<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Plasma and the IG"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Plasma and the IG IG lists on Dakka I notice that Plasma armed vets/CCS/PCS hardly ever make an appearance. Is there a reason why? I know 5e nerfed plasma but I would think the CCS order "Bring it down!" would have helped to mitigate that (unless TL'ing doesn't work with "get's hot!"). Is there any decent plasma build for the IG these days? (primarily asking as I have a dozen plasma gunners sitting around...)

A CCS with "bring it down" drops your chances of his plasma weilding squaddies turning themselves into crispy critters down to 1/54 per shot:

Roll a one 1/6, TL'd, * roll a one again 1/6, * Fail armor save 2/3 = 1/54

If you wanted to get crazy (or don't mind ridiculously expensive squads) you could throw a medic in which lowers those odds to 1/108.

I know Meltas are cheap and in the catbird seat atm due to mech being king, but certainly there is a role for Plasma too, right? Your thoughts?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449456.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449456.page GMT Re:Plasma and the IG CCS for melta tech. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449464.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449464.page GMT Plasma and the IG CCS I prefer as suicide melta and order bus for Autocannons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449605.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449605.page GMT Plasma and the IG I have One in a PIS actoualy [Old Model].
As for me not taking them, the units I concider giving them to are "Assault" units and the PG would prevent Firing them and Assualting in the same turn.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449616.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449616.page GMT Re:Plasma and the IG IMO

Absolutely nothing wrong with the CCS using plasma. Take advantage of that BS 4. I personally prefer them in a Chimera which takes away the orders bonus unless you debus. Sure you can put the medic in there or add carapace but I personally don't mind the losses (this will differ if you play that a failed leadership test inside a vehicle results in a destroyed unit) as the fire output is respectable. I would either have the CCS with the plasma and the PCS with the melta or the other way around, however maybe the CCS with the plasma and the debus the melta if needed and "bring it down" on the melta (to get that 75% hit) from the plasma CCS in the Chimera. Either way you have options that you can use when required. It depends a bit on the rest of the list and whether you need more TEQ killy power or anti-vehicle (got vendetta's in the list etc).

I have recently been playing against a lot of DS bugs where the plasma from the Chimera have been the stars.

Forum lists are fine, but use it as a guide. Sheep just end up in a kebab.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449644.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449644.page GMT Re:Plasma and the IG Beyond that, I find with the blatant MEHREENS MEHREENS MEHREENS bias in the metagame that taking plenty of plasma helps.

Even without plasma spam, though, Guard are like the anti-Marines; the amount of AP1-3 weaponry in our Heavy Support slots alone is ridiculous, and the sheer levels of dakka the rest of the force emits each turn means that once the mehreens are out of their METAL BAWKSES, they're fodder.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449650.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449650.page GMT Re:Plasma and the IG army. This is, of course, mainly because I'm fairly cheap and don't like the thought of buying stuff that I'll never use. Basically, I find they generally do well, but you do have to accept that you might only have one plasma gunner left in the squad by the end of the game. - It's very important, by the way, to ensure that you're using 3 different colours of dice for each gunner, you don't want to take more casualties from overheating than you need to.

When it comes down to it I find, a space marine squad just running out of a destroyed transport are going to be far more worried about 6 plasma gun shots pointing at them, than just another 3 melta guns.

Then again, I don't play in tournaments any more serious than our local club league. And you can't take a club league too seriously when there's a chance the Super-Grots show up possessing Mega Feel no Pain.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449664.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449664.page GMT Plasma and the IG CCS in a Chimera. That way I don't have to disembark to BID and can go MC/light vehicle hunting with almost contemptuous ease. I try and avoid targets that I can't BID on though, as suffering even 2 overheats practically halves the effectiveness of the squad.

My CCS have killed everything from Rhinos to Trygons in a single round of shooting this way. It's so much fun seeing your opponents face as they mouth 'HOW many twin-linked plasma shots?!'

L. Wrex]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449687.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449687.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I have a 4 plasma CCS in a Chimera. That way I don't have to disembark to BID and can go MC/light vehicle hunting with almost contemptuous ease. I try and avoid targets that I can't BID on though, as suffering even 2 overheats practically halves the effectiveness of the squad.

