<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam TL Assault Cannon Razorbacks and Vindicators have always been very very interesting to me, but the short range always seemed to be too limiting. But with fast vehicles, this is no longer a problem so without further ado:

Librarian 100
Blood Lance
Shield of Sanginius

Librarian 100
Blood Lance
Shield of Sanginius

5 Assault Marines 165
Flamer
Razorback
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades

5 Assault Marines 165
Flamer
Razorback
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades

5 Assault Marines 165
Flamer
Razorback
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades

5 Assault Marines 165
Flamer
Razorback
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades

5 Assault Marines 165
Flamer
Razorback
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades

5 Assault Marines 165
Flamer
Razorback
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades

Baal Predator 120
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades

Baal Predator 120
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades

Baal Predator 120
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades

Vindicator 150
Dozer Blades

Vindicator 150
Dozer Blades

Vindicator 150
Dozer Blades

2000

Normally I would think that the dozer blades are a waste, but in this list, I intend everything to be moving 12" every single turn, skirting around opponents for side shots, and just bringing everything to bear into one spot on the table and crushing my opponent there before moving on. Losing mobility will hurt the list a lot, and the dozer blades allow me to just barrel right through terrain pieces my opponent would expect me to move around.The 6 armour 13 vehicles go in front, getting a 5+ cover save from the librarians, and the 6 razorbacks go behind with either a 4+ or 3+ depending on how close they are to tanks in front.

Yes, I am aware that the list has very short range, but I'm hoping the mobility and sheer amout of firepower in one spot will be able to overcome this. Thoughts? Do you think it could work?

EDIT: HERE IS THE NEW LIST, much improved if I do say so myself (with help from people here)

Librarian 100
Shield
Lance

Corbulo 105

Inquisitor 35
Emperors tarot

5 Assault Marines x6 990
Razorback
Lascannon/TL Plasmagun
Hunter Killer Missile

Baal Predator x3 345
Assault Cannon

Predator x2 290
Autocannon
Lascannon Sponsons
Hunter Killer Missile

Predator 135
Autocannon
Lascannon Sponsons

2000

It goes first 85% of the time, and it alpha strikes you. That's the plan. lol]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1412452.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1412452.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam AV 14 with Assault Cannons with the average of say 3 hits per turn, you'll get an average of .5 6's and then you need a a 5-6 to pen or a 4-5 to glance. Against vehicles that don't let you roll that extra rending die (Eldar Grav Tanks) you're going to be hurting. I would switch 3 of the Razorbacks to Twin-Linked Lascannons for extra armor penetration ability.

It's basically a guaranteed hit each turn and with 3 of them you'll be able to pen AV every other turn. Not to mention easily destroy anything lower than that. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1412463.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1412463.page GMT Re:2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1412665.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1412665.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
4 (shots) x .88 (to hit) x .16 (to rend) x .33 (to pen) = 19.8% chance to pen

1 (shot) x .88 (to hit) x .16 (to pen) = 14.8% chance to pen

The assault cannon is statistically superior against all armour values over the TL lascannon in all respects except for range. It is also much better against infantry as well.

Although I do admit that against eldar waveserpents (only the waveserpents have the ability, not all their grav tanks) I will have some frustration. I didn't think about that one, lol. Thank you for that. :]

If I were going to swap the assault cannons for anything, it would be Lascannon/TL Plasma Gun, but unfortunately this would change the whole playstyle of the list.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ hivefleetmonolith-

Eh, its definitely not an autowin against tyranids. If you fight tooth and nail for those cover saves, and you have a couple of tervigons to put FNP on your units, its going to be a pain to bring anything down. I think a well built tyranid list should at least give this a run for its money, and it should be close match. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1412670.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1412670.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam LCs will help you more against Wave Serpents and Monoliths and probably even MCs (certainly C'tan) than the assault cannons.

Other than that looks a pretty identikit SW list using BA fast vehicles to compensate and we all know how effective the wolves were with this type of list. THhough the Wolves have the advantage of Counter attack and boltguns, you have Baal Preds and Fast Vinidcators so should be a pretty awesome list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1412974.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1412974.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam imo. Thats why I had the idea when I saw the new book.

