Latest posts for the thread "Are Sternguard a waste?"

Are Sternguard a waste?

Nightsbane — GMT

Just wondering what some of you all thought. They are pretty expensive vs a tactical squad, and have the exact same base stats. From my first few games I don't really find their special ammunition to be of much use due to low weapon strength.

Thoughts about them?

Are Sternguard a waste?

nosferatu1001 — GMT

HELL NO

Dont like a monstrous creature? its gone )just number of wounds do that)

and so on. They may be expensive but they pack a hell of a punch.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Monster Rain — GMT

I don't think they're bad. I just don't think they add up to other elite choices in the Codex.

I'll take Terminators and Dreadnoughts over Sternguard every time!

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Captain Jack — GMT

Bolters wounding on 2+, yes please. Minimal number of points for a combi weapon, yes please. Cheap heavy weapons too, great stuff! I never leave home with less than 15 in my Cantor or Vulkan list. 5 with 2 melta combi, 5 with 2 HBolters and 5 with 2 MMeltas make a nice defensive brick which are surprisingly good in combat by the addition of a power fist. Great for reaping anything with a toughness, and they keep vehicles outside the 12 inch melta killzone allowing my faster units to flank. I think they are one of the best units in the marine book.

You would never need to fire normal ammo, great for dealing with hordes. I normally back them up with tacs carrying lascannons and a squad of some type of assault marines depending on how many points I've spent.

Are Sternguard a waste?

The Watcher — GMT

Nightsbane, the answer is NO. i feel that this needs no explaination.

Are Sternguard a waste?

kaptaink — GMT

They are indeed good, just don't think they are some kind of power house that you only need five to win a game. Make sure you beef the squad up a bit, as at the end of the day they are just as easy to kill as a normal Marine.

Also, don't take the heavy weapons in the squad (HF is debatable as they are the only ones that get it) as it replaces what you pay all those points for. Combi-Weapons are great, I'd do like a squad of ten with six (IMO I'm not some kind of guide-writing-tactical-genius).

They really shine with Pedro or, if you want to get really cheeky put Lysander in the squad. Re-roll to hits, or count-as scoring? Your choice.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Darkvoidof40k — GMT

Nightsbane wrote:Just wondering what some of you all thought. They are pretty expensive vs a tactical squad, and have the exact same base stats. From my first few games I don't really find their special ammunition to be of much use due to low weapon strength.

Thoughts about them?

I took out a Nightbringer in one turn of rapid-firing hellfire, with about 7 or 10.

Optimised Pedro list, atleast 10 or more in there with whatnot upgrades.

IMO, best in Vulcan list: several combi-flamers and meltas and some heavy flamers, all in a pod.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Nightsbane — GMT

how are you getting 2+ hits?

Also what is meant by the "vulcan" list that keeps getting mentioned. New player, not familiar with the term.

To surmise, I know that I may not have had them equipped correctly, because they seemed to not function much different than a tactical squad when I used them.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Dedrith — GMT

Simply put, they are my favorite thing in the Space Marine Codex.

Are Sternguard a waste?

nosferatu1001 — GMT

He said *wounding* on a 2+

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Monster Rain — GMT

Nightsbane wrote:
Also what is meant by the "vulcan" list that keeps getting mentioned. New player, not familiar with the term.

A list that includes Vulkan H'estan. It makes all your flamers, meltas and Thunder Hammers twin-linked and master crafted, respectively.

It is made of awesome.

Are Sternguard a waste?

sennacherib — GMT

Sterngaurd equal win. I love these guys. try putting a pair of las cannons into a squad of them and you get a devestator squad that has 2 attacks each in melee and can actually still fight very effectively against troops.
one of the best shooting units marines have. versitle. the no cover save rounds are priceless.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Nightsbane — GMT

thanks for the info.

how are you figuring the 2+ to wound?

Are Sternguard a waste?

Corrode — GMT

Sternguard have four different options for 'special ammunition' which lets them do different things - wounding on a 2+ being one of them. It's in your Codex. If you haven't noticed it yet then that's probably why you were underwhelmed by them.

Are Sternguard a waste?