My CCS have killed everything from Rhinos to Trygons in a single round of shooting this way. It's so much fun seeing your opponents face as they mouth 'HOW many twin-linked plasma shots?!'

L. Wrex


Have you tried adding a plasma pistol to the Commander? It adds a shot, and he has the wounds to take an overheat or two unlike the rest of the squad.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449714.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449714.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I have a 4 plasma CCS in a Chimera. That way I don't have to disembark to BID and can go MC/light vehicle hunting with almost contemptuous ease. I try and avoid targets that I can't BID on though, as suffering even 2 overheats practically halves the effectiveness of the squad.

My CCS have killed everything from Rhinos to Trygons in a single round of shooting this way. It's so much fun seeing your opponents face as they mouth 'HOW many twin-linked plasma shots?!'

L. Wrex

You can't give a unit an order thats inside a vehicle, even if the unit is giving itself an order.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449982.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1449982.page GMT Plasma and the IG
kadun wrote:
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I have a 4 plasma CCS in a Chimera. That way I don't have to disembark to BID and can go MC/light vehicle hunting with almost contemptuous ease. I try and avoid targets that I can't BID on though, as suffering even 2 overheats practically halves the effectiveness of the squad.

My CCS have killed everything from Rhinos to Trygons in a single round of shooting this way. It's so much fun seeing your opponents face as they mouth 'HOW many twin-linked plasma shots?!'

L. Wrex

You can't give a unit an order thats inside a vehicle, even if the unit is giving itself an order.


Taken from a common-sense standpoint this is beyond silly. Why would a CCS disembark from a Chimera just to issue an order to itself? It just doesn't make sense. I play that you can make the embarked squad order itself from inside a Chimera, and no-one I've encountered since can see any sensical reason why I shouldn't be able to.

Furthermore, the codex states that a unit can attempt to issue an order to 'a single friendly non-vehicle unit' (the CCS) and the rule disallowing the issuing of orders from a transport is offset by the Mobile Command rule of Chimeras.

L. Wrex

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1450024.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1450024.page GMT Re:Plasma and the IG IG vet squads, but only at 2000 points or more.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1450146.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1450146.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
kadun wrote:
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I have a 4 plasma CCS in a Chimera. That way I don't have to disembark to BID and can go MC/light vehicle hunting with almost contemptuous ease. I try and avoid targets that I can't BID on though, as suffering even 2 overheats practically halves the effectiveness of the squad.

My CCS have killed everything from Rhinos to Trygons in a single round of shooting this way. It's so much fun seeing your opponents face as they mouth 'HOW many twin-linked plasma shots?!'

L. Wrex

You can't give a unit an order thats inside a vehicle, even if the unit is giving itself an order.


Taken from a common-sense standpoint this is beyond silly. Why would a CCS disembark from a Chimera just to issue an order to itself? It just doesn't make sense. I play that you can make the embarked squad order itself from inside a Chimera, and no-one I've encountered since can see any sensical reason why I shouldn't be able to.

Furthermore, the codex states that a unit can attempt to issue an order to 'a single friendly non-vehicle unit' (the CCS) and the rule disallowing the issuing of orders from a transport is offset by the Mobile Command rule of Chimeras.

L. Wrex



Except, the rules specifically sate that you CANNOT recieve orders while embarked....period.
It doesn't matter that it is the same squad giving and recieving the orders. Sure, you can give an order while in a Chimera, but you can't recieve an order unless you are outside....plain and simple, with no ifs, ands or buts.

Tactics only work if the rules allow for them to do so, otherwise my tactic would be for my 50 man blob of guardsmen to fly 48" with their free turboboost move, while shooting cover ignoring plamsa cannon shots from their eyes...which, by the way, is just as legal as recieving orders inside a Chimera ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1450211.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1450211.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Alerian wrote:
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
kadun wrote:
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I have a 4 plasma CCS in a Chimera. That way I don't have to disembark to BID and can go MC/light vehicle hunting with almost contemptuous ease. I try and avoid targets that I can't BID on though, as suffering even 2 overheats practically halves the effectiveness of the squad.

My CCS have killed everything from Rhinos to Trygons in a single round of shooting this way. It's so much fun seeing your opponents face as they mouth 'HOW many twin-linked plasma shots?!'

L. Wrex

You can't give a unit an order thats inside a vehicle, even if the unit is giving itself an order.