The loss of boltguns doesn't really mean anything to me, I never shot them the whole time I played the wolves, and counter attack isn't that bad either because I think this list is actually more durable because of the armor 13, and blood angels' shield of sanginius is cast in my opponent's shooting phase, allowing me cover even when I don't go first.


any other thoughts guys?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413523.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413523.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413616.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413616.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam TL Assault Cannons, only 9, and they're all stuck on vehicles... Frightening

Maybe it might be fair for you to have to go second?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413733.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413733.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413745.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413745.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
just like stormcaller does. So yes, you get a cover save on vehicles from shield of sanguinius.

rdlb- it is frightening, but I think the list does have the huge shortcoming of range. I can only work within 24" of you. (although I do admit its quite deadly once it gets there ;D lol)

and hey, I could add in an inquisitor with emperors tarot instead of some of the dozer blades for that added chance to get first turn if I really wanted. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413750.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413750.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
A list like this is very mean, and I have thought about making one myself.. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413772.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413772.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
"Alternate sexual orientation"

comes to mind when viewing a list like this. But for flat out cheese it's hard to beat.

Throw in MM/HF land speeders and you have a perfect Ard Boys List.

Any thoughts on squeezing in a Sang Priest or 2 to make all your "troops" FNP?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413864.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413864.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413883.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1413883.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
You do not have to be obscured to recieve cover save on vehicle, you just have to be obscured to recieve a cover save on a vehicle from terrain or other models in the way.

Russel- I would much rather have the baal predators as my fast attack rather than the mm/hf speeders. Those are for either vanilla marines, or space wolves. If I were to bump it up to 2500 I would probably add a couple units of sternguard with a whole lot of combi-meltas and heavy flamers because that is something this list lacks.

I would love to put in sanguinary priests, and yes I am aware that they are a bargain for their points, but if I drop all the flamers and dozer blades I unfortunately only net 90 points, not enough for the pair that I would want/need in the army. I don't think its worth the trade. If my troops are forced out of their razorbacks I will unfortunately have to leave them behind if needed, and they will just sit on a piece of terrain, g2g, and hopefully hold on to my objective. The list can't afford to stay still.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414031.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414031.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam pg 60.

"If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing or penetrating hit, it may take a cover save against it, exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a wound.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414046.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414046.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
The quote you have provided gives no support for your claim, it actually supports mine. There is more than one way for model to receive a cover save, and actually being in cover is just one of them. The part in the rulebook that states only that a vehicle must be obscured to claim to be in cover, not receive a cover save. There is a difference. You can get cover saves on a model by turboboosting with a bike, moving flat out with a skimmer, and being in range of a power or ability that grants you a cover save, just like stormcaller or SoS, and none of these require to be in cover.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414266.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414266.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam KFF says vehicles in range are obscured..

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/284466.page I put the question up in YMDC go ahead and state your case so I stop spamming the 2 threads.. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414284.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414284.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam tbh.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414332.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414332.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
At any rate your list is still frightening, and no one has even mentioned the three fast vindicators, which are particularly frightening. Just have fun playing it and clear the 'issue' up with your opponent before each game, I'm sure it will be nasty and fun either way. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414372.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1414372.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415189.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415189.page GMT Re:2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415242.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415242.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam FAQ. And with the terrain, the whole reason I put the dozerblades on is so that I COULD just plow right through terrain pieces to get to where I needed, without having to worry so much.

I don't think it will have a problem with the 'bottleneck', and if needed I can just split the army in two wings- it divides quite nicely. I plan on having my first game with it tomorrow. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415296.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415296.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam SW version of this list, which outnumbers you in vehicles and also brings Long Fangs?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415474.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415474.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
But because of all of this, what do you guys think of this list instead? It really goes against the whole playstyle that I wanted with the first list... but it is probably more effective..

I call it "Relentless"

Librarian 100
Blood Lance
Shield of Sanginius

Librarian 100
Blood Lance
Shield of Sanginius

5 Assault Marines 160
Flamer
Razorback
Lascannon/TL Plasmagun

5 Assault Marines 160
Flamer
Razorback
Lascannon/TL Plasmagun

5 Assault Marines 160
Flamer
Razorback
Lascannon/TL Plasmagun

5 Assault Marines 160
Flamer
Razorback
Lascannon/TL Plasmagun

5 Assault Marines 160
Flamer
Razorback
Lascannon/TL Plasmagun

5 Assault Marines 160
Flamer
Razorback
Lascannon/TL Plasmagun

Baal Predator 145
TL Assault Cannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Baal Predator 145
TL Assault Cannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Baal Predator 145
TL Assault Cannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Predator 135
Autocannon
Lascannon Sponsons

Predator 135
Autocannon
Lascannon Sponsons

Predator 135
Autocannon
Lascannon Sponsons

2000

just move 6" every turn and fire continuously the whole way]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415516.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415516.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam IMO is far superior to the vindicator variant.

Too easy to lose the only threat the vindicator has and there is really no need for all those dozer blades.