BobTheChainsaw — GMT

They have AP3 bolters, 30" AP4 bolters, bolters that wound on a 2+, and bolters that ignore cover saves. What more could you want?

Are Sternguard a waste?

Nurglitch — GMT

Nightsbane wrote:Just wondering what some of you all thought. They are pretty expensive vs a tactical squad, and have the exact same base stats. From my first few games I don't really find their special ammunition to be of much use due to low weapon strength.

Thoughts about them?

This post contains a falsehood that needs to be corrected: Sternguard are Veteran Space Marines, like Vanguard, Terminator, etc, and so have +1A and +1Ld.

If you don't have Captain Sicarius, then that Ld9 makes a difference when splitting into Combat Squads.

The problem I see with Vulkan, Pedro, and Lysander is that their Chapter Tactics really maximizes the Sternguard's weakness in assault by replacing Combat Tactics. While they're twice as good as Tactical Marines when they've been assaulted, they're only comparable to Chaos Space Marines or Grey Hunters that have failed their Counter-Attack Leadership test, and while in combat they can't use their Special Ammunition.

Incidentally the AP3 ammunition sucks, since it has Gets Hot! That rule is a good trade off for Plasma, but not cheap imitation Inferno Bolts. The version that ignores cover is awesome though.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Black Blow Fly — GMT

They are twice as good if you take Kantor. They have some neat options beside the special ammo as well. I like them with two lascannons & a power fist at the rear providing a solid anchor.

G

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Locclo — GMT

Sternguard are awesome. They are the one unit I regret not having in my Space Wolves armies (though to be fair, Wolves have plenty of extra gubbins that make up for it). And incidentally, read the codex entry - they do, in fact, have four different types of special ammunition that can basically take down anything in the game.

Dragonfire Bolts - 24", S4, AP5, Rapid Fire, Ignores Cover (which are fantastic against Guardsmen or Orks in cover...and Orks are almost always in cover from special gear/rules)
Hellfire Rounds - 24", SX, AP5, Rapid Fire, Poisoned 2+ (need a monstrous creature or something with T5+ to die? 20 rapid fire shots will do the trick)
Kraken Bolts - 30" S4, AP4, Rapid Fire (great if you fight something that has a 4+ save, say Tau and the like. Plus, 30" range is great if you're holding the line)
Vengeance Rounds - 18" S4, AP3, Rapid Fire, Gets Hot! (which are great anti-marine - even with Gets Hot!, it only happens once in 6 times, and then they have a 3+ save)

In short, Sternguard are among the most versatile, deadly units in the game.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Fiend — GMT

I've been playing with 5 sternguards, and haven't seen them as effective as I wanted. The shots that hit though are awesome. For this reason, I plan to max out the squad, with some combi-weapons too so they can all still use their ammo.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Darkvoidof40k — GMT

Fiend wrote:I've been playing with 5 sternguards, and haven't seen them as effective as I wanted. The shots that hit though are awesome. For this reason, I plan to max out the squad, with some combi-weapons too so they can all still use their ammo.

If you bought the £20 box set with 5 models as I think you have, mistake. Just get a tactical squad, and after a few years you'll have enough awesome stuff in your bitz box to make them real veterans

But tbh, they're just so much less effective without Pedro or Vulcan. Vulcan lists often trade them out for another Ironclad (standard, 5 TH/SS termies in LR, Ironclad with CCW + Hammer, and either 10 sternguard as I would have or another Ironclad).

Pedro makes them more formidable objective getters, and essentially will replace your tactical squads almost completely, so usually in say, a 1750pt game or thereabouts, pedro lists will probably have 5-10 sniper/cloak scouts for objective sitting, one tac squad possibly, and one or two ten man sternguard units. And Pedro, obviously, with everything else in your army.

Also, the CC problem is made better in two possible ways - Vulcan, he's still very nice in an assault - hard to take down, strong offensively, just watch out for instant death on him. Give the sergeant a PF or PW (but definitely still a boltgun/combi weapon). Or, a libby, who can gate of infinity them out of the CC and with avenger, they just shoot up whatever assaulted them, probably for a second time.