Taken from a common-sense standpoint this is beyond silly. Why would a CCS disembark from a Chimera just to issue an order to itself? It just doesn't make sense. I play that you can make the embarked squad order itself from inside a Chimera, and no-one I've encountered since can see any sensical reason why I shouldn't be able to.

Furthermore, the codex states that a unit can attempt to issue an order to 'a single friendly non-vehicle unit' (the CCS) and the rule disallowing the issuing of orders from a transport is offset by the Mobile Command rule of Chimeras.

L. Wrex



Except, the rules specifically sate that you CANNOT recieve orders while embarked....period.
It doesn't matter that it is the same squad giving and recieving the orders. Sure, you can give an order while in a Chimera, but you can't recieve an order unless you are outside....plain and simple, with no ifs, ands or buts.

Tactics only work if the rules allow for them to do so, otherwise my tactic would be for my 50 man blob of guardsmen to fly 48" with their free turboboost move, while shooting cover ignoring plamsa cannon shots from their eyes...which, by the way, is just as legal as recieving orders inside a Chimera


having 2 eyes, would those shots count as twin linked?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1450240.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1450240.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Alerian wrote:
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
kadun wrote:
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I have a 4 plasma CCS in a Chimera. That way I don't have to disembark to BID and can go MC/light vehicle hunting with almost contemptuous ease. I try and avoid targets that I can't BID on though, as suffering even 2 overheats practically halves the effectiveness of the squad.

My CCS have killed everything from Rhinos to Trygons in a single round of shooting this way. It's so much fun seeing your opponents face as they mouth 'HOW many twin-linked plasma shots?!'

L. Wrex

You can't give a unit an order thats inside a vehicle, even if the unit is giving itself an order.


Taken from a common-sense standpoint this is beyond silly. Why would a CCS disembark from a Chimera just to issue an order to itself? It just doesn't make sense. I play that you can make the embarked squad order itself from inside a Chimera, and no-one I've encountered since can see any sensical reason why I shouldn't be able to.

Furthermore, the codex states that a unit can attempt to issue an order to 'a single friendly non-vehicle unit' (the CCS) and the rule disallowing the issuing of orders from a transport is offset by the Mobile Command rule of Chimeras.

L. Wrex



Except, the rules specifically sate that you CANNOT recieve orders while embarked....period.
It doesn't matter that it is the same squad giving and recieving the orders. Sure, you can give an order while in a Chimera, but you can't recieve an order unless you are outside....plain and simple, with no ifs, ands or buts.

Tactics only work if the rules allow for them to do so, otherwise my tactic would be for my 50 man blob of guardsmen to fly 48" with their free turboboost move, while shooting cover ignoring plamsa cannon shots from their eyes...which, by the way, is just as legal as recieving orders inside a Chimera


Fair point. I'll concede on this, even though it does push the boundaries of 'realism' a little too far (in a futuristic table-top wargame )

I think my tactic is still sound though, it just means you have to be a little more careful with your disembarkation move to ensure TLOS etc.

L. Wrex]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1450940.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1450940.page GMT Re:Plasma and the IG
otherwise my tactic would be for my 50 man blob of guardsmen to fly 48" with their free turboboost move, while shooting cover ignoring plamsa cannon shots from their eyes...which, by the way, is just as legal as recieving orders inside a Chimera

having 2 eyes, would those shots count as twin linked?

sigged ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1451073.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1451073.page GMT Plasma and the IG
I mean, clustered plasma guns are still one of our finest weapons for taking out MCs, terminators, etc. so I've still definitely seen lists that contain SOME plasma as a contingency against these kinds of units.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1451966.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1451966.page GMT Plasma and the IG http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1465726.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1465726.page GMT Plasma and the IG IG. I have Vendettas/Hydras/Manticores/2c CCS (with 4 meltas) to deal with armor, and the plasma guns are fine against light armor when needed. I started with Melta in my vet squads but found myself simply wanting a bit more volume of fire from my low AP weapons.

I also run 0 Leman Russ hulls in my mech list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1465743.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1465743.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Caffran9 wrote:I run my veet squads with Plasma in my Mech IG. I have Vendettas/Hydras/Manticores/2c CCS (with 4 meltas) to deal with armor, and the plasma guns are fine against light armor when needed. I started with Melta in my vet squads but found myself simply wanting a bit more volume of fire from my low AP weapons.