50/50 on the Baals taking flamestorm cannons too. With the scout move they basically wipe horde armies off the table if you get turn one.

Also need to throw Corbulo in there to give an extra shot at going first.

To get lean and mean drop a lib.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415536.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415536.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam 2d6 pen not ignoring rending as well?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415564.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415564.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
So I'm guessing that everyone is going to agree that the "Relentless" list is far superior to the vindicator one? I had both written out, I just think the vindi's would be more fun...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415571.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415571.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam AS/RB combos.

That gives you 420 pnts? Enough for a unit of th/sh terminators a pod and Corbulo easy right?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415573.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415573.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
and no, there is no such thing as 'too many troop choices'. Lol. When your troop choices don't suck, you take as many as you can- that's six of them. Trust me, play an objective game with max troop choices. It allows you to be very aggressive in your playstyle, while lists that have fewer troop choices are forced to be more conservative. This is a very good thing, it gives you control over the flow of the game, and allows you to get max battle points in tournaments (which this list is intended) because you actually can reliably get at least 4 objectives if you play smart. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415577.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415577.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
Your opponent basically has to turn some of their high powered weapons on them therefore reducing the fire they are able to send down range at your preds. They 'choose their poison' and they can't possibly just ignore the terminators.

Even if you drop down to 5 choices and wax one of the Libs that gives you 260 pnts to play with, enough to take Corbulo and other priests to beef up your 'aggressive assault squads.'
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415586.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415586.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
But I just don't want to play with terminators or drop pods in a list like this, it just doesn't fit, and I would rather have that 6th troop choice, and I'm just stating that the max troops allow you to have a more aggressive playstyle and not worry about protecting your troops at all costs. If your troop choices are good, then yes, they can be the workhorses of your army. I'm sorry if what I said came across wrong and offended you.

Here is a modified list though, just for funsies-

Librarian 100
Shield
Lance

Corbulo 105

Inquisitor 35
Emperors tarot

5 Assault Marines x6 990
Razorback
Lascannon/TL Plasmagun
Hunter Killer Missile

Baal Predator x3 345
Flamestorm Cannon

Predator x2 290
Autocannon
Lascannon Sponsons
Hunter Killer Missile

Predator 135
Autocannon
Lascannon Sponsons


The tarot and corbulo combo gives you about an 85% chance to get first turn, so you can scout up the baal's, then shoot the silly amount of hunter killers/lascannons/autocannons/plasmas, cripple his shooting, and hopefully demech a couple units and flame them with your s6 ap3 templates. lol. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415602.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415602.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
I think the 'core' of the list is 4 AS/RB's and 6 Preds and anything past that it is hard to screw up. For instance, adding some more AV 13 in the form of ripper dreads could also be an option.

While I don't think the 'All seeing eye' is essential it does rock the house for competitive play and is a much better bargain on a more useful character than has ever had anything like that before.

Heh, adding in the Tarot and you are more thank likely going to get shanked in the parking lot after the tournament.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415608.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415608.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam lol

thank you for the help/advice. I didn't even think about corbulo before. And can furiosos get hunter killers like ironclads? If so, I think that is great idea as well. LOL]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415615.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415615.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415625.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1415625.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam any other ideas?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1416786.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1416786.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417837.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417837.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
With Corbulo you are radically increasing your odds at going first - then you just have to bank on the other guy not seizing.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417847.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417847.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417856.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417856.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam IG armies can counter-Reserves you, and do it better with the appropriate advisors.

tjdieter2191-- Not particularly, as I'm not skeptical of this list itself, I'm skeptical of Razorback spam in general. This is by far the best Razorback spam list that I've seen, and I would definitely use the Corbulo variant of the list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417925.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417925.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
While it is not uncommon to take the Officer of the Fleet (i do all the time in my IG list) with 12+ things in the list that can destroy, or at least keep from shooting, vendettas (or chimeras or anything with a chimera chassis) your still not too at risk from the IG gun line because on average you're getting almost 4 of them in on round 2.

Just sayin'
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417947.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417947.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
blood angel wrote:If they win the roll to go first do you think they are going to say 'i'll keep all my crap in reserves?'


Reserves don't have to be all or nothing. Also, if you reserve against a Master of the Fleet army, you will probably get 3 out of your 9 actual anti-tank units in, which will be able to kill or suppress 3 enemy units at most. You will probably not succeed in doing this with all applicable units.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417973.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1417973.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1418281.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1418281.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam lol.

But sweet, I'm starting to feel a lot more accomplished in my list building skills, especially if it only takes three refinements to get to 'perfect' lol.

