Jayden63 wrote:For me personally, I hate the whole concept behind the deamon codex, from a fluff standpoint.

I just can't see the chaotic denizens of the warp banding together and going out to pick on the rest of the universe.

Back in Chaos 3.5 the deamons were ripped from the warp by their chaos overlords and forced to work for them. Much better implimentation and needed boost to make Chaos more than just spiky marines.

Sadly, thanks to a total **** direction that the newest Chaos codex took, my loathing for the Deamon codex is only amplified.

I'm not the only one who feels this way. It could be why the Deamon codex isn't popular. Chaos players feel a little bit of betrayal every time we look at it.

Xca|iber wrote:Chaos Daemons are amazing if you always roll well. Like my friend, who almost never mishaps (he can deep strike his units into incredibly small areas, even if he scatters its like 2"). He also rolls 3-5 6's whenever he uses a rending weapon

But yeah, Chaos Daemons is solid, but the metal models and stuff, and the totally different play-style may scare people away.

MagicJuggler wrote:As mentioned, they are a random army. You have to split your army in two halves, and have a 1 in 3 chance you get the wrong half. You Drop Pod in, without the insurance of Drop Pods against mishaps, or bonuses to reserves to allow for reliable reinforcement (contrast with Tyranid Spore armies, or Blood Angels, even Drop Pod Marines with Tigurius). Your units beat face in close combat, against infantry. Only problem is 5th edition makes it impossible to hide in close combats anymore (so no more "Kill a unit, consolidate into another unit" fun associated with 4th edition), and your anti-tank is rather unreliable too; vehicles got a lot tougher after all and where Bolt of Change was possible of penetrating and killing a Land Raider in 4th edition (as AP 1 turned glances to penetrating hits), and you could glance a vehice to death because of the damage charts, this isn't the case anymore. Chaos forbid you come across a Raider Rock. Finally, half the codex is utterly useless. Beasts of Nurgle? Daemonettes? Furies? Who takes this gak?

As it stands, the *best* (as in closest to a decent army) setup you can come across is Plaguebearers for scoring, max Fiends (Because their insane threat radius, Hit and Run, and crapton of metric attacks give you one of the few reliable ways to deal with vehicles) and 4 Chariot Heralds, either of Slaanesh or Tzeentch, with Flesh Hounds filling the remainder of points.

mrwittwer wrote:

MagicJuggler wrote:As mentioned, they are a random army. You have to split your army in two halves, and have a 1 in 3 chance you get the wrong half. You Drop Pod in, without the insurance of Drop Pods against mishaps, or bonuses to reserves to allow for reliable reinforcement (contrast with Tyranid Spore armies, or Blood Angels, even Drop Pod Marines with Tigurius). Your units beat face in close combat, against infantry. Only problem is 5th edition makes it impossible to hide in close combats anymore (so no more "Kill a unit, consolidate into another unit" fun associated with 4th edition), and your anti-tank is rather unreliable too; vehicles got a lot tougher after all and where Bolt of Change was possible of penetrating and killing a Land Raider in 4th edition (as AP 1 turned glances to penetrating hits), and you could glance a vehice to death because of the damage charts, this isn't the case anymore. Chaos forbid you come across a Raider Rock. Finally, half the codex is utterly useless. Beasts of Nurgle? Daemonettes? Furies? Who takes this gak?

As it stands, the *best* (as in closest to a decent army) setup you can come across is Plaguebearers for scoring, max Fiends (Because their insane threat radius, Hit and Run, and crapton of metric attacks give you one of the few reliable ways to deal with vehicles) and 4 Chariot Heralds, either of Slaanesh or Tzeentch, with Flesh Hounds filling the remainder of points.

This is very extreme. And daemonettes are used, just needed in large numbers. Beasts of Nurgle are used in Epidemus lists. And well furies suck but every book has their bad points. All most all of the other units in the Chaos Daemons book are used only the beat of nurgle and furies are rarely used.

I have to ask if you play chaos daemons or not because your supposedly "useable" list is nothing like what i have seen anywhere.

MagicJuggler wrote:
I fight Chaos Daemons a lot. Do tell me how your Epidemius list deals with mechspam. Or how you're getting your Beasts into melee with the elements of my army that do count.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:I love the look of the army. I like the chaos fluff. But its so damn expensive. .... I wrote up a 2000 point demons army, and it will cost me over 700 dollars. Expensive, pewter, etc.

Sanctjud wrote:Well, Grey Knights are generally 'fail' vs. Daemons, so by extension the Daemons are pretty 'fail' in the big picture .