I also run 0 Leman Russ hulls in my mech list.

That means you're doing it right ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1465764.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1465764.page GMT Plasma and the IG
If one of my deamon princes gets within 26" of a Chimera with a plasma CCS it's probably dead.

It works even better against tyranids who have no invo.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1466099.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1466099.page GMT Plasma and the IG MCs, both of which are very prevalent. I don't really see any other special weapon working as well in this role.

As for vets/CCS, if they are advancing to get objectives, they need the most versatile tool available, and meltas can handle anything. Sure, plasma is better against many targets, but it's helpless against others, and that's just not good enough. Melta is a legitimate threat to everything, and range isn't as much of an issue, as the vehicle is moving every turn anyway, so it's always at 12".

Add in the fact that plasma cost 50% more than melta, and the justification for plasma is even tougher to find.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1466127.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1466127.page GMT Plasma and the IG SM, CSM, and Necrons are the only races with solid Av13+ vehicles (Dreds, Land Raiders, Monoliths, etc). And in those cases, the plasma is going to be fantastic for spanking the Marines and/or Termies.

4 shots with melta, and you have a chance to make a few kills. 8 shots with plasma and you have a chance to break a squad. (Again, the exception to this is heavy armor, but a Manticore, Vendetta, or any number of very common options in our army can wreck Av14 pretty easily.)

There is absolutely no reason why a list shouldn't have a smattering of plasma, whether it be plasma vets/CCS, or a Executioner... you just need to have some.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1466390.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1466390.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Lt Lathrop wrote:There is absolutely no reason why a list shouldn't have a smattering of plasma, whether it be plasma vets/CCS, or a Executioner... you just need to have some.


Plasma....don't leave home without it!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1466882.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1466882.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Lt Lathrop wrote:The justification is 2x shots, or 2x range. The only thing melta is going to be able to do better is Av13+. Basically SM, CSM, and Necrons are the only races with solid Av13+ vehicles (Dreds, Land Raiders, Monoliths, etc). And in those cases, the plasma is going to be fantastic for spanking the Marines and/or Termies.

4 shots with melta, and you have a chance to make a few kills. 8 shots with plasma and you have a chance to break a squad. (Again, the exception to this is heavy armor, but a Manticore, Vendetta, or any number of very common options in our army can wreck Av14 pretty easily.)

There is absolutely no reason why a list shouldn't have a smattering of plasma, whether it be plasma vets/CCS, or a Executioner... you just need to have some.


You're forgetting the other benefit of melta: instant death. Comes into play more often than you'd expect.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1466922.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1466922.page GMT Re:Plasma and the IG CCS, together with a medic and carapace armour, mounted in a chimera. I use them in this way because they kill themselves surprisingly fast when rapid firing, and they do that a lot. Three plasma guns with a medic and carapce armour will put out more shots in the long run than simply 4 plasma guns (Without orders! That is just an assumption, go ahead and prove me wrong.) The carapace armour is mostly to avoid dying to flamers and bolters if the chimera bites it, because if they are in rapid fire distance of marines, the marines can also rapid fire at them - without cover they die right away. The gunners rapid fire a lot because I'm playing almost entirely against very agressive MEQ's in my FLGS, so I use them mainly for gunning down advancing troops in power armour and the occational daemon or dreadnaught when they are stupid enough to deep strike in the wrong place. When rapid firing, they do put out twice the number of shots than meltaguns do, at only a 50% price increase. So far the medic is a good investment, since he has saved numerous of unfortunate plasma-gunners' lives.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1467011.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1467011.page GMT Plasma and the IG AP of 1.
Not really relevant against non-vehicles, but delightful against AV-models.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1467614.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1467614.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Grimaldi wrote:
Lt Lathrop wrote:The justification is 2x shots, or 2x range. The only thing melta is going to be able to do better is Av13+. Basically SM, CSM, and Necrons are the only races with solid Av13+ vehicles (Dreds, Land Raiders, Monoliths, etc). And in those cases, the plasma is going to be fantastic for spanking the Marines and/or Termies.

4 shots with melta, and you have a chance to make a few kills. 8 shots with plasma and you have a chance to break a squad. (Again, the exception to this is heavy armor, but a Manticore, Vendetta, or any number of very common options in our army can wreck Av14 pretty easily.)