So, to save money, you will tbh have to buy about three commander box's for the combi weapons, I would put the three melta's and three flamers you get from that set on them, + maybe the two combi-plasmas, but most likely not. Then, almost standard, especially in vulcan lists, is two heavy flamers. One at the least. Tyranids hate that, Guard hate that, Orks hate that, scout marines hate that, Daemons? hate that, large squads hate that. Plus, if you do have aforementioned vulcan and combi flamers and heavy flamers, fire them into a squad then charge. Three attacks a model is nasty, plus possible Pedro/Vulcan/Libby.

Are Sternguard a waste?

wuestenfux — GMT

In my vanilla SM army, I never considered Sternguard as they are too specialized for my liking.
I prefer Terminators and Dreadnoughts.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Darkvoidof40k — GMT

wuestenfux wrote:In my vanilla SM army, I never considered Sternguard as they are too specialized for my liking.
I prefer Terminators and Dreadnoughts.

Amen to that!

Are Sternguard a waste?

Ed_Bodger — GMT

I love running 9 sternguard in a drop pod with a librarian using Null Zone just watch what happens to a deamon Prince when you use Null Zone + Hellfire Rounds it is fantastic or use Vengence Rounds if it has power armour suddenly you have no armour save and re-rolling invulnerable saves. Add Som Combi meltas and you can pop Heavy armour no problem. The only drawback with Sternguard compared to Terminators IMO is that they have no invulnerable save. If they had two wounds they would be OP but amazing.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Sanctjud — GMT

@Ed_Bodger:
Why 9 sternguard? You are one model away from gaining some flexibility with the ability to split the squad when they come in to maximize the spread of pain.

Else, I agree with Wuestenfux, they are Specialized and Pricey MEQs.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Ed_Bodger — GMT

Becuse 10 + a Librarian wouldn't fit into a drop pod. Also I don't want to combat squad them as I want them to drop on an objective/something I want dead and have the numbers to stay alive. If I want to move them I use gate of Infinity

Are Sternguard a waste?

Nurglitch — GMT

Hey Ed, you may want to check your copy of Codex: Space Marines. Their Drop Pods have larger capacity than the cheap knock-offs used by the Space Wolves and the Blood Angels. You could fit ten Sternguard and two Librarians in a single pod.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Ed_Bodger — GMT

????? Sits in stunned silence with head in hands shaking it slowly from side to side ??????

Thanks for telling me that I read the transport capacity in my SW dex and assumed it would be the same for vanilla marines without actually reading it. (Never used drop pods till fairly recently).

You sir may have revolutionised my army

Are Sternguard a waste?

wuestenfux — GMT

Playing a Sternguard heavy army is a different story.

2 Librarians with gate, nullzone
2 or 3 Sternguard units with combi-meltas in Pods,
2 or 3 Tacticals in Pods.

The first army of this type was posted by Stelek.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Sanctjud — GMT

Meh... people run too many plasma-cannon like weaponry in my area for that list to actually... 'take flight'...

Are Sternguard a waste?

Joetaco — GMT

i love sternguard. Fielding them with kantor they win. end of story

Are Sternguard a waste?

wuestenfux — GMT

Sanctjud wrote:Meh... people run too many plasma-cannon like weaponry in my area for that list to actually... 'take flight'...

Well, the Sternguard Vets require the Pods to provide cover.
Otherwise, plasma cannons take them apart.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Surtur — GMT

wuestenfux wrote:In my vanilla SM army, I never considered Sternguard as they are too specialized for my liking.
I prefer Terminators and Dreadnoughts.

...WHAT?

How is 4 different shots specialized compared to a Terminator whose job is run up and punch it dead?

EDIT: Also, give that Libby the 5++ psycher power. Out of the drop pod they get 3+ armor, 4+ cover and 5++ invul. Nothing's gonna deny them a save.

Are Sternguard a waste?

wuestenfux — GMT

Terminators have storm bolters and are more durable than Marines in power armor.
Sternguard Vets die like normal Marines but are much more expensive.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Sanctjud — GMT

wuestenfux wrote:
Sanctjud wrote:Meh... people run too many plasma-cannon like weaponry in my area for that list to actually... 'take flight'...

