<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Dealing with the Nightbringer?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Dealing with the Nightbringer? CSM. What units would be good to deal with him. His toughness 8 is a PAIN! I have 2 oblits, a vindicator, abaddon, and maybe like some marines with missile launchers. What units( anything in the chaos army, regardless of whether i have them or not) would work best for this. Also, a little advice on dealing with those 14 armor on all sides tanks would be helpful. Thanks!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1402826.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1402826.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1402837.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1402837.page GMT Re:Dealing with the Nightbringer? DP can pretty much negate/kite a Nightbringer for the entire game.

If you wanna beat him the non cheesy way just ignore him and go for the warriors/phase out.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1402856.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1402856.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? LoS as i prefer a nurgle/warptime DP. But i usually just avoid him and flank his necrons, who he barely can move without falling off the table edge hehe so just charging rhinos works fine, just disembark kill all units with an orb and dominate.. as us chaos players are all too familiar with CHAOS FTW!!


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oops stupid slow ass computer haha]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1402911.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1402911.page GMT Re:Dealing with the Nightbringer? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1402984.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1402984.page GMT Re:Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Vache Glace wrote:Lash of Submission. A 155 pt. DP can pretty much negate/kite a Nightbringer for the entire game.


This isn't a bad way to keep him out of CC range, but I don't think it would work more than once on the same opponent.

Personally I think a squad of havocs with autocannons would take him down just fine in a turn or two. Strangely the same amount of points, but it wouldnt force you to use your DP as a nightbringer nanny.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403006.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403006.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? DP and aspiring sorcerers can cast it twice in one turn also while in CC. And ahriman can cast it 3 times a turn.

Yes its unlikey. But, i have done it before.... More than once ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403018.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403018.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403048.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403048.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
mrwittwer wrote:If you are feelin lucky. Gift of chaos turns him into spawn on a 6.


Biggest problem being you need to be within 6" to use it, which is the nightbringer's kill zone. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403050.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403050.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403073.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403073.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
It takes 30 str8 shots to kill him. Waste of time don't bother. That's 20 dead necron warriors that could be killed with the same firepower.

Bottom line if you face the nightbringer the necron player only has 1 necron lord, and 1 res orb. Kill the Necron lord and necrons instead, force a phase out.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403198.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403198.page GMT Re:Dealing with the Nightbringer? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403277.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403277.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
All you need is something that costs less than he does to tarpit the deciever, while you annihilate his rather vulnerable warriors.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403323.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403323.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
It depends....the Deciever will NEVER be tarpitted if he doesn't want to be.

While Nightbringer can only be tarpitted by stuff over a certain statistic.

So, it's not that easy to tarpit them, but you can block movement with vehilces and units as normal.
C'Tan as mentioned are there to be a big target to draw some more powerful shooting away from other elements.

And the most simple answer is to just deal with the other 'necrons' to deal with the C'Tan. Else the best option are:

Hellfire Rounds = ace.
Gift/Boon of Chaos.
Sniper Rifles...and pretty much anything else that ignores the Toughnes values for wounding as the 4++ is pretty meh against the stuff named above.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403710.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403710.page GMT Re:Dealing with the Nightbringer? if so thats your solution. I don't know personnaly as I don't play CSM]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403810.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403810.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? The answer is: no.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403955.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1403955.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? MoS and a daemone wpn, or anyone with force wpn, can instant death him. Typhus is another great option he has poision so he can actually wound him, and then use force wpn to seal the deal. It's so lame they are not immune but untill nex dex comes out C'tan are just trophies for the skull taker!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404037.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404037.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? CSM codex is Nurgle Deamon weapons which are only available on Typhus and Nurgle chaos lords, both of which are subject to instant death from the nightbringer.

That being said Nightbringer=1 less res orb.
Nightbringer + Monolith (s)=low phase out number
Just phase them out.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404038.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404038.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Please read the previous posts, we have gone over the Blissgiver and it does not work vs. a C'Tan just because the lord can't wound the C'Tan.

Typhus vs. C'Tan: the C'Tan would simply decide not to fight him (tempest ability)...which would leave Typhus with just trying to WoC the C'Tan to death.

@Schadenfreude:

A low phase out number isn't exactly a 'terrible' thing.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404107.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404107.page GMT Re:Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Halsfield wrote:
Vache Glace wrote:Lash of Submission. A 155 pt. DP can pretty much negate/kite a Nightbringer for the entire game.


This isn't a bad way to keep him out of CC range, but I don't think it would work more than once on the same opponent.


There's no way for a Necron player to adapt to it, beyond shooting the Lasher to death. He's a big model, slow, and almost impossible to totally block line of sight to unless using a crazy double/triple monolith wall.

