<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Sisters Army?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Sisters Army?
I was thinking of either making a Rage Army or an all Sister shooty faith point army.

The rage army, which sounded more fun but probably is not as good, would have:

Inquisitor Lord with Retinue in LR
3 Sisters Squads in Rhinos
Sisters Repentia
Arco Flagellants
Priests in every squad
9 Penitent Engines

It sounds like it would be fun in theory, but in practice it would more than likely get shot up before it got close to anyone.

The other army list would have:

Cannoness
Saint Celestine w/ Seraphim
4 Sisters Squads in Rhinos
Sisters Repentia
3 Exorcists

This list gives me mad faith points and increased mobility.

Any suggestions on additions to the rosters or which do you think would be the most viable?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1594865.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1594865.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1594990.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1594990.page GMT Sisters Army?
In any event, avoid repentia - they are very cool, but not even remotely worth the points. I'd also avoid Celestine, she's crazy-expensive for what she does*.

Finally, fielding three Exorcists is considered somewhat beardy.

Okay, that's what not to do...

You can't go wrong with your basic Battle sister squad, VSS, Book of St. Lucius, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino. For all-round style and effectiveness, you can't top them.

Personally, I like dominions (VSS, 4x Flamer and Litanies of Faith if I have the points) in an Immolator. They are an aquired taste, but that many flamers (possibly with Rending) can spoil anyone's day.

You may want to employ some Celestians (also in an Immolator) too. They are about as good as sisters get in assault (which is not very) and a much better bet than Repentia.


*What she does is come back from the dead - which I won't deny is cool, but I can't justify her cost, sorry.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595072.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595072.page GMT Sisters Army?
Stoic Kiwi wrote:Okay so I'm at a pivotal point in collecting my sisters army and was wondering if anyone could offer any insight into which direction I should go.

I was thinking of either making a Rage Army or an all Sister shooty faith point army.

The rage army, which sounded more fun but probably is not as good, would have:

Inquisitor Lord with Retinue in LR
3 Sisters Squads in Rhinos
Sisters Repentia
Arco Flagellants
Priests in every squad
9 Pertinent Engines

It sounds like it would be fun in theory, but in practice it would more than likely get shot up before it got close to anyone.

The other army list would have:

Cannoness
Saint Celestine w/ Seraphim
4 Sisters Squads in Rhinos
Sisters Repentia
3 Exorcists

This list gives me mad faith points and increased mobility.

Any suggestions on additions to the rosters or which do you think would be the most viable?


Both lists are terrible. The first one is much much more terrible. The second one, the only real dark stain is the Repentia. Also, Celestine by herself is silly, give her a Seraphim retinue, or better yet don't use her, she's too expensive, and she costs too much faith when she dies.

A 5th edition list needs more anti-tank than the traditional mech SoB build brings. I suggest a minimum of 3x 5 girl squads in Immolators with 2x meltaguns each. I would normally go with 4x immolators, one Palatine with retinue and 3x Celestian units. They are great tank hunters and they still pack anti-infantry punch with the immolator. I would not use Repentia under any circumstances. The days of the solo jump canoness are over as well. She was good back when she could charge the corner of a unit and only fight three guys. But with Defenders React she'll be pulled down even by basic tac Marines. Jump canonesses are a unit used by noobs against other noobs, no offense. Outside of that context they are just not any good in 5th ed.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595146.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595146.page GMT Sisters Army? tac sqaud, true. And even a tac squad requires the 2+ save. But I think she could still worth it over Palatines. It is a faith point, and you could spend the points to make her sufficiently decent at melee and stuff her in a leading transport to make the unit more painful to fight when charged.

Repentia and all the other freakshow units are really fragile and won't live to do anything very often. Repentia in specific have enough trouble living to swing in melee, much less being shot to death.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595283.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595283.page GMT Sisters Army?
MagicJuggler wrote:11 Immolators, carrying Stormtroopers, Celestians, and Dominions. Each with 2x Meltagun. Final
Laughably weak army, however.

Immolators are autocannon fodder and far too expensive for what they do, especially if you're transporting an entire army using only Immolators. Stormtroopers are hilariously weak and easy to destroy making the army have no scoring units very quickly (and you'd only have three of them if you want to transport them in Immolators). Dominians are vastly overpriced, and Celestians are slightly overpriced.

Ignore the Inquisitorial units, they suck in comparison to getting more Sisters.

The absolute best and most efficient Sisters army is the following:

Canoness (two kinds-- jump pack or celestian retinue)
4-6 Mechanized Battle Sister Squads (heavy flamer, meltagun, vet w/bolter or combiflamer, book)
2-3 Exorcists
0-1 Retributors with 4x Heavy Bolters (Vet with book and bolter)

And then either Celestians or Seraphim depending on taste and what the Canoness is equipped with (Seraphim for a jump pack Canoness).


Do whatever's fun for you, though. What is efficient and competitive is not fun for everyone, and tactical skill and luck both matter quite a bit in 40k.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595329.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595329.page GMT Sisters Army?
The Grog wrote:A jump cannoness can't really handle anything beyond a basic tac sqaud, true. And even a tac squad requires the 2+ save. But I think she could still worth it over Palatines. It is a faith point, and you could spend the points to make her sufficiently decent at melee and stuff her in a leading transport to make the unit more painful to fight when charged.


Canoness worth it over a Palatine? Sure, if you have the points. Just don't sacrifice your army's real power to get a close combat Canoness. WS4 = poo for a close combat character, with or without a 2+ invuln. Jumping = also poo.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595394.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595394.page GMT Sisters Army?
Azezel wrote:I don't know what a pertinent engine is, but it sounds, well, pertinent...

Haha sorry about the misspelling, I fixed that now

MagicJuggler wrote:11 Immolators, carrying Stormtroopers, Celestians, and Dominions. Each with 2x Meltagun. Final

I don't know if I would try that. Although it looks cool to have tons of little tanks on the battlefield, I've seen an SM guy try this with Rhinos and he did decent until the KP game...

Ixe wrote:Both lists are terrible.

Thanks for being honest.


So the general consensus for the second list is to drop celestine, the repentia, and to use immolators instead of Rhinos?
I didn't really see too much difference in using immolators and rhinos since the reduced carrying capacity.

Also, several people mentioned Retributor squads, are they really that good with HB's?


Sorry if I come off as unknowledgable with the SoB's, I have only played Necrons in 5th and Orks and Chaos in 4th so I don't have too much experience with Imperial Armies.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595395.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595395.page GMT Sisters Army?
Retributor squads with 4 HBs are a decent source of long-ranged anti-horde firepower. The only source of it, for Sisters.

Ixe wrote:Canoness worth it over a Palatine?
Palatines are worthless. Ten points more and you get an extra wound, higher leadership, an extra faith point, and an extra attack. Always take Canonesses.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595536.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595536.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:No, don't use immolators. They're WAY too expensive for what they do. Stick with Battle Sister Squads in rhinos as the majority of your force if you intend to be competitive. If you don't care about being competitive, then sure, take ISTs or Immolators...


I've never once in 3 years ever NOT had an Immolator earn back its points. It's definitely competetive & someone at another LGS around here placed at 'Ard Boyz with Immolator spam.