Well, the Sternguard Vets require the Pods to provide cover.
Otherwise, plasma cannons take them apart.

Oh sorry, I had meant the plasma cannon comment to be directed at the GOI usage.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Nurglitch — GMT

Plus if Librarians have Force Dome, then you have to choose between Null Zone and Gate of Infinity...

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

hcordes — GMT

I would take ten Stern over ten Termies any day of the week. The Termies while good, are just too expensive and you don't get enough options. I can almost get two six man stern, WITH Razorbacks, as ONE squad of Termies.

I recently played a game against Nids who had SIX Carinfexs, I used a bridge as a choke point, I left a Rhino on the middle of the bridge and made his Fexs destroy it in Close Combat, I got two turns of shooting through cover, and one turn of 2+ to wound, and same turn, was able to get two ten man tact. squads able to open up with bolters, The Stern on their own took out one and wounded another twice. I got some help when his plasma spit scattered right back on his face and wounded himself. But then the massed amounts of bolters anchored by the Stern squad saw all three Fexs dead before they could make it to CC.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Grey Templar — GMT

Sternguard are good in higher point games.

They are good because they have an answer for everything.

high toughness models? Helfire rounds, wound on a 2+

MEQs? Vengence rounds for AP3 goodness(who says 1K sons only get ap3 bolters)

GEQs in cover? Dragonfire bolts for ignoring cover and most likely ignoring armor awsomeness and cheap combi-flamers

High toughness models at long range? Kraken bolts for Str5 AP4 snipeing.

High AV vehicles? cheap combi-meltas without a drop in special ammo effectivness.

they may die to the things reqular SMs do, but they can get transports to even the odds.

effective unit for the cost. more versitile then terminators.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Surtur — GMT

Nurglitch wrote:Plus if Librarians have Force Dome, then you have to choose between Null Zone and Gate of Infinity...

Then you have to fear flamestorm cannons or their equivalent.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Grey Templar — GMT

there is no other AP3 flamer to the best of my knowledge.

Are Sternguard a waste?

VikingScott — GMT

Sobs can make flamers AP1 with a prayer

Are Sternguard a waste?

Darkvoidof40k — GMT

VikingScott wrote:Sobs can make flamers AP1 with a prayer

Well while they stand around chanting, we can blow them apart.

Besides, Termies and Sternguard are very different units. Termies, nowadays its generally just assault termies for vanilla and some mix 'n' match wolf and DA squads.

it's like comparing Ogryns to Stormtroopers, in a very different way I suppose. Stormtroopers are much less durable, but aren't generally going to be charging around are they now? They shoot stuff, although they do it a helluva lot less well than our beloved veterans. Ogryns just stomp stuff and live long.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Sanctjud — GMT

Grey Templar wrote:Sternguard are good in higher point games.

They are good because they have an answer for everything.

high toughness models? Helfire rounds, wound on a 2+

MEQs? Vengence rounds for AP3 goodness(who says 1K sons only get ap3 bolters)

GEQs in cover? Dragonfire bolts for ignoring cover and most likely ignoring armor awsomeness and cheap combi-flamers

High toughness models at long range? Kraken bolts for Str5 AP4 snipeing.

High AV vehicles? cheap combi-meltas without a drop in special ammo effectivness.

they may die to the things reqular SMs do, but they can get transports to even the odds.

effective unit for the cost. more versitile then terminators.

Line by line:

I agree they are better at higher points...but what isn't? Except like...Tau...

They have an answer for alot of things but not everything.

Hellfire rounds are nice, but you are then relying on failing saves.

Vengeance rounds, has risk and does not by pass cover saves and has lower max range,... in a way inferno bolts get a leg up.

GEQ's, the rate of return is not so great, but I agree it is a nice thing.

Kraken are not str 5...and the longer range should be moot.

Combi-meltas are cool, but it just means one less round of using bolts, more points, and in a not so healthy range to the enemy.

Transports doesn't really affect their durability:cost ratio...

