http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net HQ- Chaos Lord- Mark of T, plasma pistol, Daemonweapon-160 (Inside Rhino with Rubric marines+Sorc)

Elite- 5 Terminators, 1 reaper, 1 combimelta, 1 chain, 1 powerfirst + Icon of T= 240
Inside a Land Raider with Daemonic Possession=240

Troops- 8 thousand Sons+ Sorceror with Doombolt in Rhino with extra armor=304
8 thousand Sons+ Sorceror with Doombolt in Rhino with extra armor=304
8 thousand Sons+ Sorceror with Doombolt in Rhino with extra armor=304

Heavy- 5 Havoks- 2 Las/2Missle=185
5 havoks 2 Auto/2 heavy B=145
Defiler or Vindicator with daemonic= 145 or 150


2027 I guess i can Shave off some points from terminator squad, or drop one termi and throw HQ with them. Any critique or any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568514.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568514.page GMT
Havoks are kind of bad, there's better choices (namely a predator or another defiler)

Finally, you're very light on AV stuff for 2000 points.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568523.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568523.page GMT
Now, to your list(this was done right before I had to leave for work so its probably a bit jumbled, I'll edit it when I get home):

Lord is a little weird. I'd drop the plasma as your DW is already threatening to kill him. If you must give him a shooting weapon take a combi-melta.

Your terminator squad is crazy expensive , only has one combi-weapon (one of the main benefits of terminators), and has a reaper which is one of the most overcosted upgrades in our codex. I would recommend dropping this down to a 3-4 man squad with 3-4combi-melta and/or a powerfist + heavy flamer if you must have more than that. Always look at what you could get in your troops section when buying elites. If you're getting a better squad by spending the points on regular csms (one of the most efficient choices in the book) then do so.

For the same price as that termie squad (~500 pts) you could get almost 5 termicide squads(3 terminators with 3 combi-melta 105pts) DSing in. Think about that for a minute. 5 decently equipped terms in a land raider that can be killed by melta in one lucky hit, or 15 terms all with melta shots DSing into your enemies ranks to cause chaos and blow up key vehicles? I'm not even saying I'd take 5 termicide squads, but I'm just trying to show you how inefficient that selection is.

Thousand son rubric marines are probably our weakest troop choice (if not our weakest choice in our codex). They are expensive, their bolters are weakened by all the easy cover saves your opponent can get and your 4+ invul save is easy to get with normal marines through that same cover. Basically one rule change made these obsolete over night. The only real benefit is the sorcerer who is becoming more and more obsolete with every new codex that adds new psychic defense and better psyker powers than we have. I'd also reconsider doombolt for BoC(or WoC/Warptime). Drop the extra armor on all rhinos as well, they should be run with as little extras as possible.

Consider 2 5man 1kson squads(sorc with BoC/whatever) and 2 10man regular csm squads /w 2x melta + powerfist in a bare rhino. You could also just run your rubric marines as plague marines and paint them blue and yellow. Definitely consider how important the fluff is to you. If it isn't worth losing a lot of games over I'd reconsider these expensive/large 1kson squads because we have so many better options.

Havocs should drop the heavy bolters/lascannons and take 4x autocannon or 2x autocannon 2x missile launcher. Heavy bolters are great for mowing down weak infantry but we have no problem with that as it is. Your heavy support should be focused on taking down either vehicles(esp transports) or hitting hard to kill things that are threatening your transports.

I would also recommend against taking a single defiler or single vindicator. Either get some oblits or get more havocs or drop a havoc squad for a defiler/vindi. A defiler by itself is easy pickings with its weak av12 front and huge profile. Vindicators have better front armor and lower profile but only have a single useful weapon which can be easily knocked out by glances.

You might also consider 2x AC/LC predators /w 5man 4x AC havocs, 2x defiler /w havocs, 2x vindicators with havocs,etc. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568631.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568631.page GMT TS unit by a (much less expensive) CSM unit with 2 meltas mounted in a Rhino.
This is a very flexible unit able to take on tanks and infantry. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568699.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568699.page GMT
I had ended up using the C:SM and using sternguard as TS, but if I had thought of this then I might have stuck with chaos.

Halsfield has lots of good advice. I have found that regular chaos marines are the backbone of the codex, and any list that wants to be successful needs to take a serious look at getting a decent amount of troops on the table.

Everyone has a different kind of playstyle. Before you go out and buy a bunch of stuff(assuming you are just starting here if not then ignore) try getting in a few games by proxing your thousand sons as reguals C:sm or plague marines, etc to see how they play. Same suggestion for yoru havocs ... proxy them as 4 autocannons for a game or two to see just how awesome they are. Back in 4th edtion they were one of the few untis that could realistically have a chance of downing the unkillable falcons. They R-O-C-K! Anyway, finding out what you like before spending a buch of cash will be very helpful in the long run.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568767.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568767.page GMT Terminators x5
Champion, Chain Fist, Heavy Flamer, Icon of Tzeench, Combi-Plasma x4]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568794.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568794.page GMT Regarding the terminators, yeah wow those are crazy expensive. I am only considering running terminators in a LR because I already have a LR and would like to use the LR as a transport so i can still have three heavy plus a LR. I am either going to use a Lord or a sorcerer, I might switch to a sorc and throw him in a rhino ir in LR with terminators(soon to be much cheaper). That or put a lash prince just to pick an effective HQ choice, though overused now. I might drop 1 rubric squad for 10 marines in rhino with two meltas like you said. I guess 4 autocannons could be a bit more effective with much higher str and lower AP. Well what about 4xauto in havok group, with 4xmissle in other for tank-busting. But double predator or vindicator could be fun with Autocannon havoks backing up....I would have 3 rhinos 1 LR, and 2 preds, and...one squad of infantry deployed. Interesting ideas, much appreciated.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568900.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/294577/1568900.page GMT