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HQ:
• Marshal - 161
⁃ Thunder Hammer
⁃ Storm Shield
⁃ Artificer Armor
⁃ Jump pack
⁃ Frag Grenades

• Chaplain Grimaldus - 195

• Emperor's Champion - 140
⁃ Accept Any Challenge

Elite

• Dreadnought - 168
⁃ TL Lascannon
⁃ Missile Launcher
⁃ Venerable
⁃ Tank Hunters
⁃ Smoke

Troops

• Crusaders - 305
⁃ X10 Initiates
⁃ X10 Neophytes
⁃ Meltagun
⁃ Powerfist
⁃ Frag Grenades

• Crusaders - 478
⁃ X10 Initiates
⁃ Meltagun
⁃ Powerfist

-Land Raider Crusader
⁃ Blessed Hull
⁃ Smoke

Fast

• Assault Squad - 235
⁃ X10
⁃ Powerfist

Heavy

• Vindicator - 168
⁃ Power of the Machine Spirit
⁃ Xtra Armor
⁃ Dozer Blade
⁃ Smoke

1850
Let me know what you guys think!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286182/1440659.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286182/1440659.page GMT HQ's are very expensive.
You could take two cheap Chaplains plus the EC.
Moreover, the Vindicator is too expensive.
I'd squeeze in another one. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286182/1440906.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286182/1440906.page GMT HQ alone... which is a lot I feel for a game this size. Accept Any Challenge gets better and better the more models you take, so maybe take one of the HQ's and drop them? (I personally don't like Grimaldus as much but that's 100% me)

Also I'd think about splitting the big 20 man crusader squad into two squads of ten (five marines/scouts in each set). It will give you more troop choices to hold objectives, you can get another power fist and melta gun in and maybe gets some rhinos for them so they are not foot slogging across the field.

And I LOVE dreadnoughts but having only one standing out alone... I feel like it will draw a lot of fire and even with the venerable it will only take a weapon destroyed result to knock out the lascannon. After which you have very little range abilties. Granted they will probably shoot the landraider first but still. It's one weapon platform in a sea of little or no range.

I'd say take a second vindicator instead of the dreadnought. Drop one of the HQs so you can add two rhinos after splitting the huge squad. Spend the spare points on powerfists and meltaguns.

And meltabombs on the assault squad. At 2 points each they are a steal.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286182/1440930.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286182/1440930.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286182/1444327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286182/1444327.page GMT ld 10 failed to a stupid rhino tank shock two times, and both times they fled off the board. My armor saves were actually pretty good all day but I couldnt hit anything in cc. Grimaldus whiffed it two combats in a row one game. All in all not a good day, on a bright side I had a fun day : ) and won a blister pack for last place!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286182/1447134.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286182/1447134.page GMT BT over Tyranid any day, there are a few things in your army that I think you could do well with by changing, and some things that I think you got right. So I'm going to attempt to pick at yuor army in a constructive way and give you my opinions on what I'd do.

HQ: First of all good choice on the accept any challenge on the emperors champion, it's pretty much the only real option to take and it makes it so you don't need chaplains, keep this guy.

Chaplain grimaldus is not worth the points imo. I mean don't get me wrong but Helbrecht is soooo much better and he's cheaper. I mean what's not to like about him, he's got a 2+ save that's rerollable at a 6+ if you fail, he can have up to 8 attacks on the charge (all power weapon hits mind you), he's got frag grenades to attack the pesky cover units, he gives whatever unit he's attached to the ability to reroll their consolidate on casualty rolls, and tops it all off with a 4+ invuln and the ability to give your entire army a 10+ leadership.
If you're gonna use a special character I'd drop grimaldus for helbrecht.

The marshal, while it seems nice with a jump pack, cannot be placed in a transport and with his thunder hammer will always go last in combat, he may have an invuln save but it's only in close combat; thus not being in a transport and not having a 2+ save or invuln save to shooting makes him terribly vulnerable. I'd say drop this unit altogether.