Mass Destroyers certainly can shoot a Daemon Prince to death with relative ease, but your point investment is ridiculous at that point.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404224.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404224.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Against AV14, meltagun spam should work fine. Chosen can have 5 in a unit, regular CSM squads of 10 can have two. Slap in rhinos, instant tank hunters. Your monstrous creatures (DP, Greater Daemon), dreads, and defilers can rip them apart as well, plus there's always meltagun oblits and characters/champs with meltabombs. You should have plenty of options.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404267.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404267.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Like I said, If Nightbringer doesn't want to be tarpitted by Lesser Daemons in combat, he won't be.
The most you can do with lesser daemons is get in the way of his movement, rather than locking him in combat. (Re: his tempest ability)

Your suggestions vs AV14 with respect to the Necron codex isn't totally accurate.
DP and GD can't scratch the monolith, living armor says 'no' to them.
Dreads and defilers are decent killing it in combat, while the vindi at range.
Meltas are really hit or miss, they don't get the 2D6, so you will have to rely on rolling a 6, in which case the mono then has a 1/6 chance to be wrecked after the said 6.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404515.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404515.page GMT Re:Dealing with the Nightbringer?
sourclams wrote:

There's no way for a Necron player to adapt to it, beyond shooting the Lasher to death.


Shooting him to death is pretty much what necrons have going for their entire army. The DP must be within 24" of the nightbringer and if you have warriors/monolith somewhere in between there he is going to be within range for shooting of a large number of units. Once the lasher is out of the way the nightbringer is free to tear up the rest of the army.

schadenfreude wrote:Havoc squads with missile launchers math hammer=30 shots=20 hits=10 wounds=5 failed saves=dead nightbringer.

It takes 30 str8 shots to kill him. Waste of time don't bother. That's 20 dead necron warriors that could be killed with the same firepower.

Bottom line if you face the nightbringer the necron player only has 1 necron lord, and 1 res orb. Kill the Necron lord and necrons instead, force a phase out.


If this was a response to me I was talking about autocannons so let's get that out of the way first. Next, it would take 3 squads of 4 missile launchers 3 rounds to deal 5 wounds (2/round). With ACs you would be doing 2.5/round with the same amount of weapons(so equal chance of killing in 2 rounds or 3). So 50% chance that you will kill him an entire round earlier.

They would certainly all be better when turned on the necrons themselves but this is a post entitled "dealing with the nightbringer" so I'm trying to help the guy with what he wants help with.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404538.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404538.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404561.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404561.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Sanctjud wrote:@Halsfield...where are you getting 4 autocannons = 12 shots?


In my dreams?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404601.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404601.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404628.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404628.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
sancjtud wrote: Nah, it's more like your hopes...


Well feel free to check my math again. My hopes cling to .5 wounds per round. Feel free to dash them against the rocks of reality.






wtf dakka, first it looks like a double post so I edit the text out of the second one. Then my quote disappears. Then the first reply disappears and only the edited (doubled) post remains. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404631.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1404631.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405052.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405052.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Sanctjud wrote:@Skarboy:Like I said, If Nightbringer doesn't want to be tarpitted by Lesser Daemons in combat, he won't be.
The most you can do with lesser daemons is get in the way of his movement, rather than locking him in combat. (Re: his tempest ability)


Doesn't the tempest only affect units of under S4? Aren't lesser daemons S4, thus making them resist the tempest? Did they FAQ it or something? Otherwise, there's nothing I can see that wouldn't let lesser daemons tarpit him...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405070.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405070.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Skarboy wrote:

Doesn't the tempest only affect units of under S4? Aren't lesser daemons S4, thus making them resist the tempest? Did they FAQ it or something? Otherwise, there's nothing I can see that wouldn't let lesser daemons tarpit him...


The tempest may not be a problem for them, but the gaze of death certainly is a problem. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405121.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405121.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Halsfield wrote:
Skarboy wrote:

Doesn't the tempest only affect units of under S4? Aren't lesser daemons S4, thus making them resist the tempest? Did they FAQ it or something? Otherwise, there's nothing I can see that wouldn't let lesser daemons tarpit him...


The tempest may not be a problem for them, but the gaze of death certainly is a problem.


That would be damaging, but a S4 hit would only cause wounds 1/2 the time and they'd still have an invulnerable save and are Fearless. I don't expect them to hold out the entire game, but if they can buy 2-3 turns in the heart of the game, that is more than enough. Plus, that daemon unit probably costs half of what Nightbringer does, so the rest of your army has a 150-200 pt advantage. Worth it to me.

Frankly, the Deceiver seems to be a better choice, not that I'd enjoy facing either with Orks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405187.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405187.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Skarboy wrote:

That would be damaging, but a S4 hit would only cause wounds 1/2 the time and they'd still have an invulnerable save and are Fearless. I don't expect them to hold out the entire game, but if they can buy 2-3 turns in the heart of the game, that is more than enough. Plus, that daemon unit probably costs half of what Nightbringer does, so the rest of your army has a 150-200 pt advantage. Worth it to me.