A Cannoness retinue with a transport might as well take an Immolator over a Rhino, and 90% of the lists I've seen that were "competetive" have Immolators.

It's a freaking Heavy Flamer that re-rolls to wound after moving 12". Much better than a Storm Bolter.

Of course, everyone has their own opinion, but don't go telling this poor kid that Immolators are worthless, when that is far from the truth in a lot of situations.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595574.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595574.page GMT Sisters Army?
radical bob wrote:I've never once in 3 years ever NOT had an Immolator earn back its points.

Then you're either unbelievably lucky or you're fighting gakky opponents. Immolators are useful as transports to the Canoness' retinue, yes, but even then they're fire magnets; it's VERY easy to destroy it with its AV11 front armor, and there goes ~70 points of transport (assuming you purchased smoke). If your opponents are unable to destroy the immolator before it can do any damage, then they probably suck. A single autocannon sentinel can do that easily enough, nevermind a heavy weapons squad, predator tank, etc etc.

Personally, I prefer to instead beef up the retinue to eight celestians, a celestian superior with eviscerator, and the Canoness. The main purpose of a transport is to get the unit inside from point A to point B anyway. Especially using Imperial Armour rules, this is FAR better-- the Immolator ends up costing almost twice as much as a Rhino.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595596.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595596.page GMT Sisters Army? BS 4 Lascannon has about a 15% chance of destroying *or* Immobilizng a Rhino in cover. This ups to about 38% percent for three Lascannons. The odds of 3 groups of 3, destroying *or* immobilizing 3 Immolators would thus be 5% before you account for grouping effects. This same argument was had over whether Obliterators were effective in demeching a foe.

An Immo is easy to destroy. 11, not so much.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595670.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595670.page GMT Re:Sisters Army? The army list you suggested seems the most well-rounded and versatile.

So I just did 2000 point list based off what you said:

1 Canoness with Flamer Celestian squad in Rhino (vet with Eviscerator)
4 Battle Sister Squads in Rhinos (2 with Flamers, 2 with Meltas vets with combi-flamer or combi-melta and BoSLs)
1 Seraphim Squad with 2 flamers (vet with Eviserator)
1 Retributor Squad with 4 HB
2 Exorcists

All for exactly 2000 points.

Thanks for the advice again, I think this will be a great list!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595671.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595671.page GMT Sisters Army?
MagicJuggler wrote:Immobilizng a Rhino in cover.


Which requires you to get the first turn. If not, you have to put your units in reserves to protect them, giving your opponent more than enough time to prepare for their arrival (if they arrive at all).

Rhinos are half the cost of an immolator using FW rules, which most people allow (I don't play tournies to begin with, they have a very skewed metagame and a frequently very rules-lawyer player base). And they're just as hard/easy to kill. And furthermore, ten Battle Sisters instead of six Celestians means that you can capture an objective, and they can use Acts of Faith anyway unlike that TL heavy flamer on the immolator.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595811.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595811.page GMT Sisters Army?
With only 6 meltaguns in your *entire* army and minor ranged support for taking out enemy light armor assuming you're lucky then and there, your "absolute best list" is really quite overfocused on dealing with infantry. It'll do well assuming your opponent doesn't mech up (guess what? Mech is still the rage), but a good army isn't based on assumptions. What happens when you run into a Guard list that attritions you down by having more vehicles than you can possibly slog through?

But go ahead. Say that spending 150 points per meltagun is uber. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595857.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595857.page GMT Re:Sisters Army?
Stoic Kiwi wrote:Thanks for all of the input everyone, especially Melissia.
The army list you suggested seems the most well-rounded and versatile.

So I just did 2000 point list based off what you said:

1 Canoness with Flamer Celestian squad in Rhino (vet with Eviscerator)
4 Battle Sister Squads in Rhinos (2 with Flamers, 2 with Meltas vets with combi-flamer or combi-melta and BoSLs)
2 Exorcists
1 Seraphim Squad with 2 flamers (vet with Eviserator)
1 Retributor Squad with 4 HB
2 Exorcists

All for exactly 2000 points.

Thanks for the advice again, I think this will be a great list!


Before you listen particularly to one person, you might want to notice how that one person doesn't play tournaments, and adjust your thinking accordingly. I'm not saying Melissa's advice is wrong, I'm just saying that it's perhaps not tuned to the utmost 5th ed competitive standard.

Don't use Retributors. In a mech list, it's very difficult to give them open fire lanes. And if they do have open fire lanes, they're just gonna get shot to pieces. Believe it or not, the weakness of SoB is anti-troop fire, because of our T3. Retributors are gonna eat all of the enemy's anti-troop in the early game because the other models will be in or hiding behind rhinos. Retributors can't hide because if they're hiding they're not firing, i.e. a big waste of points. A second Seraphim squad would help your list more than the Retributors. So would a third Exorcist.

Never take a Battle Sister Squad without a heavy flamer. It's just a huge waste. You go from having a squad that can single-handedly wipe out anything with a 4+ save to a squad that's gonna be a bit of a wet noodle against 4+ saves.

I personally recommend running at least a few immolators with 5 Celestians and 2x melta inside. It works very well for tank hunting, and the immolator is an amazing tank. You don't have to spam them, but do consider using a few of them.

Failing that, try to get double melta on as many units as possible. You need double melta squads for tank hunting if you want to survive in 5th edition mechanized craziness. If you absolutely won't take any 2x melta Celestians, I would grab some Battle Sisters with Heavy Flamer, Melta, Combi-melta. Don't waste the heavy flamer slot because it adds a lot of anti-troop punch, but don't sally forth with just a single melta. It was fine in 4th ed, but it's not fine anymore. It gets expensive, but if you want an army based around a solid Battle Sisters core, the combo of choice is heavy flamer + melta + brazier + combi-melta. This gives you amazing versatility, the ability to rack up tons of hits for hitting infantry, without giving up some pretty nasty tank hunting. If you're short on points, I would drop the brazier first. Infantry usually go down to Sisters even without stacking on the double flame templates, but tanks in 5th ed NEED to be stopped or you will get pwed. Especially because your 58 point 3rd ed rhinos are not going to last all that long unless you get super lucky. If the enemy has you out of transports before you have him out, you're boned.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595859.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595859.page GMT Sisters Army? Thanks for the input.
I was questioning the retributor squad since they would really be the only stationary, non-mechanized squad in my whole army (at least the Seraphim are jump).

It does make sense to drop a HF in each squad and melta-up. I notice that almost every time I lose, it is because of armour or CC. So having an HF and 2 meltas in a squad could really help with that.

I really was thinking about 3 Exorcists in the list as well. I'm sure it is nothing but Cheese, but they would be great at knocking out armour and heavy infantry with the AP1. Plus, they're the longest range unit the sisters have really.

A second Seraphim squad would also bolster the CC capabilities of the SoB as well. They've been kind of hit or miss when I've employed them but I can see how with proper support, they could level lines of annoying shooty infantry.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595903.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595903.page GMT Sisters Army?
Stoic Kiwi wrote:
I really was thinking about 3 Exorcists in the list as well. I'm sure it is nothing but Cheese, but they would be great at knocking out armour and heavy infantry with the AP1. Plus, they're the longest range unit the sisters have really.