Elite:
Venerable lascannon/missile dreads are the frickin bread and butter anti-tank of the black templars, always take this unit, BUT drop the smoke grenades. If you use them you can't shoot and they really don't do all that much. You're much better off just sticking him in cover and using a 4+ cover save. Save yourself the 3 points.

Also, elites are some of the black templars most powerful units, you really need more of them.

Troops:
Crusader squads are obviously a must as they're the only troops choice you have. What I don't like, however, is the way you use them. First of all your first squad is a short range footslogger. Yes you will get to move a d6" closer at the end of every turn most likely, but your squad isn't that durable and their range is bad, especially if you're moving. I suggest dropping the 10 neophytes from this squad and either A: give the squad a missile/lascannon if you're going to footslog, B: stick them in a rhino, C: keep the meltagun and powerfist, drop the squad down to 6 and stick them in a razorback. A: would be good if you want to stay cheap and hold an objective, B: would be preferable to get up close and personal, C: would be good to fill in the anti-tank spots that you're low on.

The second group you could stick with Helbrecht and the emperors champion. This will give you a very powerful close combat squad that your opponent will have to subdue before it reaches them, helbrecht also has frag grenades so buying them for the squad is unneccesary, same with crusader seals. Smoke once again is unnecessary, you'll want that assault cannon it's a powerful gun. You can even consider making it a normal land raider for those wonderful lascannons, this would also save you the points on 2 units but make it a smaller group. But even a squad of 8 crusaders is powerful with helbrecht and the EC.

Fast Attack:
I've never been a huge fan of assault squads, I'd rather spend the points on elites. But if you must buy them, consider spending the extra points on meltabombs, at 2 points each they are a steal for anti-armor.

Heavy: Vindicator, this unit is powerful against a ton of troops, but your infantry do that just fine. Perhaps switch it out for a predator annihilator?

Anyway, The list I'd have after picking yours apart would be...

HQ:
• Helbrecht - 175


• Emperor's Champion - 140
⁃ Accept Any Challenge

Elite

• Dreadnought - 165
⁃ TL Lascannon
⁃ Missile Launcher
⁃ Venerable
⁃ Tank Hunters

Troops

• Crusaders - 185
⁃ X10 Initiates
⁃ Meltagun
⁃ Lascannon

• Crusaders - 480
⁃ X10 Initiates
- X3 Neophytes
⁃ Meltagun
⁃ Powerfist

-Land Raider Crusader
⁃ Blessed Hull


Heavy

• Predator Annihilator - 145
⁃ lascannon sponsons

Thes changes would leave you with an extra 560 points which could be used in a number of different ways. At this point you would have... 1 open HQ, 2 open Elites, 1 open Heavy, 4 open Troops and 3 open Fast attack. Looks like we could use some more melee power in the army, maybe a little bit more anti infantry. The predator and dreadnought are great anti-tank as well but I always try to have atleast 3 in an army.

So here's how I would spend it.

A:
Land speeder typhoon = 70 (heavy bolter and typhoon launcher makes great anti infantry)
Land speeder (name escapes me) = 95 (multimelta/assault cannon makes great fast anti-tank/elites)
Assault squad x 10 w/meltabombs = 240
dreadnought with assault cannon/ccw = 105
A rhino for crusader squad 1 = 50

B: Land raider w 5 assault terminators = 455
Landspeeder x2 = 100

C: Reduce crusader squad 1 to 6 units and drop lascannon, stick them into razorback with lascannons = 11 more than original
Crusader squad x6, meltagun razorback with lascannons = 196
Crusader Squad x6, meltagun, razorback w/lascannon = 196
Assault Squad x6, w/1x power weapon and meltabombs = 154

Those are just 3 options, I think option C would probably be the smartest as it not only adds 3 units with twinlinked lascannons but also another 2 small quads of infantry and fast moving assault marines with some anti-tank capability.

Haha well I hope you liked my advice, I kinda rambled on and on but hey I just love templars.
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