http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net SM, but IF you were doing a First Company army I'd take this:

HQ:

Chaplain
Combi-Melta
Digital Weapons
Jump Pack

140

ELITES

Sternguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
x 1 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

230

Sternguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
x 1 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

230

Sternguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
x 1 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

230

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

ASSAULT

Vanguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 8

280

Vanguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 8

280

Vanguard Veteran Squad (8 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 8

280


Sternguard squads get into cover and provide heavy fire support (missile launchers taken cause in need of anti-armour).
Razorbacks with tac squads go to cover objectives (if applicable) or tank hunting.
Vanguards (with attached Chaplain to one squad) goes rampaging through enemy lines.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1599770.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1599770.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1599821.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1599821.page GMT
Pedro Kantor.....you get Sternguards as scoring units.

meh.

Orbital Bombardmen. hmmmmm maybe

Inspiring Presence. up to 12" units get an extra attack....
BUT......is that enough to make up for one of my assault squads not benefiting from Liturgies of Battle.

Stubborn. All units don't have to undergo leadership or morale tests.......MAYBE

I'll think about it.

But chaplain works I know.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1599859.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1599859.page GMT Just cut some Veteran here and there, changing from 8x sq. to 7x doesn't really transform your list but after you'll have 5 scoring units trasforming one just Fluffy list in something at least playable.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1599909.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1599909.page GMT
Just would love to see what happens when you actually use these guys in combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok.... refielded army with 2 HQs:

HQ

Pedro Kantor

175

Chaplain
Combi-Melta
Jump Pack

130

ELITES

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
Missile Launcher

205

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
Missile Launcher

205

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
x 4 Combi-Plasma
Missile Launcher

205

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

ASSAULT

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 7

250

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 7

250

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 7

250


VOILA]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1599922.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1599922.page GMT AT is sorely lacking at this point level. I would get Fists on as many sergeants as possible, and if you're really tight on points maybe only melta bombs on the vangaurd sergeants.

Pedro is a no brainer for this list. Your Vanguard now have 5 attacks per model on the charge.

I think you should replace the combi-plasmas with Combi-meltas. Even against 2+ armor saves Hellfires work great, and you still need the AT. Not to mention a melta shot is still AP 1.

The Missile Launcher seems sort of out of place. Perhaps you should take 3 units of 10, that way you can take combis and heavy weapons and combat squad them so that you have a mobile half and a heavy weapon half. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1600050.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1600050.page GMT PF on the Chaplain, for only 15 points is the cheaper available and, more important, is on one 4+ invulnerable save character.

Little by little your originally "only fluffy" list start to became a really nice list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1600244.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1600244.page GMT
OK i'm going to redo the list for a third time, see what happens....

Sternguard Sergeants don't need Power Fists. They just need their Trusty Bolter. Vanguard....I'll see about changing the squad with chaplain in it to Power Fist. oooh.....rerolled rolls to hit with Str 8 Power Fists!! mmmmmm
HQ

Pedro Kantor

175

Chaplain
Crozius Arcanum
Power Fist
Jump Pack

130

ELITES

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
x 4 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

205

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7man)
x 4 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

205

Sternguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
x 4 Combi-Melta
Missile Launcher

205

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback

130

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

ASSAULT

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
Sergeant: Power Fists
Jump Packs x 7

270

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claw
Power Fist
Jump Packs x 7

260

Vanguard Veteran Squad (7 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 7

250
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1602417.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1602417.page GMT

Chaplain doesn't need a power fist, if a model has two special weapnos you use one or the other. Drop the fist and put the fist on the sgt instead.

Sternguard are completely messed up. You've got 7 men so you cannot combat squad and no rhinos for transport so you're just going to stand there and fire one missile, this is a big waste of the sternguard you're paying to use their special ammo and you're not.

Take twin-linked lascannons on both razorbacks or else one will become target priority.

Vanguard aren't that good in the vanilla codex; they're over priced. I'd just take normal assault marines and say they're veterans ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1603111.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1603111.page GMT
I kinda agree with chaplain and power fist. But then again I like the idea of a power fisted Chaplain.

Sternguard.....that was the points speaking, and the missile launcher is cause I don't have much long rang anti armour.

Razorbacks...points again. couldn't afford two T-L Lascannons.

Vanguard are annoyingly expensive for one reason only. They don't have jump packs as standard!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK Redone to boost the Sternguard levels and reduce costs:

HQ

Pedro Kantor

175

Chaplain
Crozius Arcanum
Digital Weapons
Jump Pack

125

ELITES

Sternguard Veteran Squad (10 man)
Rhino

285

Sternguard Veteran Squad (10man)
Rhino

285

Sternguard Veteran Squad (10 man)
Rhino
285

TROOPS

Scout Squad (5 man)
Sniper Rifles
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

150

Scout Squad (5 man)
Sniper Rifles
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

150

ASSAULT

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5 man)
Sergeant: Power Fist
Jump Packs x 5

185

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claw
Jump Packs x 5

175

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claw
Jump Packs x 5

175


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I actually don't like this list now cause it places too many points in the sternguard. Yes their bolters are nice, but the vanguard now will have to be very lucky on their charge (20 attacks on charge is ok I guess).