A second Seraphim squad would also bolster the CC capabilities of the SoB as well. They've been kind of hit or miss when I've employed them but I can see how with proper support, they could level lines of annoying shooty infantry.


3 Exorcists is not cheese. It's one of the only ways to go heavy that isn't Immo spam. Retributors just aren't what they used to be.

Seraphim are great units but a little overcosted. Just an FYI


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ixe wrote:

Snip 5th ed competitiveness

Snip Retrib

Snip HF Advice

Snip Celestians w/2xMelta

Snip Double


I second all of Ixe's points]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595964.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1595964.page GMT Sisters Army?
Retributors may do ok. Most everything that is S6 or better will be shooting Rhino hulls. The question is more 'do you need HBs', and I'd venture the answer is no. There isn't a lot you can't burn to death faster and more efficiently. If you do field them, it is very important that you can put them somewhere with good LOS that you won't have to trample over with your rhinos. That last part is the trick. Cover is less important, as most AP 3 weapons are also high S and will be busy shooting Rhinos. If somebody wants to throw missiles and such at your Retributors that is probably good for you. I see no reason whatsoever to take MMs. If only they could have missiles or heavy flamers ...

I am yet unconvinced that you can't meet your melta needs with combis, Celestians, and Dominions and stick to unsplit special weapons choices, but other people make it work. 2 melta celestians are cheaper than 2 melta dominions, and f/hf sisters are better than 2 flamer dominions. BUT, if you somehow really need more special weapons, 4 melta dominions are cheaper than a pair of 2 melta celestian squads. So if you really need to kill MCs, they and the otherwise laughable bolter-stake crossbow are options. I'm not really sure what you'd need 4 flamer templates to kill though.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1596008.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1596008.page GMT Re:Sisters Army?
Ixe wrote:Before you listen particularly to one person, you might want to notice how that one person doesn't play tournaments, and adjust your thinking accordingly. I'm not saying Melissa's advice is wrong, I'm just saying that it's perhaps not tuned to the utmost 5th ed competitive standard.
Au contraire, my lists are quite efficient. But this isn't a list I designed, I don't like to make lists for other people...

Don't use Retributors [...]In a mech list
I agree with this actually. I like Retributors, but unless you somehow manage to get them on a hill or somesuch, they'd have a hard time having line of sight. I said 0-1 only because they can be helpful against a horde army, it's dependent VERY heavily on your local metagame. A third exorcist would be better against mech lists and MEQ lists-- don't forget, an exorcist barrage is just as deadly against MEQ as it is against tank. In fact, it's recommended you use Exorcists to deal with nobz, because it instantly kills them and thus nullifies their two wound advantage.

Never take a Battle Sister Squad without a heavy flamer.
Another good piece of advice.

If you're short on points, I would drop the brazier first.
Indeed. I would reccomend only using the Brazier as an alternative to the Combiflamer (you get the extra attack in close combat from having two CCWs). If you need anti-tank, drop it and take a combimelta instead.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1596551.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1596551.page GMT Sisters Army?
The Grog wrote:
I am yet unconvinced that you can't meet your melta needs with combis, Celestians, and Dominions and stick to unsplit special weapons choices, but other people make it work. 2 melta celestians are cheaper than 2 melta dominions, and f/hf sisters are better than 2 flamer dominions. BUT, if you somehow really need more special weapons, 4 melta dominions are cheaper than a pair of 2 melta celestian squads. So if you really need to kill MCs, they and the otherwise laughable bolter-stake crossbow are options. I'm not really sure what you'd need 4 flamer templates to kill though.


Of course 4x melta Dominions are cheaper than 2x2 double melta Celestians. That's because they are not as good. 4x melta dominions might as well be painted in a nice red and white target color scheme. All it takes is one lucky anti-tank shot, and they're grounded. And when they do reach the enemy, they can only hit one tank. And they have only 1 casualty before they start losing meltaguns. Plus, they don't give Faith and they're only LD8 without a VSS, and a VSS reduces any price advantage they have. 2x2 double melta Celestians have double the transports, can attack two different targets, and can take more casualties without losing a melta, not to mention they still have just as much firepower if they choose to converge on a target.

Melissia wrote:
Ixe wrote:Before you listen particularly to one person, you might want to notice how that one person doesn't play tournaments, and adjust your thinking accordingly. I'm not saying Melissa's advice is wrong, I'm just saying that it's perhaps not tuned to the utmost 5th ed competitive standard.
Au contraire, my lists are quite efficient. But this isn't a list I designed, I don't like to make lists for other people...


I think most of your advice is correct, I just disagree with your overall list structure of maxing out Battle Sisters. That was how you won in 4th ed, when mech was less of a problem. In 5th ed, you NEED more meltaguns than Battle Sisters can provide (unless you go with heavy flamer/melta/combi-melta).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1596929.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1596929.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597181.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597181.page GMT Sisters Army?
5th ed rewards transports tremendously, in addition to making them very cheap for all the 5th ed current codices. It doesn't take a genius to see that a mech list pretty much stomps any non-mech list, with the obvious exception of a few alternatives like Tyranids, Blood Angles jumpers, Space Marine bikers, etc. If you want to face all comers, you NEED reliable anti-tank, and you need enough of it to be able to crush a transport spam. Maybe if mechanized armies are rare locally, you don't need 12 meltaguns, maybe you can make do with 8 or 10. But you can't have none, or like 3-4, because that will fall flat against a transport spam, and you're trying to beat all comers, including a transport spam. And the great thing about meltas is they're also tremendously threatening to monstrous creatures, and they're not bad against heavy troops either.

The only alternative to 12 meltaguns I would ensorse would be maybe 6 melta and 6 plasma guns. Plasma is nice because it can still pwn AV10 and 11 while being more threatening against infantry. Of course the only way to get that much plasma is with ISTs and Inquisitors, which generally make for an inferior list to pure Sisters.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597227.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597227.page GMT Sisters Army?
Frankly, I dislike combi-meltas as a rule, and if I REALLY need that transport popped RIGHT NOW, I'll use my three exorcists rather than spend fifteen points on a one-shot weapon that has a good chance of doing just about nothing. This has worked quite well for me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597236.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597236.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:The metagame is different in every locale, both competitive metagame and otherwise. The idea of a global metagame is a lie.


Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, your wrong.

When the leafblower took 'Ard Boyz, a large amount of people started leafblower lists.

And in general, the new codexes spit out a good amount of players playing certain arch-types of the new books.

That is the "global metagame".

Melissia wrote:
Ixe wrote:Before you listen particularly to one person, you might want to notice how that one person doesn't play tournaments, and adjust your thinking accordingly. I'm not saying Melissa's advice is wrong, I'm just saying that it's perhaps not tuned to the utmost 5th ed competitive standard.
Au contraire, my lists are quite efficient. But this isn't a list I designed, I don't like to make lists for other people...

Don't use Retributors [...]In a mech list
I agree with this


...

