Warlordron'swaagh wrote:If you are going badmoon and your points allow, you NEED flash gitz, single handedly the nastiest shooting we got as orks. Lootas arent bad for the points, but a flash gitz is so much better, not as much range, but can stick em in a BWGN with KFF mek or something so they can move around a bit and still shoot. Just a thought.

Redbeard wrote:

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:If you are going badmoon and your points allow, you NEED flash gitz, single handedly the nastiest shooting we got as orks. Lootas arent bad for the points, but a flash gitz is so much better, not as much range, but can stick em in a BWGN with KFF mek or something so they can move around a bit and still shoot. Just a thought.

What? Flash gitz are the single-handed worst unit in the codex. In 5th edition, everything can get a cover save with little effort - what makes you want to spend points on a gun that might have an AP value, instead of more shots and more wounds in shoota boyz.

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:Thats a tactics issue more so then anything else. The purpose of putting them in the battlewagon is to be able to move them some where advantageous, and preferably in the open, whilst using a kff to give yourself a cover save . Make them come to you, and pick em off, the creatures that typically give orks a hard time, i.e. monstrous creatures and the like, cannot get cover so easily. Never underestimate the ability to measure before declaring shots too, by proper placement you can figure out from the measurements tothe gitz how far everyone else is. For example, BWGN is open topped, give it a DR and charge throuh a unit, have gitz then get out, and shoot whats left, they wont be in cover more then likely at that point. Use them for chokepoints where the enemy is forced to come closer, such as guarding an objective. My gitz have ALWAYS scored me their points at a minimum, and on once occasion, they single handedly wiped out, in round, a brood of carnifex, a maxed squad of necron scarabs and (I can never remember the name, the small tyranids with the scythe claws) a unit of 15 tyranids melee bugs. They destroyed, completly, both groups. I have never seen a single orc unit cause that much carnage, all I lost in that mess was 1 flash gitz. If you dont like them, thats fine. Maybe you don't know how to maximize their potential, thats cool too. Thats why this forums are for opinions and ideas, if you dont like mine thats fine, you ain't gonna hurt my feelings. I gave my two cents, and weighed back in, but not gonna let this turn into a thread jacking, so i won't reply any more on the flash gitz, all i ask is dont write them off, they are quite powerful when played correctly as intended. Ciao'

Icehawk18 wrote:Just a couple of side things. It's only a 1 in 36 chance to kill yourself with a Big Mek by rolling a double 1. 2 in 36 chance if you count the zoink teleporting into assault as killing yourself as well. (pretty true often)

Your SAG cannot benefit from the ammo runt on the KFF Mek as ammo runts are taken by a specific model and "A model with an ammo runt is allowed to re-roll one to hit roll for a shooting attack..."

Frosty Hardtop wrote:They have the same range and BS as a Rokkit Launcha would have, why not discount those while you're at it?

One shot with a KMB has a 1/3 chance of hitting, a 5/6 chance of killing outright; a 2/3 chance of failing an invulnerable save, that's about a 20% (10/54) chance of killing a terminator, higher (5/18) if there's no invuln save. KMBS, as already mentioned, ignore FNP, WBB, and can even (if lucky) tap Armor, with the same strength, range, and BS as a Rokkit Launcha. Two shots is a 40% (20/54) chance, and I'm willing to make those shots.

One shot with a Big Shoota has a 1/3 chance of hitting, a 2/3 chance of wounding, but only a 1/6 chance of actually dealing a single wound; not considering multiple wound models, FNP, WBB, anything else those crafty TEQs might have. That's approximately a 5% (2/54) chance of dealing a wound, six shots is about 30% (12/54) chance, and can't hurt anything but the lightest Armour. The only benefit is the 36" range, which this army really doesn't need.

There's your Mathhammer.

ChrisCP wrote:
So, I don't discount RL for two reasons 1) +1str 2) 5 points (33%) cheaper than a KMB. Means you Can instant kill Tough - 4 and you can penetrate AV 13.
In fact if you're shooting at practically anything but TEQs (Who don't have SS) then the KMB is a worse choice - and more expensive.

mercer wrote:Not when you're in a battlewagon, King

Waaaaagh wrote:Why would you ever put guns on a Deffdread? If your talking about killing TH/SS termies just take two more DCCW's you strike first, should kill two or three before they hit, and when they do hit, (counting 3 left, with assaulting attacks), 4-5 hits, 1 or two glancing or penetrating hits, maybe you get killed. You've already killed close to your pts worth, plus if you survive first round you'll probably win.

Waaaaagh wrote:
Why would you ever put guns on a Deffdread? If your talking about killing TH/SS termies just take two more DCCW's you strike first, should kill two or three before they hit, and when they do hit, (counting 3 left, with assaulting attacks), 4-5 hits, 1 or two glancing or penetrating hits, maybe you get killed. You've already killed close to your pts worth, plus if you survive first round you'll probably win.

Because it's a gunline army, not an assault army.

Waaaaagh wrote:

Waaaaagh wrote:
Why would you ever put guns on a Deffdread? If your talking about killing TH/SS termies just take two more DCCW's you strike first, should kill two or three before they hit, and when they do hit, (counting 3 left, with assaulting attacks), 4-5 hits, 1 or two glancing or penetrating hits, maybe you get killed. You've already killed close to your pts worth, plus if you survive first round you'll probably win.

Because it's a gunline army, not an assault army.

In which case it would be cheaper and more effective to take Kill Kanz. Point being Deffdreads shouldnt be taken to shoot things with

Rionnay wrote:75 armor saves on 10 termis will do it almost every time. Also say they do blow up the battle wagon (say there are 2-3 termis left) lootas get hit have to take a wound from the explosion armor saves blah blah blah. You will still have 3-4 burnas, thats another turn of burning the termis that just destroyed your ride. Burnas may be one of the best ways to take out large groups of termis, I know few other good ways.

Frosty Hardtop wrote:
KMBs and Rokkit Launchas are both STR 8.

KMB - 24", STR 8, AP 2, Assault 1, Gets Hot!
Rokkit Lancha - 24", STR 8, AP 3, Assault 1

They're exactly the same, one just has a lower AP.

I think at the end of the day, the KMB just comes down to a matter of taste; I think the AP2 is worth the extra 5 points, and you don't.