There is absolutely no reason why a list shouldn't have a smattering of plasma, whether it be plasma vets/CCS, or a Executioner... you just need to have some.


You're forgetting the other benefit of melta: instant death. Comes into play more often than you'd expect.

So 6-8 plasma shots versus 3-4 melta shots... means I can kill, 8 max single wound models... or 4 max 2 wound models... where as, melta can kill 4 max single wound models, and 4 double wound models, so long as they are T4 or less. So in any situation except where you are facing 3+ wound models, that have less than T4... plasma is still better.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1468992.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1468992.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Lt Lathrop wrote:The justification is 2x shots, or 2x range. The only thing melta is going to be able to do better is Av13+. Basically SM, CSM, and Necrons are the only races with solid Av13+ vehicles (Dreds, Land Raiders, Monoliths, etc). And in those cases, the plasma is going to be fantastic for spanking the Marines and/or Termies.

Ignoring AP1 = not realizing where the real value of melta resides = fail.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1469308.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1469308.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Lt Lathrop wrote:
Grimaldi wrote:
Lt Lathrop wrote:The justification is 2x shots, or 2x range. The only thing melta is going to be able to do better is Av13+. Basically SM, CSM, and Necrons are the only races with solid Av13+ vehicles (Dreds, Land Raiders, Monoliths, etc). And in those cases, the plasma is going to be fantastic for spanking the Marines and/or Termies.

4 shots with melta, and you have a chance to make a few kills. 8 shots with plasma and you have a chance to break a squad. (Again, the exception to this is heavy armor, but a Manticore, Vendetta, or any number of very common options in our army can wreck Av14 pretty easily.)

There is absolutely no reason why a list shouldn't have a smattering of plasma, whether it be plasma vets/CCS, or a Executioner... you just need to have some.


You're forgetting the other benefit of melta: instant death. Comes into play more often than you'd expect.

So 6-8 plasma shots versus 3-4 melta shots... means I can kill, 8 max single wound models... or 4 max 2 wound models... where as, melta can kill 4 max single wound models, and 4 double wound models, so long as they are T4 or less. So in any situation except where you are facing 3+ wound models, that have less than T4... plasma is still better.


Against nids Melta can be valuable for killing the 3 wound t4 warriors which will get you more bang for your buck.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1469373.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1469373.page GMT Plasma and the IG
With the plasma gun you get good against heavy non-vehicle and cruddy against most vehicles, and with the melta you get okay against heavy non-vehicle and good against vehicles (for cheaper, to boot). Plus, lots of stuff can help with things plama guns are good against, but there generally aren't as many good alternatives to melta.

of course, if you're using them specifically to take down things that plasma is good against, then all well and good, but there's a reason people don't always just plasma spam everything anymore.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1469376.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1469376.page GMT Plasma and the IG
With everyone and their mother going more and more mechanized (Blood Angels players apparently dispensing with their badass troops to spam razorbacks and predators, and depending on whether this Spearhead expansion will have a troop-element), meltas will be even more crucial. That's not to say that the only special weapons I take are meltas, I have an unhealthy obsession with flamers. If we're talking Marines in cover, a flamer will outperform a BS4 rapid-firing plasmagun if you can cover at least 3 (if 4+ cover) or 5 (if 5+) models. My favorite unit in the army is my platoon command squad with 4 flamers. The amount of devastation this 50-point unit can inflict is outrageous.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1469471.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1469471.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Terminus wrote:
Lt Lathrop wrote:The justification is 2x shots, or 2x range. The only thing melta is going to be able to do better is Av13+. Basically SM, CSM, and Necrons are the only races with solid Av13+ vehicles (Dreds, Land Raiders, Monoliths, etc). And in those cases, the plasma is going to be fantastic for spanking the Marines and/or Termies.

Ignoring AP1 = not realizing where the real value of melta resides = fail.