Ignore the Inquisitorial units, they suck in comparison to getting more Sisters.

The absolute best and most efficient Sisters army is the following:

Canoness (two kinds-- jump pack or celestian retinue)
4-6 Mechanized Battle Sister Squads (heavy flamer, meltagun, vet w/bolter or combiflamer, book)
2-3 Exorcists
0-1 Retributors with 4x Heavy Bolters (Vet with book and bolter)


...WOW

You walk around like a god of the WH codex, yet I can swear you don't play them, hell I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't play warhammer 40,000 at all.

......

@OP
Listen to Ixe.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597354.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597354.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:
Then you're either unbelievably lucky or you're fighting gakky opponents. Immolators are useful as transports to the Canoness' retinue, yes, but even then they're fire magnets; it's VERY easy to destroy it with its AV11 front armor, and there goes ~70 points of transport (assuming you purchased smoke). If your opponents are unable to destroy the immolator before it can do any damage, then they probably suck. A single autocannon sentinel can do that easily enough, nevermind a heavy weapons squad, predator tank, etc etc.

Personally, I prefer to instead beef up the retinue to eight celestians, a celestian superior with eviscerator, and the Canoness. The main purpose of a transport is to get the unit inside from point A to point B anyway. Especially using Imperial Armour rules, this is FAR better-- the Immolator ends up costing almost twice as much as a Rhino.


A rhino is 50pts straight from the book, a immolator, 65.(extra armor/smoke being the same cost). An immolator can fire even after going flat out 12" SO the immy can do that AND deliver death afterwards. For a 15pt difference. Its really a steal.

I dont know what you have been doing, but I think your just using them wrong if you cant get them to be useful. And dont know who's letting you use imperial armor when you have it already in your codex.....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597374.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597374.page GMT Sisters Army? IA Rhinos for Sisters of Battle. I have yet to meet anyone that thinks that C:WH fifty point rhinos are balanced, and the only person who had a problem with me using the IA Rhinos was some annoying munchkin (in the sense of being a wannabe powergamer) whom I didn't really want to play with anyway on account of his being fifteen and smelly.
Ixe wrote:...WOW
That is a reaction that I've gotten, after defeating fifth edition blood angels with this army.

I never said I use Retributors in most of my lists, by the way... in fact, I only reccomended them against hordes...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597496.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597496.page GMT Sisters Army?
The 'best' SoB army is going to be a mix of SoB with allied IG.

Cannoness, Book + Celestian retinue, meltas or flamers, Immolator

2x SoB x10, meltas or flamers (I prefer flamers since anti troop will let you make use of their bolters), Rhino

1x IG Platoons:

1x Platoon Command Squad in Chimera, Flamers
2x IG squad in Chimera, Flamer/Autocannon
2-5x IG HWT with Autocannons

There's the baseline for you to work off of. There's huge synergy between IG and Sisters; Sisters have plentiful short range ability, IG have plenty of long range firepower. Sisters are a fast mobile strikeforce, IG are able to create stationary fire support platforms. It's a great combo.

Depending on how many HWTs you run, your baseline will cost you around 900-1000 points.

From there, fill with Celestian SW squads and more of the same, even more IG if you want. I'm still a fan of the Exorcist, and I don't think you can go much wrong with 2-3 of those.

5 IG Heavy Weapon Autocannon Teams, 3 Exorcists, 3 Celestian squads (including Cannoness'), and 3+ Chimeras with 4+ Immolators is a great army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597535.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597535.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597540.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597540.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:I know they are. But what is a take all comers list even in one specific metroplex (this one has a population just shy of seven million people) isn't as much in another high density location.

Frankly, I dislike combi-meltas as a rule, and if I REALLY need that transport popped RIGHT NOW, I'll use my three exorcists rather than spend fifteen points on a one-shot weapon that has a good chance of doing just about nothing. This has worked quite well for me.


Exorcists aren't what they used to be. 135 points for a random number of AP shots used to be good, but with 5ed you really need more sources of anti tank than 3 back line support vehicles that become worthless with the first weapon destroyed result. Esp since exorcists can't reliably dent AV 14, and how good land raiders have gotten. AV 14 is more common now outside of SM too, as Imp guard have gotten popular, and battlewagon orks are the practically the only viable ork list.

Sure does suck, esp since it is practically the only native way for a sisters army to get long ranged anti tank in a mostly tank 5th rules meta. The other option is to not go pure sisters and use that nice Inq ability to take an allied IG platoon. Want some auto cannons and lascannons? IG delivers! tons of HW support for a bargain price, and a bunch of extra wounds and flashlights to go with them. Put a cheap book sister next to them, and they are even hard to budge. Or you can mech up the platoons, and fire from the safety of an AV 12 vehicle, that has some nice extra shooting go with it.

So that being said, spamming 11 transports that have TL heavy flamers and containg 20+ meltaguns IS a force to be scared of. With proper deployment and good terrain usage it is possible to give most of the list a cover save, including use of the congo line cover saves. Enough of them will reach range. Who needs bolt guns and faith when you fire S8 Ap 1 shots with nearly half of your models, and your transports spew twin linked heavy flamers?

I will agree that 6 or less immolators won't get to do their job often. But going with more than that is target saturation your opponent will have a hard time dealing with.

The list you posted as the ultimate SoB army is pretty much exactly what I ran until 5th ed came around. The list is a very strong 4th ed list, but just doesn't cut it these days.

As for using FW and imperial armor rules, nobody in my area uses them outside of apoc style games. Used in tourneys? nope. In normal casual gaming? nope. On the FLGS gaming nights? nope. The only event in my area that allows FW is some of adepticon's events. I've found that people who bring up imperial armor in a discussion are usually just joking (as the rules are jokes...) or are casual hobby players (yippee i get to play out your scenarios. I prefer my fluff contained in novels and codexes thank you) , or powergamers who don't like the level of power playing by the main rules allows.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597548.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597548.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597551.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597551.page GMT Re:Sisters Army? SM rhinos when BA (WD article), DA, and chaos had their much nicer and cheaper rhinos.

With sisters you get SM stats for the most part (you get all the important ones, BS4 and 3+ armor), faith, and great special weapons options. Also your models cheaper than SMs, so is it that big a deal that you have to pay 15-18 more points per rhino? If you want extra armor, at 5 points you can have it, where SM EA is too costly to be worth it. Its an old book, with old rules, but you have to take the good with the bad.

IA is not a balanced rules set, its not tested fully and is full of experimental rules and units. It is fine for testing out, or playing scenarios, or for apoc, but for regular vanilla 40k, it really isn't appropriate.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597576.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597576.page GMT Re:Sisters Army? 40k.

WH are already a decent codex, they do not need IA.

If anything at all, YOU would be the power gamer. Not saying that you are, though asking for a rules set that most people haven't read through well enough.