The exact details of how you bring the LDs into being, how big the LD squad is, etc matters a lot when figuring out how this would work out. If you bring them into being with a squad of csms holding an icon that's a lot more than just the cost of the LDs he could be killing. If nightbringer shoots and then gets the charge that's a good portion of whatever squad gone already. The next round he is killing half of anything under that template (with potential to kill them all). This also says nothing about what his monolith and the rest of the army are doing.I think it is entirely possible that he could deal some damage before you are in a position to tarpit him as well.

There is nothing that says a 360 pt unit needs to kill 360+ points of the enemy to be worth taking either. If he ties up a significant portion of your army (1 csm squad + 1 ld squad + whatever he kills with his shooting attack before getting into CC) so the rest of his army can do their thing he was worth it.

He is certainly better against armies with lots of str 3 units, but I think he would walk over anything you threw at him and be very hard to kill while doing it.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405302.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405302.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1405824.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? str 3 and under that get swept away.
I don't have the Necron codex, but it was PMed to me by a friend who thought it was str 4 as well, but got to check it out for sure.

It's nice to cheat without knowing it .

Anyway, my bad there.

@Halsfield:

You say:
4 Autocannons = 12 shots.
I'm saying you are wrong.
4 Autocannons = 8 shots.

Anyway, you have editted your post after my post calling you out on it, so you have corrected/deleted whatever you had written.

_________________

As for reserved necron warrirors...they must roll to come in starting turn 2, so they will eventually be there.
And I did say focus on killing 'NECRON' units...there are plenty ofthers besides just necron warriors. By the time you deal with destroyers and such, the warriors should be on the board by then.

As for NB, if you've meched up just stay away. You get booted out, run away if you are the closest thing, if you can't, then just charge in...there's not much else you can do, by taking NB the necron player has also handicapped himself in terms of model count.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1406800.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1406800.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? CC for the LD.

Deceiver is way better than the Nightbringer, IMO.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1407423.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1407423.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1444730.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1444730.page GMT Re:Dealing with the Nightbringer?
Halsfield wrote:
sourclams wrote:

There's no way for a Necron player to adapt to it, beyond shooting the Lasher to death.


Shooting him to death is pretty much what necrons have going for their entire army. The DP must be within 24" of the nightbringer and if you have warriors/monolith somewhere in between there he is going to be within range for shooting of a large number of units. Once the lasher is out of the way the nightbringer is free to tear up the rest of the army.

schadenfreude wrote:Havoc squads with missile launchers math hammer=30 shots=20 hits=10 wounds=5 failed saves=dead nightbringer.

It takes 30 str8 shots to kill him. Waste of time don't bother. That's 20 dead necron warriors that could be killed with the same firepower.

Bottom line if you face the nightbringer the necron player only has 1 necron lord, and 1 res orb. Kill the Necron lord and necrons instead, force a phase out.


If this was a response to me I was talking about autocannons so let's get that out of the way first. Next, it would take 3 squads of 4 missile launchers 3 rounds to deal 5 wounds (2/round). With ACs you would be doing 2.5/round with the same amount of weapons(so equal chance of killing in 2 rounds or 3). So 50% chance that you will kill him an entire round earlier.

They would certainly all be better when turned on the necrons themselves but this is a post entitled "dealing with the nightbringer" so I'm trying to help the guy with what he wants help with.




If a chaos player wanted to make an army to kill the nightbringer 3 squads of havocs with AC would do it, but 12 autocannons isn't the best of choices for fighting units with a 3+ armor save such as marines, other chaos armies, or big tyranids.

What next after the nightbringer is dead?
What are all those autocannons going to do? Shoot necron warriors?
24 autocannon shots=16 hits=13.33333wounds= 4.44444 failed necron warriors armor saves=2.22222 failed we'll be back rolls.
After the night bringer is dead that army will have 3 heavy support slots that can only kill 2 single necron warriors per turn.

In the same 2 turns you spent killing the night bringer a normal CSM lash list could wipe out 4 squads necron warriors with a combination of lash and template weapons, probably forcing a phase out before turn 5.

Necrons have no psychic defense, their troops can't hide in transports, and they forfeit the game if you kill 75% of their infantry. If a CSM player can't phase out a necron list that wasted 360 points on a CC HQ the problem is with the chaos player.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1444859.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1444859.page GMT Dealing with the Nightbringer? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1444892.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1444892.page GMT Re:Dealing with the Nightbringer? CC ability of the big grey slasher, DoG! it. He fails to stop it and promptly gets mulched. If it fails the first time, keep trying.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1449959.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/283717/1449959.page GMT