaults are neat!), and protecting your DA with a 5++ save (RR from fortune if you like), rendering PW/PK ineffective. Use your DA to 'grab' the PW/PK units out of a squad, then bring in your Scorpions to own a flank. The only downside here, is that the odds of the Orks running away from an assault like this, are very out of favor. You're likely to end up standing there twiddling your thumbs, waiting to get shot/assaulted by anything nearby.

(a)*Subset strategy-
You can minimize your costs, and just take advantage of the fact that your DA are cheap enough, while not being quite as flimsy as Guardians to be used in super cheap squads. 5 DA walk into a transport, and they basically stay there all game. The transport (Falcons are actually pretty effective scoring units, they are good alternatives to WS in this situation) is now scoring, and that is exactly what it does. You have to play pretty conservatively to make this an effective strategy, but 160 point scoring tanks are not particular expensive to lose in shooting.

Shooty Alternative-
This style basically revolves around pumping out as much AV as Eldarly possible. You will still be using DA to your liking, alternatively you can bring out a squad of Storm Guardians (Flamers, HF Warlock) to weed out the units hiding in cover. Add in 2 squads of FD, equip your tanks with a minimum of 2 BL, 2 EML, and a Scatterlaser if you like. After that, you are basically limited to using Warp Spiders, or Bikes to add an extra bit of S6 punch in. I am not a big fan of bikes, as they are one of the hardest units in the codex, to effectively use. Warp Spiders work well in medium squads (6-7, Exarch*(!) w/ Dual D. spinners), and you can stick a WJJ/Fusion gun Autarch*(!) into the squad for an extra bit of AV.

You can also use Vypers to bring in more S6 shots, but they have the nasty drawback of being very good at dying on turn two. There are very few gaming tables that will accommodate Vypers in general, and they will have to rely on your tanks to avoid instant death. If you do choose to get them, equip them with two S. cannons, and use them in squads of 2 minimum. 10 points per shot is pretty good, and if you can get more than one round of shooting out of them, they will prove pretty useful.

(!)* You can choose to add in M. blaster/PW to the Autarch, and PW to the Exarch, but it is a waste of points IMHO. They can reliably get one wound against Tac SM, but they really should be shooting instead, as they excel at that.

------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---

CC Primary-
There are many styles of assault list, but they all pretty much work the same way. Eldar usually hit first, and that is pretty much all you need to know. Banshees are a great example of how Eldar CC works; they run in (hit first) and die. Scorpions are marginally better at not dying, but only against units that do poorly when assaulted (like Ork boys/Guard/Firewarriors). Harlequins CAN take a Falcon transport, but they shouldn't, and they really have very few roles in a mechanized army.

Striking Scorpions are the bread and butter of a CC-Eldar force, Banshees are also pretty effective. Take two squads of Scorpions*(1), and a squad of Banshees*(2), then stick them all in tanks. Back this up with your choice of HQ, Karandras, Jain Zar, and Yriel are good choices. You can bring a squad of Warlocks*(3) to add a bit more potent AV to your force. Storm Guardians (Flamers, HF Warlock) are pretty good options for this style of army, as they are able to effectively pick out squads from cover. Stormies can also do decently well in CC, as they will be striking first in a lot of situations.

(1)* Scorpions are best used in medium to large squads (6-10), and the Exarch is optional. The ability to confer scout abilities to a tank is great, especially if you have two or more of them. 3 squads of Scorpions is excessive IMO, but it does have pretty explicit advantages when used well. Your Exarch should take a PK, even though it is S6, which is mildly pathetic. You can take a biting blade as well, and it is a pretty good combo, but your going to end up pretty tight on points with a CC force. The biting blade should be used if you are attacking units that have bad armor saves (5/6+), and if you are attacking transports, as you can get S8 attacks. Shadowstrike as noted is optional, but if you have the Exarch, there is really no reason to not get it. Stalker is a great upgrade IMO, and it can definitely mean the difference between being useful and not such. Scorpions are bully units, and versus something comparable in nature, they really don't do all that well. They will be hitting first with a good amount of attacks, unfortunately S4 is not enough to get reliable damage on well armored units. Tac marines are not fans of Scorpions, as they do reliably terrible in assaults, and will be forced to run away in most situations. Assault marines on the other hand, are going to do some considerable damage, even if they have to run away.

(2)* Banshees are really simple units, they have a limited variety of optimum targets, and they benefit a lot from Doom. They will strictly annihilate Tac marines, and they kick Khorne Beserkers and the like, right in the nuts, even if they are pretty much guaranteed to die shortly after. The Exarch should always take the executioner, simply because a S5 Ini6 PW, is just too good to pass up. War shout can be useful, albeit unreliable, and acrobatic is probably not worth taking. Use Banshees in squads of 6-10.