They're not limiting your options for a easier game of 40k. They're limiting your options for a BETTER game of 40k.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597586.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597586.page GMT Sisters Army? WH DOES need cheaper rhinos, and then a dozen other changes besides (if I didn't, I wouldn't have bothered to write that fandex ). Sisters lists are powerful when used right, but it is hard to argue that they really are as good as any fifth edition codex. Yes, they can win, but I even see Grey Knights winning occasionally.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597600.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597600.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:carmachu: Anyone worth playing with will probably let you use the IA Rhinos for Sisters of Battle. I have yet to meet anyone that thinks that C:WH fifty point rhinos are balanced, and the only person who had a problem with me using the IA Rhinos was some annoying munchkin (in the sense of being a wannabe powergamer) whom I didn't really want to play with anyway on account of his being fifteen and smelly.


No they wont. Why would anyone let you buy a vehical at a cheaper cost that you already have in your codex? Repressor? Fine with that. Want to buy a 35pt rhino from there that already is IN your codex ata different cost? No, smacks of munchinkinism.

YOU are the munchkin, not the person saying no. I certainly wouldnt let you do that. It doesnt matter what you think, it matters whats in the book. When we eventually get updated, I'm sure it will change. Until then? No way I'd let you buy something from IA that you already have in our book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:That's funny, I find people who don't allow for Imperial Armour to usually end up being powergamers who really want to limit their opponents options so that they can have an easier game...


I tend to find the complete opposite, that they want something to build up their army that no one has....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597620.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597620.page GMT Sisters Army? IA.

If you play WH in a tournament, don't expect to have 35 point Rhinos, expect to pay the cost listed in your codex.

On that basis alone, you're better off just practicing with the normal 50 pt rhino, even in 'fun' games.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597661.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597661.page GMT Sisters Army? OP has somewhat erronously posted asking list advise in.

He has asked for units to play 40k, not IA. These are 2 different games from two different companies. It doesn't matter if these companes have the same corporate head or not, they are two different games.

Maybe we should focus on giving input in a friendly non-argumentative way.


On Topic-

@OP- So far Ixe and SourClams have given the best advice for a comp army, but it would help us knowing what you have available for model and what style of list you really want to play. Which of these would you say your leaning toward in your playstyle and desire to play, Pure Sisters, Sisters/Inq, Sisters allied with other?

Are you also looking for tactics on these builds or is this more of just a list thread?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597666.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597666.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:carmachu: Anyone worth playing with will probably let you use the IA Rhinos for Sisters of Battle. I have yet to meet anyone that thinks that C:WH fifty point rhinos are balanced, and the only person who had a problem with me using the IA Rhinos was some annoying munchkin (in the sense of being a wannabe powergamer) whom I didn't really want to play with anyway on account of his being fifteen and smelly.


I'm well past 15 and I'm generally not smelly, and when someone asks whether they can use Imperial Armor to give themselves a special extra boost, I generally say no. I treat my friendly game as tournament practice, if I'm beaten by a tournament illegal list, I don't learn anything from it. It's not illegal at all tournaments mind you, because many tournaments are insane. Many, in fact, will allow you to use FW rules for things not in the codex, but will require you to use the codex for stuff that FW duplicates. This leads to such retardeness as Repressors that are cheaper than Rhinos. But I digress. It, for me, is a matter of pride to win with my codex, I don't plead with my opponents to let me use unofficial rules to make me better.


Ixe wrote:...WOW
That is a reaction that I've gotten, after defeating fifth edition blood angels with this army.

I never said I use Retributors in most of my lists, by the way... in fact, I only reccomended them against hordes...


Ixe said that? No he most certainly didn't. Ixe doesn't use ad hominem attacks. Ixe does not accuse other people of lying on the basis of nothing. Ixe finds this kind of attack to be very very rude and he does not tolerate them. So shame on you, Inquisitor_Syphonious. Someone is right or they're wrong, but you don't have to accuse them of not even playing the army. That's an ad hominem attack, their own personal 40k experience has nothing to do with whether they're right or they're wrong, rightness and wrongness can be shown with logical arguments. Calling a stranger a liar to their face just because you disagree with them, that is just beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597678.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597678.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597684.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597684.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597685.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597685.page GMT Sisters Army? IG players tend to shy away from Heavy Weapons Squads because both of the members can be killed with a single S6 or stronger hit... three wounds and the entire squad is dead.

Personally, I prefer Armored Sentinels as heavy weapons platforms.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597693.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597693.page GMT Sisters Army?
sourclams wrote:Ugh, just toss most of the "advice" you've been given so far.

The 'best' SoB army is going to be a mix of SoB with allied IG.

Cannoness, Book + Celestian retinue, meltas or flamers, Immolator

2x SoB x10, meltas or flamers (I prefer flamers since anti troop will let you make use of their bolters), Rhino

1x IG Platoons:

1x Platoon Command Squad in Chimera, Flamers
2x IG squad in Chimera, Flamer/Autocannon
2-5x IG HWT with Autocannons

There's the baseline for you to work off of. There's huge synergy between IG and Sisters; Sisters have plentiful short range ability, IG have plenty of long range firepower. Sisters are a fast mobile strikeforce, IG are able to create stationary fire support platforms. It's a great combo.

Depending on how many HWTs you run, your baseline will cost you around 900-1000 points.

From there, fill with Celestian SW squads and more of the same, even more IG if you want. I'm still a fan of the Exorcist, and I don't think you can go much wrong with 2-3 of those.

5 IG Heavy Weapon Autocannon Teams, 3 Exorcists, 3 Celestian squads (including Cannoness'), and 3+ Chimeras with 4+ Immolators is a great army.


The WH + IG list is not terrible, but I don't find it to be hands down better than SoB either. It dilutes your SoB presence and makes them a lot less dangerous. If you want to mix, IG + SoB is generally superior. SoB provide excellent firepower and durability compared to IG's standard scoring units, so the best thing you can really do is just band-aid a pair of Battle Sister Squads onto an existing IG list, either giving them chimeras to hijack or loading them into valk/vendettas.

I would advise against both choices for a new army, though, unless you have a large 40k budget. Allies are going to be completely gone in a year or two, so it's a bad long term strategy. If you want to own an IG army AND a SoB army, I suggest you collect each individually, and then mix them together as you please. That way you won't be left with two half armies and zero whole armies when the new SoB books comes out.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597694.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597694.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:Eh, I would htink that the heavy weapons teams should probably have lascannons rather than autocannons, if you're really going for a fire support platoon. But then I suppose I face more AV14 than you do.


See, statements like this are why I think that you--even though obviously playing WH as at least one of your main armies--are giving absolutely terrible advice.


The 4 squads of Celestians alone should give you 8 BS4 meltaguns in fast transports for ~600 points. Why do you need to spend 50% more per heavy weapon team to give them lascannons? To get less than one roll on the damage table per every 240 points you fire? If you're facing that much AV14, you should be bringing even more melta, not burning points on fragile lascannons. The reason autocannons are effective is because they're cheap and can blow rhinos all day. Autocannon teams let the rest of your army focus on what it's good at; killing infantry or melta-ing heavy armor. ACs can't touch AV14, but for all practical purposes, neither can BS3 Lascannons at 40 points a pop.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597703.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597703.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597712.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597712.page GMT Sisters Army?
A Moderator wrote:OK guys, I'm getting some alerts popping up from this thread.

Argue by all means but keep it polite.

Thanks...