I'm still probably going to play with the vindicators, but most likely with the addition of corbulo, just because it seems for fun to play. Like I said, moving my models=fun, and I did the modified lists so that others could see my thought process, and if they liked what they saw.. steal the idea. lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@fetterkey- I think if you deploy correctly (I think you can manage to get half of your army in cover, and the other have to be covered by SoS), then I think the army is durable enough to soak up the alpha strike and keep firing. 13 front armour and cover saves is going to be quite difficult for even guard to deal with at range. If anything, I would be afraid of railguns, but even then it's still going to be a pain. With the combination of corbulo/tarot, having about an 85% chance to go first is incredible, and it usually should not be a problem.

And should I change the baal preds back to assault cannons? I just gave them flamestorms for funsies, to be honest. lol ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1418813.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1418813.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam LOS, in general, than sponsons do. Personally, I think you've got plenty of AT without the Las-sponsons on the Predators. I'd go HBs, myself, on those. I'm not sure what all the points values are on those, but it should be enough to equip the rest of your armor with HKMs. If you've got enough extra points, get some HF sponsons for the Baals. I'm not convinced by Assault Cannons anymore. In 4th, they were the end-all, be-all. Now, they're overpriced for what they do (how many Tornado LS do you see around anymore?). I think that's still the case for the Baal.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1418850.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1418850.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
As for you wanting first, even if I get it I'd give it to you. Going second is as powerful IMO.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1418851.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1418851.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
tjdieter2191 wrote:And should I change the baal preds back to assault cannons? I just gave them flamestorms for funsies, to be honest. lol


I'd definitely go with the twin ACs.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1419684.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1419684.page GMT Re:2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1419962.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1419962.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420022.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420022.page GMT Re:2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
Oh yeah and who cares about vandetta's or even mechdar.... all the tanks in this list are fast meaning you can add a foot to there firing range, no way those will out maneuver this list and even if the take a tank or 2 there going down in the next shooting phase, hands down.

Also, there's no such thing as "too many troops" in this edition... 2/3's of the missions are objectives, spamming troops never hurts.

This list is going to be real fun to play so make sure you write up some batreps up when you test it.

It will be funny though if you ever play a deffroller army that manages to run over a few tanks a turn, I doubt they would get close enough though with all that las cannon goodness and =1 for open top, still though... it would be funny. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420081.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420081.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420084.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420084.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam Lol this is pretty much my space marine list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420164.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420164.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam plas is still probably better (its a shame, I really like those assault cannons too lol). And I wouldn't ever put heavy flamer sponsons on the baal. They're a main weapon.. so you will only ever be able to fire one when you move 12 (which you will have to, to make the flamer effective... unless your opponent is an imbecile lol)

sanctjud- Normally going second is just as powerful as going first. But in this case, you want to go first so you can deny this like the alpha strike. If this list goes first, I'm completely serious when I say that it can seriously cripple (shake/stun enough vehicles that you can't return fire, or focus fire on any foot fire support units) your army in the first turn, and then continue to wittle away at you every turn after that.

fetterkey- yes, I will change it back. I think the duality of the assault cannon is much better.

cjsuner- the list doesn't assault, it fills you with bullets. unless it is extremely in my favor (guard/tau) and I have been blown out of my transport. I bought the taxis, I intend to use 'em. lol

IG88- I don't think this list will have any problems with battlewagons. I'm so mobile that getting side shots should be a piece of cake, and once I do, the amount of firepower I have, the battlewagons go poof.

I haven't been posting on here for long, (obviously) if I were to post a battlereport with this list, where do I put it?

CKO- What do you mean 'bring back the hammer units'?
Are you talking about the big expensive units that wreck everything they touch? Because if so, I'm not scared of any of those units, considerings those units are CC oriented, and they will have a tough time catching me/hitting me in CC because I will just move fast if needed.

Asherian- surely you're not referring to a vanilla marine list? Blood angels do razorback spam much much better, if you couldn't tell.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420228.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420228.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam av 13 spam is going to be the most popular build, but I think this list does not match up well against vulkan list. Assault terminators with a nice mix of melta weapons will be hard for you to deal with, 30 marines are not that scary.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420277.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420277.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam mm/hf speeders. And guess what, they're target number 1. And with this much firepower, even if you move flat out, you will at least be shaken/stunned, if not dead. Dreads only move 6, and can be avoided (especially with the most updated list, because it has very good range), and then you have tacticals. Which will move up 12 first turn, not fire, and then be either avoided, or shaken and ignored. I don't care about vulkan. I don't care if you're twin-linked if you cant fire. The only lists I'm really threatened by (not even scared of) are lists that have a similar build-- many many targets, and a lot of long ranged, high strength firepower. Thats guard, tau, and a few marine builds.