(3)* Warlocks are good in large medium to large squads (6-10). You should take one Warlock with Enhance, two with Embolden, and a couple of HF if you would like. Spirit spears are particularly effective when tank-bound, and your focus should be on CC anyway. Attack tanks as your primary target, try to multi-assault as often as possible, while avoiding small arms spam. Mass lasgun shots can easily overwhelm your saves, which should be backed up by Fortune at all times. Getting a cheap Farseer with nothing but fortune, and sticking it in with the Warlocks is the best way to achieve this. Expensive IC's can stay with the Warlocks to benefit from their tough nature.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1402033.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1402033.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get?

SDasher wrote:Wow, thank you all so much for your advice - I honestly wasn't expecting much in the way of help, so again, thank you!

I will consider your proposal well, lords2001, it seems to have real value in there. Recently the store I was buying from online had to restrict its deliveries to the UK only, and being Aussie, I felt fairly left out. Maelstrom has a good reputation, I take it?

I think the list you've provided for me is very nice, but... I've heard that Fire Dragons were very much one-trick ponies in the respect that they fly around in a WS, disembark, shoot the hell out of a tank or something, then get shot to death, or assaulted. What's your opinion?

True, Firedragons are often 1 trick ponies, especially if you disembark right in the middle of the enemy. I often find them useful however in killing something that HAS to die, or even better is for sniping those 1 or 2 tanks shuffling down an edge trying to outflank you.

If you want total mech - I would still suggest keeping the battleforces, as the Guardians are free. As in, totally free because of the package discount. True, you are paying for the War Walkers, but they are totally fun, plus usable.

The farseer box with warlocks is cool as well - you can assign the warlocks directly to the guardian squads if required, or set up a nice bodyguard.

I would only suggest swapping out the Wraithlord to another Falcon if you like - I would suggest a Fire Prism, but there have been rumours about a plastic one coming out, and that is something worth waiting for if true.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1402601.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1402601.page GMT Re:Eager to start Eldar - what to get? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1402678.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1402678.page GMT Re:Eager to start Eldar - what to get?

Ailaros wrote:As mentioned before, the difference, model-wise between defenders and avengers is immaterial. Just paint them blue and you'll be fine. Plus, you can always go back and add a bit of plasticard or greenstuff to give them plumage once you get good with those materials. As such, you can really think of a battleforce as giving you 30 avengers.

True, you could definately do that.

I also believe that the sets of Guardians and Dire Avengers are almost completely compatable - you could switch legs and torso's between the two to create some fun hybrids.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1402877.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1402877.page GMT Eager to start Eldar - what to get?

Indeed, FDs are a one-trick pony.
But they are perfect to disrupt enemy plans.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1404431.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283462/1404431.page GMT Re:Eager to start Eldar - what to get? A farseer is the most flexible hq choice, getting the eldrad figure and coutning him as a regular farseer might work well for you.

One unit (at least) of dire avengers is needed in most eldar lists, they really do form the core of the troops choices. Painting regular guardians blue should work fine

A second unit of DA would be good, but another option would be to try 5 pathfinders. With a limited budget the DA are probably the better way to go since they are a more solid list choice. And if you do go the battleforce route then you should be able to make plenty of DA.

Just wanted to stress: do NOT get a falcon.

There are much better heavy choices, and there really arent many lists where you need a falcon as a transport. Serpents make better transports in general for fewer points.

Fire dragons are only useful for a few targets. But, they are very very useful for taking out those targets. Nothing else cracks high AV targets like a unit of dragons, and if there isnt a high AV target then there are probably some heavy infantry or MC around to shoot up. Yes, your opponent will probably make certain that they die the next turn, but killing them is still going to eat up a turn for another 1-2 of his units. Fire dragons are great in the current metagame.

Serpents are good in most eldar lists, fire dragons and dire avengers almost have to have serpents to work properly.

If you can, magnetize your vehicle weapons, especially on war walkers and serpents if you can. There are several good weapons for serpents (scatter lasers, shuri cannons, eml, BL all can work) and 2-3 good load outs for walkers (scatter lasers, eml, shuri cannons can all work).

War walkers are a great heavy choice, they can be given several nice weapons loads. Fire prisms also make great heavy picks (and while I prefer them myself) war walkers may be a better option for your build. WL arent at all bad, but they work better in multiples.

Two battle forces would give you a large force for a small real life outlay. Painting all the guardians as DA would give you a very solid core, adding a third war walker wouldnt be much more.

Sliggoth

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