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597722.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597722.page GMT Sisters Army?
sourclams wrote:The 4 squads of Celestians alone should give you 8 BS4 meltaguns in fast transports for ~600 points. Why do you need to spend 50% more per heavy weapon team to give them lascannons? To get less than one roll on the damage table per every 240 points you fire? If you're facing that much AV14, you should be bringing even more melta, not burning points on fragile lascannons. The reason autocannons are effective is because they're cheap and can blow rhinos all day. Autocannon teams let the rest of your army focus on what it's good at; killing infantry or melta-ing heavy armor. ACs can't touch AV14, but for all practical purposes, neither can BS3 Lascannons at 40 points a pop.


I absolutely agree here. IG have two valid ways of running lascannons: twin-linked on Vendettas, and twin-linked with "Bring it Down!" A 30 man stubborn squad with 3 lascannons and "Bring it Down!" is a nasty tank/monster hunter, and it puts out ridiculous number of shots at 12", and it's really hard to get rid of (unless you've got flamers). In a SoB list though you can't really afford such big squads, and you can't take a Company Command Squad and thus you cannot "bring it down." What you get with IG lascannons in a SoB is an expensive whiff festival. Autocannons hit more reliably because they have two shots, and more importantly, you don't pay through the nose for those two shots.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597989.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1597989.page GMT Sisters Army?
Mind you, I never use them, so I'm not entirely up on their rules]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598007.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598007.page GMT Sisters Army? TL on Vendettas.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598085.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598085.page GMT Sisters Army? twin-linked with "Bring it Down!" '... hrm.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598110.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598110.page GMT Sisters Army? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598295.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598295.page GMT Sisters Army?
focusedfire wrote:Are you also looking for tactics on these builds or is this more of just a list thread?


I was originally looking for tactics on these lists and any suggestions for the lists that I originally posted.
I'm kinda new to 5th so I most certainly was not sure how to handle sisters in this addition.
Now that I've been told my original lists were rubbish, I should clarify what I was hoping to seek:

What is a good tactic/list for sisters in 5th edition tournament play?


Sorry for all of the confusion, I probably shouldn't have posted this in the Tactics forum afterall....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598303.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598303.page GMT Sisters Army?
If you're worred about a lot of mech or a ton of tanks, I'd recommend trying out 2x Meltagun and combiflamer. It's cheaper than Meltagun/Heavy Flamer/Combimelta, and while you do give up some anti-infantry firepower for it, you can make up for it in bodies by saving points. You'll miss the heavy flamer, though, but if your enemies don't have a large number of durable infantry to begin with (IE, mech guard), it might be the best choice for you.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598400.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598400.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:I still hold that lots of Battle Sisters in Rhinos with Exorcists as heavy support is a very competitive list....

This is kind of the way that I wanted to go.

I'd rather use a pure sisters army than mix it with IG.
I've thought that the basic Battle Sister squad is incredibly versatile especially if I give them meltas with a combi-flamer like you suggested.

If I get 6 Battle Sister squads running around in Rhinos with 2 Meltas each, they're bound to give any mobile tank support that the Exorcist can't get to.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598454.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598454.page GMT Sisters Army? BoSL on ever veteran and Smoke on every rhino. So for a 2000 point game, that leaves ~700 points to spend on other units. Add in three Exorcists (ge the FW exorcists, they're cheaper by a long shot), and you have ~300 points to spend building your Canoness and either Celestians or Seraphim.

I tend to prefer celestians myself (gives the Canoness ablative wounds, so you don't have to spend as much on protective gear), but YMMV.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598466.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598466.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:I was responding to Ixe sayin Vendetta lascannons were, and I quote, 'twin-linked with "Bring it Down!" '... hrm.


No there was a comma in there. There are two ways to run lascannons for IG. #1: Vendettas. #2: on foot soldiers using "Bring it Down!" That's what I was saying. Otherwise, their lascannons are too expensive and too innacurate to be worthwhile. I guess there's a way #3, on a Leman Russ commaned by Pask, but he makes expensive tanks more spensive so he's not all that great, and that's a max of one lascannon per army anyway.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598467.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598467.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598471.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598471.page GMT Sisters Army?
Stoic Kiwi wrote:
Melissia wrote:I still hold that lots of Battle Sisters in Rhinos with Exorcists as heavy support is a very competitive list....

This is kind of the way that I wanted to go.

I'd rather use a pure sisters army than mix it with IG.
I've thought that the basic Battle Sister squad is incredibly versatile especially if I give them meltas with a combi-flamer like you suggested.

If I get 6 Battle Sister squads running around in Rhinos with 2 Meltas each, they're bound to give any mobile tank support that the Exorcist can't get to.



That army's gonna get spanked without Seraphim support. Battle Sisters need Seraphim to run interference. If you disembark and fire at a hard unit, and it doesn't die, you need to have Seraphim waiting to charge it with SoTM. Even one lonely SM sergeant with a powerfist can wreck a SoB squad. You need to keep your girls out of assault or you lose, and many armies just have so much assault, or such durable units, that you can't shoot down every single thing that can assault you on the turn you disembark. Seraphim provide the missing piece in a mech SoB list, they provide the tarpit that sticks down enemy assaults (and enemy rapid fire, too) and protects your girls, allowing them to get out of their tanks and dump bolter fire all over their targets.

You may just want to read my tactical guide, it says all this stuff, and it's more comprehensive, it tries to cover all the bases.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598475.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598475.page GMT Sisters Army?
With five Battle Sister Squads instead of six, you can probably have two Seraphim squads supporting your mechanized advance, giving you a lot of tactical options (Seraphim have probably the best Hit and Run rule in the game, and it opens up a lot of cool tactics).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598478.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598478.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:That's funny, I find people who don't allow for Imperial Armour to usually end up being powergamers who really want to limit their opponents options so that they can have an easier game...


Funny I tend to find them to be the people who want to play a game of 40K, not fantasy, not bloodbowl, not apocalypse, not cities of death, a game of 40K. That's what them people tend to be.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598561.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598561.page GMT Sisters Army?
Sisters, Cannoness & Celestians in Rhinos = Good
Cannoness & Celestians in Immolator = Not quite as good
Seraphim = Important stalling unit
Dominions, HB Retributors = Marginal
All else = bad

Inducted IG = Supposedly good]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598844.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1598844.page GMT Re:Sisters Army?
Somthing that many people forget is that immolators have a fire point which can bet pretty handy. That may help sway immolators. ( I also don't understand why people think they are crappy, they are pretty good for a DT. "Fast" razorback eq with TLHF and a fire point for 65 points not to shabby)
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1599987.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1599987.page GMT Sisters Army?
JP Canoness with Evis
2xCelestians with 2xMelta in Immo (S-EA)
4xSisters (Melta, HF, Vet w/Book), Rhino (S-EA)
Vet Squad (Chim, 3x Melta, Demo) - Not legal outside 'AB
Platoon - PCS w/LasC, HWT 3xAC, 2xInfSq with AC
Exorcistx3
Seraphimx8 - Evis, 2x Hand Flamer
Inq Lord - 2xPlasG, 2x Sages, Bolter-Stake, Hood

A balance of a lot of what has been brought up.