Both are effective units for cost if you apply them appropriately, while each has a different kind of flexibility....to say one has more than the other is IMO simply a big oversimplification.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

MikhailLenin — GMT

I think people who value of Terminators (Shooty Ones) over Sternguard have an attachment to nostalgia.

While shooty terminators are great, the probability of them shooting a Monster or a unit that can put the hurt on them before they get to swing is rather low but the Sternguard have some good odds at putting down those baddies without taking casualties.

Vanilla Marines don't have to play the assaulty angry punch to the face to win.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Mannahnin — GMT

Ed_Bodger wrote:????? Sits in stunned silence with head in hands shaking it slowly from side to side ??????

Thanks for telling me that I read the transport capacity in my SW dex and assumed it would be the same for vanilla marines without actually reading it. (Never used drop pods till fairly recently).

You sir may have revolutionised my army

Woo hoo! Gotta love when that happens. Yeah, and you have the option to combat squad on the drop, potentially killing or crippling two enemy units as you arrive. Good stuff.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Darkvoidof40k — GMT

MikhailLenin wrote:Vanilla Marines don't have to play the assaulty angry punch to the face to win.

Buuuuuuuuuuut itssssssssssss fuuuuuuuuuuuuuun!

Anyways, if you play 'em right, you'll be eating up the enemy so much you may as well assault for fun. Except against big... evil... Tyranids. *shudder*

Are Sternguard a waste?

Sanctjud — GMT

@MikhailLenin:
The Stern offer burst damage/alpha strike.
Termies offer the complete opposite.

It's not nostalgia, it's a different role/playstyle that suits each unit.

@Mannahnin:
In his case, he has the chance of crippling THREE+ units with respect to flamers galore and 2 combat squads with IC as the third flamer or melta.

Though it's few and far between, stuff like crippling 2 units seems more trick pony than anyting else to me.

Are Sternguard a waste?

MikhailLenin — GMT

Sanctjud wrote:@MikhailLenin:
The Stern offer burst damage/alpha strike.
Termies offer the complete opposite.

It's not nostalgia, it's a different role/playstyle that suits each unit.

I agree, I am only stating that stating that Terminators are better overall stems from Nostalgia.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Sanctjud — GMT

Ahh.
/shrug, I've never been too impressed with them...they seemed more of a joke after they lost their 3+ Armor Save made on 2D6...

Are Sternguard a waste?

VikingScott — GMT

Darkvoidof40k wrote:
VikingScott wrote:Sobs can make flamers AP1 with a prayer

Well while they stand around chanting, we can blow them apart.

Besides, Termies and Sternguard are very different units. Termies, nowadays its generally just assault termies for vanilla and some mix 'n' match wolf and DA squads.

it's like comparing Ogryns to Stormtroopers, in a very different way I suppose. Stormtroopers are much less durable, but aren't generally going to be charging around are they now? They shoot stuff, although they do it a helluva lot less well than our beloved veterans. Ogryns just stomp stuff and live long.

No its an actual rule.
Tests of faith.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Darkvoidof40k — GMT

If they were still like that, in the current codex they would have to be a 3rd more of their current pts cost higher. Probably double or more, but GW wouldn't want that - we'd be buying less models. Then again, that might just = 30 terminators in everyones army. Either way, it makes the game much more quicker, and if you ended up taking multiple saves on a complicated terminator unit with the 2d6 thing it'd slow the game down way to much.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

VikingScott wrote:
Darkvoidof40k wrote:
VikingScott wrote:Sobs can make flamers AP1 with a prayer

Well while they stand around chanting, we can blow them apart.

Besides, Termies and Sternguard are very different units. Termies, nowadays its generally just assault termies for vanilla and some mix 'n' match wolf and DA squads.

it's like comparing Ogryns to Stormtroopers, in a very different way I suppose. Stormtroopers are much less durable, but aren't generally going to be charging around are they now? They shoot stuff, although they do it a helluva lot less well than our beloved veterans. Ogryns just stomp stuff and live long.

No its an actual rule.
Tests of faith.

I never doubted that, and I was kinda making a joke that is kinda true.. I think, but I don't play any SoBs.