Sanctjud wrote:Control is not something you always have and it's a game of resource management rather than the processes normal armies go through.

ductvader wrote:They were okay...definitely better than now...but they were made for 3rd.

Sanctjud wrote:@Nurglitch:
Forgive me I was not clear with my last post, I had meant you have less to work with 100% of the time, where-as other armies can choose to be at 100% on the board.

So for daemons players they have to manage less at the start all the time compared to most other armies.

MagicJuggler wrote:Really, your *best* AT is massed Fiends of Slaanesh.

MagicJuggler wrote:Mass Fiends work against anything short of Land Raiders, which Daemons effectively fold against, for the melta-weapons that Marines most likely *do* have now have a very obvious target if you bring the Grinders.

MagicJuggler wrote:Mass Fiends work against anything short of Land Raiders, which Daemons effectively fold against, for the melta-weapons that Marines most likely *do* have now have a very obvious target if you bring the Grinders.

mrwittwer wrote:

MagicJuggler wrote:Mass Fiends work against anything short of Land Raiders, which Daemons effectively fold against, for the melta-weapons that Marines most likely *do* have now have a very obvious target if you bring the Grinders.

Landraiders are not that big of a deal. At least not for me. I run with 4 winged monsterous creatures. When i fight landraiders, they run scared. But there is a simple enough solution to those who dont run Daemonzilla lists. Since a landraider is really only a threat due to what it carries, simply coax the soliders inside out of the landraider. Once that is killed a landraider posses little threat.

MagicJuggler wrote:

mrwittwer wrote:

MagicJuggler wrote:Mass Fiends work against anything short of Land Raiders, which Daemons effectively fold against, for the melta-weapons that Marines most likely *do* have now have a very obvious target if you bring the Grinders.

Landraiders are not that big of a deal. At least not for me. I run with 4 winged monsterous creatures. When i fight landraiders, they run scared. But there is a simple enough solution to those who dont run Daemonzilla lists. Since a landraider is really only a threat due to what it carries, simply coax the soliders inside out of the landraider. Once that is killed a landraider posses little threat.

At 2000 points, if I see a Land Raider, I expect to see two, either of the Crusader or Redeemer variety. They carry Thunder Hammer+Storm Shield Terminators, and either Vulkan, a Null Zone Librarian, or both. Add some Speeders, and either Razorbacks/Rhinos trailing behind them, and it gets mean really quickly.

KingCracker wrote:I know for me personally, I think Demons should stay in Fantasy. They dont have a place in 40k. In a Chaos list MAYBE. But thats just me

Belphegor wrote:I don't mind skittles.
I just wish for the days of animosity, offsetting the practicality of candy-bagging.

schadenfreude wrote:Deamons are expensive, thus you just are not going to see any lower income players taking deamons.

If you choose Nurgle or Tzeentch then plaguebearers and horrors are expensive metal models.

If you choose Khorne or Slaanesh then fiends and bloodcrushers are expensive models.

gardeth wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Deamons are expensive, thus you just are not going to see any lower income players taking deamons.

If you choose Nurgle or Tzeentch then plaguebearers and horrors are expensive metal models.

If you choose Khorne or Slaanesh then fiends and bloodcrushers are expensive models.

You gotta get creative! Gors make great plaguebearers and dryads make awesome pink horrors. For fiends I bought a box goblin spider riders, cut the heads off the spiders and add damonotte torsos/heads/arms to make spider centaurs. 10 Fiends for $50

For Blood Crushers I bet Chaos Knights might fit the bill.

Im just not a big fan of people not getting to play what they want cause of $$$.

schadenfreude wrote:

gardeth wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Deamons are expensive, thus you just are not going to see any lower income players taking deamons.

If you choose Nurgle or Tzeentch then plaguebearers and horrors are expensive metal models.

If you choose Khorne or Slaanesh then fiends and bloodcrushers are expensive models.

You gotta get creative! Gors make great plaguebearers and dryads make awesome pink horrors. For fiends I bought a box goblin spider riders, cut the heads off the spiders and add damonotte torsos/heads/arms to make spider centaurs. 10 Fiends for $50

For Blood Crushers I bet Chaos Knights might fit the bill.

Im just not a big fan of people not getting to play what they want cause of $$$.

Chaos knights will look too much like Chaos knights, and they are too small for the correct sized base to use for a blood crusher. If you want to get creative buy a box of killer kans and combine it with a blood letter to create 3 mechanical/deamon hybrids where the blood letters are partially encased in a mechanical exoskeleton with drill bits and saw blades.