- Guard for light transport pops and Obj Holders
- Mech Sisters for Objective Grabs, Infantry Kills, Melta for shots of opportunity
- Seraphim for Harassment and Tie Up
- Exorcist for 'Trouble Shooting' Armor
- Celestian Melta Suicide
-Canoness for tieing some poor bastid up
- Vet for when something just has to die.
- Inq to keep Psykers off my back and kill some poor squad of MEQs.


And I _do_ play in tournaments and competitively on occasion.


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IF you want to go pure sisters, you can drop the WH Inq Lord and IG and get about 3-5 Dominion/Celestian squads in Immos (Celest 2xMelta, Dom 2xMelta,2xFlamer) and get much the same effect.

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Cannonness w/ Eviscerator, Cloak of St Aspira w/ Celestian Bodyguard, 5 models, 2 w/ Meltas in an Immolator with EA + Smoke

I take two of these at the 2000 point level, TONS of faith, decent CC, excellent AT and anti horde. The Celestian Retinues are important because they remove IC status from your Canonness and she can no longer be targeted separately, meaning she'll get to swing back with the Eviscerator.

10 SoB's in Rhinos, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Vet Sister, EA + Smoke on Rhinos

Take 3+ of these at 1500 points and onward. Excellent ant infantry firepower, good mobility, survivability, and will hold objectives well. Make sure to Divine Guidance them frequently. The lack of low AP weapons is countered by the sheer number of hits you'll inflict.

5 Dominions w/ 3 Meltas in Immolator w/ EA + Smoke. Simple transport killers. Drive up to enemy rhino/chimera/serpent, pop it with 3 meltaguns, and then Heavy Flamer the crap out of what pops out. Try to keep these near an SoB squad for support.

2-3 Exorcists. Nobody is going to ding an SoB list for being "beardy". On the contrary most people like fighting my SoB because they are so different and uncommon. They are only Str 8 but can destroy AV 14 because of AP 1. Downright deadly against anything below AV 14, and you've got tons of Melta for that.

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eNvY wrote:Things that I like:I take two of these at the 2000 point level, TONS of faith, decent CC, excellent AT and anti horde. The Celestian Retinues are important because they remove IC status from your Canonness and she can no longer be targeted separately, meaning she'll get to swing back with the Eviscerator.



I agree with all of of what eNvY said, although I would qualify the above Canoness part.

The bad thing about Canoness in a retinue is that she now cannot use any 'roll under' powers (unless you take a really big retinue).

I am a big fan of a canoness on her own. Keep in mind that a 2+ invulnerable save probably means she is swinging that eviscerator no matter what. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1600304.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1600304.page GMT Re:Sisters Army? IIRC.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1601471.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1601471.page GMT Sisters Army?
eNvY wrote:
2-3 Exorcists. Nobody is going to ding an SoB list for being "beardy". On the contrary most people like fighting my SoB because they are so different and uncommon. They are only Str 8 but can destroy AV 14 because of AP 1. Downright deadly against anything below AV 14, and you've got tons of Melta for that.


Au contraire. I got my comp pwned in an RTT, and the triple exorcist was the only possible reason. This was in a stupid system that allowed negative comp scores, even -- I got between -2 and 1, out of a possible 5 or 6, from every person in the tournament.. It might have been that everyone feared my army so they wanted to chipmunk me, or they might have known I was a top competitor -- I did smoke everyone I played in that tournament, including the guy who got "first place." Mind you this was 4th ed, I haven't done that much smoking in 5th ed because everyone goes so crazy with anti-tank.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1601677.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1601677.page GMT Re:Sisters Army?
notabot187 wrote:if you put her in a seraphim squad with vet that totals about 7-9 after she joins you can usually get most powers off since you roll 3 and pick 2 IIRC.


And then they lose hit and run and your meat shields for the canoness are 22 pts a piece. No thanks.


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Ixe wrote:

Au contraire. I got my comp pwned in an RTT, and the triple exorcist was the only possible reason. This was in a stupid system that allowed negative comp scores, even -- I got between -2 and 1, out of a possible 5 or 6, from every person in the tournament.. It might have been that everyone feared my army so they wanted to chipmunk me, or they might have known I was a top competitor -- I did smoke everyone I played in that tournament, including the guy who got "first place." Mind you this was 4th ed, I haven't done that much smoking in 5th ed because everyone goes so crazy with anti-tank.


That's insane. They probably also comped DH for being OP.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1602221.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1602221.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1603212.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1603212.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:Besides, the Canoness / Living Saint doesn't use Retinue rules for Seraphim squads. She uses Independent Character rules. Which means she CAN be singled out in close combat.


Yeah, the problem with Eviscerator equipped Cannonness is that even a Space Marine Sergeant on the charge with a power sword can take her down. She's there to get you over the hump against other shooty units that still pack good stat lines (Tactical Marines for example, not all that rare) but shes not very survivable and a smart opponent will take her down before she swings. That's why the retinues are nice, they give her some meat shields that aren't bad in melee and combined they give you crap load of faith AND the retinues don't take up any FoC slots.


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Ixe wrote:
eNvY wrote:
2-3 Exorcists. Nobody is going to ding an SoB list for being "beardy". On the contrary most people like fighting my SoB because they are so different and uncommon. They are only Str 8 but can destroy AV 14 because of AP 1. Downright deadly against anything below AV 14, and you've got tons of Melta for that.


Au contraire. I got my comp pwned in an RTT, and the triple exorcist was the only possible reason. This was in a stupid system that allowed negative comp scores, even -- I got between -2 and 1, out of a possible 5 or 6, from every person in the tournament.. It might have been that everyone feared my army so they wanted to chipmunk me, or they might have known I was a top competitor -- I did smoke everyone I played in that tournament, including the guy who got "first place." Mind you this was 4th ed, I haven't done that much smoking in 5th ed because everyone goes so crazy with anti-tank.


Well I feel that comp is slowed anyways, but that's for another thread. Sometimes they ding you simply because of redundancy, but that's the hallmark of a good list IMO. Besides, any sting I would feel in comp scores would be quickly forgetting when I'm smashing apart Rhinos and Chimeras left and right with my 3 "beardy" exorcists ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1605248.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1605248.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1605268.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1605268.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1605271.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1605271.page GMT Sisters Army?
eNvY wrote:
Melissia wrote:Besides, the Canoness / Living Saint doesn't use Retinue rules for Seraphim squads. She uses Independent Character rules. Which means she CAN be singled out in close combat.


Yeah, the problem with Eviscerator equipped Cannonness is that even a Space Marine Sergeant on the charge with a power sword can take her down. She's there to get you over the hump against other shooty units that still pack good stat lines (Tactical Marines for example, not all that rare) but shes not very survivable and a smart opponent will take her down before she swings. That's why the retinues are nice, they give her some meat shields that aren't bad in melee and combined they give you crap load of faith AND the retinues don't take up any FoC slots.

Not with a 2+ invulnerable save, that Vet Sgt is not. She is one of the most survivable characters I've ever fielded. If you can make a Ld10 check every turn, she stays in combat and locks down a unit. The only thing to watch out for is torrents of attacks (30 wounds on her will make her die eventually just due to 1's being rolled). But for TW Cav, characters, etc. She's fine.

