<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "SM Captain and Retinue Options?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net SM Captain and Retinue Options?
-Put them all on bikes, supported by a large unit of biker marines.
-Put them on foot, riding in a Rhino or Razorback. Use the bikers as Fast Attack Squads.

Just looking to expand my options. I mostly use a Rhino Rush, can field 5 full tactical squads in Rhinos, with support from a Dread and Pred. Not a whole lot of Heavy Options, but was looking to use the new bikes/Attack Bikes/Land Speeders with Melta goodness to be able to deal with heavy armor threats, and keep the Marines mobile. Aiming to field a solid competitive 1500 point list. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1435697.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1435697.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? TL-lascannons. I'd say go for that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1435721.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1435721.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options?
Cheers,
~Volkan

Also the problem with bike command squads seems to be the amount of points you end up investing into them. They are quite pricey for 5 models.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1435729.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1435729.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1435939.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1435939.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options?
tedurur wrote:The only reason to take a Captain is to take him on a bike so that you have scoring bikers. Command squad in a rhino/razorback is a big no no


I personally disagree to having a bike captain. Without a bike, he is a strong character, and a Captain and his Command Squad just happen to fit perfectly in a Razorback with a weapon of your choice.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1436204.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1436204.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options?
None-bike Captains don't add very much.
Libby adds offensive power at range and in combat and psychic defense.
Chappy force multiplies the squad he's with.

Captain adds... one more deposit wound...combat muscle you pay through the nose for...and what else? Access to the Command Squad...whoop-di-do.

Scoring Bikers is a whole different issue.

With or without the bike, it's an average fighter.
Biker Command Squads are decent when one doesn't bling them out. They bring multiple special weapons in a small squad. Blinged out, it's the small squad sizet that kills it regardless of defensive values.

As for Captain + Command Squad it ends up being a counter assault unit if you really need it. Characterful and .... cute, but I don't see them often, and I think there's a good reason for it.
It's slow without the rhino, it does not deliver special weapons faster, it's not a function that you need from them when you have other choices for it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1436331.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1436331.page GMT Re:SM Captain and Retinue Options?
Space Marine Captains and Command Squads have their place.

Yes, I agree that most competitive Space Marine Builds center around a character and a Librarain, most if not all of my builds are that way.

However, if you are willing to forgo that one special character, a Command Squad and a Librarian is a pretty strong option. They provide another assault element to your list and have plenty of means to deliver them. You can put a few storm shields in there to bounce power weapons and powerfists, and you are giving FNP to the whole squad and the characters. Hell, I have even had success with Vulkan and a Captain in a command Squad, that is a lot of Assault Power to throw around, and having a Captain with a Master Crafted thunderhammer works wonders.

I usually have 2 rules for the command squad:

1. Never pay more then 200 points for the command squad, any higher then that and you are generally better off with a Terminator Assault Squad. This is before bikes of course.
2. Always plan how you will deliver them, a Land Raider Crusader filled with a Captain, another Character, and a Command Squad is never a waste. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1436387.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1436387.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? TH/SS are the way to go there.
Similarly, I have success with possessed...and they are in the same boat, not cost effective when you look at the other options in the dex.

Captain w/ Hammer is 130 points...that's 3 TH/SS termies.
They can't be instant killed, 3++ built in.
Captain has 3 attacks/1 for charge, the TH/SS have 6 base, 3 for charge. The double number of attacks makes up for the differing WSs and then some.

2+ armor is more reliable than 3+/FNP.

The only thing the Command Squad has going for it is the Special Weapon Access/Banner Access/and ability to sweep.
Now, if you over-weight those options, then yea, the command squad starts looking good.

But there are other options who are more durable, more combatty, and more economical for what you get.
The command squads needs to be lower than 200, which is really hard to get that much useful stuff on them at that point.

Biker or not, I'm not a fan of command squads due to the stuck squad size.

Ahem:
"As a long time Warhammer 40K player, I fully agree to disagree" ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1436495.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1436495.page GMT Re:SM Captain and Retinue Options?
Roll around in your Razorback, hop out and pump 8 S7 shots into something important. Hell the Captain could even have a Combi weapon or Hellfire rounds to add to the fun.

If you get assaulted, you still have a base 2 attacks and the Captain isn't a slouch.

EDIT: You also have access to the CC, but I'm still torn on if he's worth anything. If nothing else its a cool model.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1437626.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1437626.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? Rhino/razor makes them into a sort of counter-shooters as their combat prowess is so so if you are looking to keep points low.

If you are running a list low on available 'spots' for special weapons, the command squad can get you a bunch in a small package...which has its place.

Combat is secondary, and hence not of my concern, if it was primary and bikeless, that's where I think the squad fails.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1437693.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1437693.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? TDA with LCs with an assault term group in a LRR.

The Command Squad is 4 Plas in a Razorback. This unit hunts stuff that need killin good vs rapid fire.

Yeah, the captaion is not 'cost effective' or whatever, but the model is cool...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438086.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438086.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? SM codex otherwise lacks. It can even serve a minor role as counter-charge, if you pick up the Company Champion, while retaining special weapons saturation. If you want a CC ball-buster, go TH/SS or Assault Marines with a Chappy.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438149.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438149.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? OP: Are you dead set against using a Drop Pod?

4 of any special weapon at the right place at the right time can win a game!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438160.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438160.page GMT Re:SM Captain and Retinue Options? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438507.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438507.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? FNP... It's pretty good.

Obviously you'll need to play with them a bit to get a feel for them though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438926.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438926.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438972.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1438972.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options?
Command Squad should be shooty.
Combatty Units can be found else where, as stated Special Weapons are the workhorse of the army and you can gets lots from the Command Squad.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1439235.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1439235.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? Lysander with a decent sized command squad, banner, and storm bolters. At 24" this squad can lay down 2 reroll-able bolter shots a piece, move, and potentially assault in the same turn with +1A and FNP to finish off whatever they've been shooting. Lysander adds real punch to the unit in CC as well as the nasty reroll, and a terminator with FNP is sick.
The inspiration for this unit comes from those midrange firefights with Tau Fire Warriors. I feel like a unit set up like this could slaughter them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1440061.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1440061.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options?
I put the captain somewhere else, not with the suicide squad, and now with the new BA codex I can take them with any HQ!!

I know this is a super-expensive unit etc etc, but this is how I use them. Drop Pod, disembark into cover, shoot at MC, terminators, whatever. Now they are in cover, with feel no pain, and have to be dealt with because of the destructive power.

So I hope that gives you some ideas/perspective. They are super fun to use
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1440135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1440135.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1440139.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1440139.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options?
You'll only have 4 stormbolters in that squad so it seems like a waste of Lysander's rules.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1440146.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1440146.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? Lysanders' bolter drill works for the special ammo, why would you take stormbolters then?

Personally Gating Libby w/ sterguard is gimmicky, my triple plamsa cannoning solves that little issue.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1440403.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1440403.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options?
And yes plasma cannons kill deepstriking marines.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1441052.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1441052.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options?
It's spending more points for a less special unit. To be honest, it's been my experience that the GOI is best used last-ditch efforts to grab or contest objectives, if used at all.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1441264.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1441264.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options?
Oshova]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1441399.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1441399.page GMT SM Captain and Retinue Options? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1441943.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/285881/1441943.page GMT