ANYHOO, moving back to Sternguard. Tbh, I think we've kind of completed the argument of termies vs sternguard, even though the OP was just whether the newbie should take sternguard or not. The Termies V sternguard argument should be moved to another thread now, IMO.

Are Sternguard a waste?

DEATH89 — GMT

Just for the sake of it, they're my favourite new unit in the marine codex (I know they're not new anymore but hush) and Cassius leading 30 Stern with 30 tac marines against nids is an awesome sight to behold for someone who loves his smurfs dearly

Are Sternguard a waste?

wuestenfux — GMT

Nurglitch wrote:Plus if Librarians have Force Dome, then you have to choose between Null Zone and Gate of Infinity...

I'd consider two Librarian, one with gate and nullzone, and the other with gate and whatnot.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Ed_Bodger — GMT

Good plan but the drawback is a 5+ invulnerable is not great protection a few plasma cannons or power weapons and you loose both your Hq units and an elite unit

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Grey Templar — GMT

a 5++ save is better then none at all

if your opponent has enough plasma to seriously worry your Sguard then you probably have a tough fight no matter what you bring.

I think we can all agree that Sternguard are better then Vanguard by leaps and bounds.

Are Sternguard a waste?

Darkvoidof40k — GMT

Vanguard are so terribad they are not even worth discussing. Although once the 5 metal models made up their pts O.O. But that was when they assaulted 20 necron warriors.. but that was when they had just survived being shot by aforementioned warriors and taking 1 casualty. Two rounds of assault later -- 3 vanguard left (power weps and sarge).

Anyway, back to the non interlectually challenged gamers choice of Veteran squad...

With Pedro, Sternguard are just as good as vanguard in assault anyways.... just lacking the power weapons there.

Tbh, true though it is Templar, why mention Vanguard? It is universally accepted without being said :p

But yes, any newbies reading the vanguard statement above this post need never think of them again. Unless you're in it for awesome model conversions or not trying to win..

Basically, the above is me agreeing.

So, now that vanguard have been done anyway, I don't see what else there is to discuss on sternguard. Correct me if I'm wrong, because for some reason I enjoy posting agreement with everyone else on this thread and continuing to do so would not be a bad thing. >.<

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

MekanobSamael — GMT

Nightsbane wrote:thanks for the info.

how are you figuring the 2+ to wound?

The have hellfire rounds, but those are explained in the wargear section not the sternguards page.

Sternguard are a hell of a unit. Great for carnifex-hunting, digging out enemies with pesky cover saves, and just generally great for putting a ton of firepower downrange. A great investment for 25 points.

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Sanctjud — GMT

Grey Templar wrote:a 5++ save is better then none at all

True, but there is an oppurtunity cost... the libby not using some other power.

Else, Stern are lethal to infantry and can be equipped enough to deal with most threats, but are balanced in that their numbers are realatively low and no better durability than normal MEQs.

I personally don't run them often with my main list, their delivery methods are not my cup of tea (rhino/pod) as I play a Biker list, and well, that's just me. If you go with them I highly suggest supporting elements to be quick enough to BE there if they are in a pod, or a rhino wall along the way there if they are in a rhino.

-Sanct.

Are Sternguard a waste?

wuestenfux — GMT

I'd be willing to consider a 10 men Sternguard unit with combi-meltas in a Pod.
Add a Dread and a Tactical unit each of which in a Pod.
This gives you some tactical flexibility in all scenarios (missions, going first or second).

Re:Are Sternguard a waste?

Grey Templar — GMT

i have heard one of the nastiest ways to kill TMCs, deamon princes and the like is to Pod down a Sternguard squad with a librarian(who has nullzone and GoI)

Libby nullzones that area and the Sternguard double tap Vengence(ap3) rounds into the enemy.

watch them fail alot of invuln saves(if they even have any)

then GoI away and repeat to others who need it.

Are Sternguard a waste?

wuestenfux — GMT

Well, this tactics is nasty.
But the Pods should have locator beacons so that the Libby plus Sternguard can 'jump' around with getting harmed from gating.