I locked down a squad of Assault Termies at 'AB for like 3 or 4 turns until she wiped them out. 2+ invulnerable is awesome. Not to mention with Hand of the Emperor she insta-kills Marine Characters with one wound getting through.

Retinues on the other hand make it harder for her to get her invul, but give you more swings and more bodies.

I prefer the solo JP myself.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1606786.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1606786.page GMT Sisters Army?
Remember, you have to burn a faith point EVERY PHASE. That means six to eight faith points burned for your little stunt. Which is faith points that your Battle Sisters couldn't use to Rapid Fire (indeed it could very well have been all of the faith points in your army!). Even with martyrdom, that kind of Act of Faith usage is impossible to keep up while still maintaining your army's overall effectiveness... basically you can focus all of your acts of faith to ensure that your solo Canoness is badass, but at the cost of the rest of your army.

Meanwhile, I can instead give her a retinue, and she'll STILL be badass. But the rest fo my army is stronger.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1606958.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1606958.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:If you're spending all of your fiath points on giving the Canoness a 2+ save, then you're not doing a very good job managing the army.
Remember, you have to burn a faith point EVERY PHASE. That means six to eight faith points burned for your little stunt. Which is faith points that your Battle Sisters couldn't use to Rapid Fire (indeed it could very well have been all of the faith points in your army!). Even with martyrdom, that kind of Act of Faith usage is impossible to keep up while still maintaining your army's overall effectiveness... basically you can focus all of your acts of faith to ensure that your solo Canoness is badass, but at the cost of the rest of your army.

Meanwhile, I can instead give her a retinue, and she'll STILL be badass. But the rest fo my army is stronger.


Kind of a bold statement. Here's my (paraphrased) bold statement.

The less apt a (wo)man is to make declarative statements, the less apt (s)he is to make a fool of him(her)self.

It is one faith point per phase, sure. Most combats aren't going to last 6 turns. Keep in mind she has an eviscerator too, so she's still dealing out pain.

In my experience, I can use her to tie up key units that my girls may have a problem with while the girls deal with the rest of the army and I rarely run out of faith until turn 5 or 6 (at which point faith may come back from troop squads/celestians/seraphim dying). That includes generous faith use for the rest of my army as well.

I agree that the retinue thing is a good trick, but it is also more expensive. My canoness is 116 points of MEQ character killing, Assault unit tieing up, surprise assaulting goodness. Canoness, retinue and immo are gonna be a bit more than that. It is also a matter of personal preference, something we forget sometimes.

In the 'Ard Boyz scenario I mentioned against Terminators, she ignored Thunder Hammers and Lightning claws for several turns, wiping out a full squad and I still managed to Divine Guidance squads of sisters and regroup a few with points left over, massacre-ing my opponent.


The one place where my canoness is weak (in my 2nd and 3rd 'AB games) is if I leave her unattached and she gets shot. But that is a 'remind myself' kind of thing that I am bad at sometimes.
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Ixe wrote:The solo jump canoness is a 4th edition relic. It doesn't work in 5th. Why? Defenders React. Now, you're automatically surrounded on the turn you charge and you're always going to be hit with the maximum number of attacks. Against certain very specific targets it's great. But some armies just won't present any targets like that, i.e. any horde army or any assault oriented army. If a unit is worthless against a substantial segment of armies, it is a bad unit and shouldn't be taken. The jump Canoness was awesome in 4th edition, but it's 2010 now. Wake up and smell the the new edition.


Geeze, what is up with people today? Did you really need to whip out the derision firehose for your opinion of a unit? Can't you just say 'I disagree. Based on the new rules surrounding Defenders reacting, her role has changed.'

If you read what I wrote, it still works against tough units because of the 2+, but torrent can become a problem. You still want to attack elite units with her. (TWC, Assault Termies, Command Squads, etc) You do not want to attack things with 20 of anything (Boyz, Gaunt Squads, etc)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1607239.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1607239.page GMT Sisters Army? ot believe happening...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1607371.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1607371.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:All it takes are two S6+ wounds to get through that 2+ invulnerable save, and she's gone. That's not so hard ot believe happening...


It actually only takes one. I don't run her with the mantle. She has drawbacks. There are no combat monsters in C:WH for assault. But there are Martyrs. JP Canoness makes a great Hero/Martyr. Either she spectacularly stops the Heretic or she dies after holding them back for quite a while. That's win/win while the rest of my army is disassembling your non-rock units.

All it takes is one str 8 wound on many SM characters or Str10 on a TWC killer Wolf Lord. Not so hard to believe that happening either. The difference is mine is 116 pts for 3 Wd, Eviscerator, Ld10 Stubborn, Tarpit of doom. Add in her mobility and she allows me to pick my battles and which units I want near me at any given time. Same reason I run Seraphim. They let me control who is in assault when.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1607377.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1607377.page GMT Sisters Army?
But that's a fluff objection rather than a gameplay one.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1607862.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1607862.page GMT Sisters Army?
Melissia wrote:Maybe. But I will never, ever support the idea of martyrdom as a commonly used tactic. It seems completely and utterly moronic to sacrifice your leaders, veterans of hundreds of battles, every single small skirmish you get involved in... you'd run out of them rather quickly I'd think, assuming you ever got any in the first place.

But that's a fluff objection rather than a gameplay one.


It's leading from the front. A common practice in warfare. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1607947.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1607947.page GMT Sisters Army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1608141.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1608141.page GMT Sisters Army?
Necrosis wrote:Has anyone ever tried building a death star unit with sisters? Cause I run a Canoness in a squad of Celetians with a Priest. I arm the Canoness, Priest and Veteran with Eviscerators. I seem to be having much success with this unit.


While that squad certainly has some punch, that's a lot of points to invest in a str 6 power weapon (I have a hard time justifying them on my Tactical Sergeants where they are S8) on a bunch of now expensive T3 models. You'd have to pump a bunch of faith points into them to make them even slightly survivable.

Ask any Eldar player what it feels like to have their 300 point unit gunned down by a tactical squad.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1608432.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1608432.page GMT Sisters Army?
Necrosis wrote:Has anyone ever tried building a death star unit with sisters? Cause I run a Canoness in a squad of Celetians with a Priest. I arm the Canoness, Priest and Veteran with Eviscerators. I seem to be having much success with this unit.


It's too expensive for what it does, for how fragile it is, and for how easy it is to stop/avoid. Since it's riding an AV11 tank, it just takes one missile shot to take it out of the game. And since it has no assault vehicle, it's got a very limited charge range, meaning enemies that fear it can just stay back. It's not the worst idea, because 10 S6 power attacks that reroll hits is pretty good against almost anything. But it's not the most efficient way to take enemies apart either. For the points, I prefer to tie them up with Seraphim (who can't have their mobility taken away) and then shoot them to death after the Seraphim hit & run. I suppose you could run a tag team of Seraphim + Canoness deathstar, since the Seraphim could jump in first and tie them down. I don't know if it's a competitive idea but it would be interesting to play with.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1609838.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296120/1609838.page GMT