The real value of melta? You mean, killing Av13 and Av14? The one thing I already mentioned plasma couldn't do? I am pretty sure that as an IG player, I have a lot more options for killing Av13 and Av14 in my army than I do ways to get lots of single shots against squads with Sv3+ or Sv2+. Vendetta, with 3x TL Lascannon is a great example of, ways we can take out tanks... from 4' away, without needing a melta suicide squad. We have a ton of S10 ordinance artillery weapons you can pick from too. Also plain lascannon, admittedly not the most effective way to take out Av14, are a dime a dozen in IG lists. However, plasmaguns are basically the only way to achieve volume of AP2 shots in our army. Sure we could use plasma cannon, but you will never be able to do as much damage with a small blast, and as squads get smaller, small blasts become less effective. Plasma, as I said, is simply twice as effective at taking out heavy infantry as melta is. Sure melta can be used to take down heavy infantry... but plasma can also be used to take down light vehicles. Melta isn't best for infantry, plasma isn't best for vehicles. The point was... you still can't leave home without a good portion of plasma, no more than you can leave home without a way to pop Av14 (whether it be melta or otherwise).

"Ignoring melta is only good against vehicles, and armies aren't made of only vehicles = not realizing where the real value of plasma resides = fail."
See? I can do that too... doesn't mean anything.

Norade wrote:
Lt Lathrop wrote:
Grimaldi wrote:
Lt Lathrop wrote:The justification is 2x shots, or 2x range. The only thing melta is going to be able to do better is Av13+. Basically SM, CSM, and Necrons are the only races with solid Av13+ vehicles (Dreds, Land Raiders, Monoliths, etc). And in those cases, the plasma is going to be fantastic for spanking the Marines and/or Termies.

4 shots with melta, and you have a chance to make a few kills. 8 shots with plasma and you have a chance to break a squad. (Again, the exception to this is heavy armor, but a Manticore, Vendetta, or any number of very common options in our army can wreck Av14 pretty easily.)

There is absolutely no reason why a list shouldn't have a smattering of plasma, whether it be plasma vets/CCS, or a Executioner... you just need to have some.


You're forgetting the other benefit of melta: instant death. Comes into play more often than you'd expect.

So 6-8 plasma shots versus 3-4 melta shots... means I can kill, 8 max single wound models... or 4 max 2 wound models... where as, melta can kill 4 max single wound models, and 4 double wound models, so long as they are T4 or less. So in any situation except where you are facing 3+ wound models, that have less than T4... plasma is still better.


Against nids Melta can be valuable for killing the 3 wound t4 warriors which will get you more bang for your buck.

Yea, and that is pretty much the only example I could think of too... so when I go fight that list made of nothing but warriors... I will make sure to pack a lot of melta. Wait, no I won't, I'll blow them away with Manticore/Basilisk/Lascannon fire... which every IG commander has plenty of.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1469944.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1469944.page GMT Plasma and the IG ccs, loaded up with plasma and a medic and mounted in chimera. I have two plasma gunners waiting in the wings to possibly replace the medics. They've proven themselves by dealing with rampaging CC termies and nobz. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1470321.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1470321.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
Fair point. I'll concede on this, even though it does push the boundaries of 'realism' a little too far (in a futuristic table-top wargame )

L. Wrex


What does realism have to do with it? It's a game mechanic (ie rule).They do not have to be based in reality.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1470359.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1470359.page GMT Plasma and the IG http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1470777.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1470777.page GMT Plasma and the IG
Lt Lathrop wrote:
Terminus wrote:
Lt Lathrop wrote:The justification is 2x shots, or 2x range. The only thing melta is going to be able to do better is Av13+. Basically SM, CSM, and Necrons are the only races with solid Av13+ vehicles (Dreds, Land Raiders, Monoliths, etc). And in those cases, the plasma is going to be fantastic for spanking the Marines and/or Termies.

Ignoring AP1 = not realizing where the real value of melta resides = fail.

The real value of melta? You mean, killing Av13 and Av14? The one thing

And another fail. The value of meltaguns is not the additional die to penetrate, it's the AP1. That +1 on the damage chart makes all the difference against ALL vehicles, not just AV13-14. If you're just looking at chances to penetrate, you are missing half the picture. But yes, you can't just rely on meltas to kill everything in their army, which is why I mentioned all those things like flamers/executioners/vendettas/manticores/demo charges/et al that kill heavy infantry as well or far better than the expensive overheating plasmaguns.

That said, I do like taking three plasma warriors along with my Inquisitor. They get the gun for 5 points cheaper and get targeters for free, it's a steal.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1471171.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/286831/1471171.page GMT