I just replied about the assault terminators. What the hell are they going to do against fast moving vehicles/a hail of bullets/lascannons and plasma guns up the ying yang. Oh yeah, either do nothing, or die. awesome. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420292.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420292.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
Just sort of being devils advocate at this point. I like the range and the potential to pop av 14 or murder high toughness creatures with the assault cannons.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
CKO wrote:The list is solid I think everyone knows that av 13 spam is going to be the most popular build, but I think this list does not match up well against vulkan list. Assault terminators with a nice mix of melta weapons will be hard for you to deal with, 30 marines are not that scary.


The only prayer that vulkan has is with drop pods - which is viable. But that is at best a coin flip since you'll only get half the army down on the first turn facing the entire BA gun line. You kill a couple of tanks, maybe - because don't forget about cover and the 5+ save from the lib, and then get to put your entire 'first strike' force back in the box.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420297.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420297.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam lol. So, lets see which is better against nids.. they will have tervigons to continue to spawn more gaunts, so killing a few first turn aren't going to help, you're going to need to kill the tervigons. Assault cannons are far superior in this role. Kill the tervigons and you cripple the army. The only other thing you would shoot at would be hive guard/zoanthropes, or tyrannofexs. The flamestorm is probably better against the hive guard, but much less effective against the other two. So even against the best horde army, the assault cannon will probably be less effective, a wash at best. Against everything else, the assault is probably better.

Like I said, I put the flamestorm in for funsies.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Uh no. Full drop pod armies aren't viable in the vanilla marine book. Period. We already went over the reserves option, and guess what, that's what you do against a drop marine army, every time. Vulkan is much better in an army that at least mostly starts on the table. If you really want a drop pod, put in suicide sternguard, at least they will hit reliably with vulkan. A vulkan army with mm/hf dreads and speeders, and mm/flamer tactical squads is a viable army, but it suffers the same problem my first list had- range.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420326.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420326.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420331.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420331.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420341.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420341.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam I did point out that I was being devils advocate for the fun times of being able to vroom vroom across the table and template someone.

Very true about the reserves against a DP army, unless you give that inquis a couple of mystics. Then his entire DP army is picked up as soon as it hits the table... if you had flame storm cannons

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420362.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420362.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam lol

But yes, scouting, fast, flamestorm cannons is hilarious, but probably not the best choice. Just like the TL assault cannons on the razorbacks, and fast vindicators. There are just better choices. (can you tell that I'm bitter about the first list not being the most effective? lol)

and I would love to put mystics on the inquisitor (especially considering my friend wants to do the all deepstriking jump marine army), but he doesn't have anywhere to go since he is no longer an independent character. Unless there were a few stormravens...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420371.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420371.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420386.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420386.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
CKO invoking the name of Vulkan is silly, just as silly as him trying to defend it by saying 'i play with stelek all the time'

Anyway.. back to our normal conversation. I have three baals.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420395.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420395.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam
The main problem with this list is that you believe you will be able to cripple an army in one round of shooting, which you can do if the list is all mech. What about list that have infantry in cover? You believe your baal predators will be able to move around the melta transports to reach them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420400.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420400.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Uh. Who is drop podding down and shooting 2 different units with meltas? A 10 man unit of sternguard? So that's what.. 300+ points to drop down, kill two targets (hopefully) then die? But unfortunately... this is your best option with drop pods, and its still not efficient. lol.

If they are just infantry in cover, and have heavy weapons then they aren't mobile.

If I go second then I will just refuse flank and force a 1/3 of your units to be out of range (what are we talking about here? Long fangs/devastators, IG heavy weapons teams, broadsides?)

If I go first then I will move as necessary to get cover/block LOS, and kill your supporting elements if its devastators, because they're really expensive and don't put out a scary amount of firepower. If its IG or broadsides, then they're very susceptible to instant death. Long fangs have no ablative wounds, and every time you pick up a model, it either takes away your split fire capability or has a heavy weapon.

blood angel- that makes much more sense, but still doesn't make it true. lol. and yes, invoking the name of vulkan/stelek is silly. lol. I frequent YTTH, but that doesn't make me super awesome pwnzors. lol

and whoa, what a coincidence, I also have 3 baals. but anyways. Any other contructive criticism? Should I edit the first post with the new list, so people don't comment on that one because they don't read the thread? Lol]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420401.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1420401.page GMT 2k New Blood Angels Razorback Spam http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1422995.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/284350/1422995.page GMT