Because of adding the Rhinos and upping the sternguard to 10 man it's become a meh list in my eyes.

Had to change tac squads to scouts. At least they get sniper rifles.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1605784.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1605784.page GMT ccw & pistol, so that's three on the charge

You've still got missile launchers in the sternguard. So you're hanging back and shooting and the preimum price you've paid for that special ammo is doing nothing and been wasted. Drop the missile launcher; sternguard are not heavy support. Taking the sternguard in 10 man unit is definately better, they just need transport!

The thing with vanguard is they're expensive and do not come with jump packs as standard. You've also got to deep strike them in to take advantage of that funky special rule which you're paying so many points for. But because you can fluff this up you could lose the unit. Vanguard are a lot better in a blood angels list because angels only scatter 1D6" so that means your vanguard will always be in assault range when deep striking., more or less.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1606154.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1606154.page GMT ML in latest profile...


I have officially decided Vanguard and Sternguard are not worth their points.

Vanguard are only worth it if you take Relic Blades and have uber amount of points to spend.

And Sternguard are basically a longer ranged bolter squad that can die just as easily in CC as a tac squad.....

GRRRR]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1606272.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1606272.page GMT

Excellent point on both units. Sternguard are best against anti infantry. I have found dragon rounds and krakken ronuds to be the best ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1606419.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1606419.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1606597.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1606597.page GMT
They will be easily targetted as on the middle of the table but they will can strike immediately on the good targets.

Finally, even if they're still over priced this is the best way to use them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1607620.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1607620.page GMT
get ur scouts out of rhinos and get ur stern in there, clearly this list is not a sit and shoot army. you need to get stern into the fight to dbltap as many people as possible. with pedro in there they are scoring units so they have more reason to be mobile, scout/snipers suck harder than hard. you don't reduce the weapons power AND the BS of the unit that uses it. give em shotties or something. if you could i'd suggest giving your scouts the fists. as of now they just seem like filler without any real benefit to the army. nothing to make the anything more than crappy scouts, if you can strap fists to them they become something that needs to be dealt with along with all your fire power. Infiltrating powerfists sounds interesting if possible.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1607778.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1607778.page GMT
Giving Scouts Sniper Rifles and Razorbacks

And this list is a shoot and assault army. Sternguard and scouts soften up the enemy before the Vanguard jump in and finish off low number squads.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609332.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609332.page GMT
Taking Pedro would up that to 34 guys and assaulting those guys would now have 3 attacks each. The Vangaurd within 12" would get 5 attacks each on the charge, 4 as standard!

I doubt you'll ever use the orbital bombardment. Stubborn is poor on space marines. I don't really like missile launchers on the sterngaurd or the lack of transports, but if you're going down that route why not get 2 MLs? Or even 2 Lascannons which are quite cheap for Sternguard (5 Sternguard with 2 LCs is cheaper than 5 Devastators with 2 LCs, But gain the advantages of 2 attacks each, special ammo and are scoring).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609346.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609346.page GMT
10 man squad in a drop pod with 4 combi meltas has worked pretty well for me (usually 1 or 2 units) - you can drop, combat squad with 2 combi-meltas in each and blast two of the opponents tanks with one unit - or drop far away and shooot with bolters and special ammo. Works even better with 2 drop pods coming down on turn one (need 3 DPs in total for this)

Just some thoughts...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609358.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609358.page GMT
Bear in mind I don't have any rhinos or drop pods IRL.

I may cut one of the Assault Squads....

Let's see. what happens if I do this:

HQ
Pedro and Chaplain (unchanged)

300

ELITES:

Sternguard Squads (10 man) x2
x 2 Combi-Melta in each
x 2 Drop Pods

660

Troops

Tac Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ Heavy Flamer

155

Scout Squad (5 man)
Sniper Rifles x 4
Missile Launcher

85

ASSAULT:

Vanguard Squads x 3 (6 man)
Lightning Claws
Power Fist
Power Fist
Jump Packs x 6

795


Given Vanguard one more guy in each squad to make them worthwhile actually taking.

Scout squad has missile launcher to give it some more firepower.

Taking 2 combi-meltas per sternguard squad, combat-squadded, means if one squad doesn't get the tank, the other should.....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609427.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609427.page GMT
You need another drop pod or they won't be arriving together.

Razorback squad is niether fluffy nor particularly effective with a heavy flamer.

Scout missile launcher will miss. Camocloaks would do them far more good (maybe 2 min camocloak squads would be the best option for your troops). THen you have 2 units with 2+ cover save to objective camp and the enemy will have to assault them off to get rid of them.

5 or 6 Vanguard doesn't really make much difference you might be better off with just 2 squads of 8. Particularly if one squad is going with the Chappy you want as many bodies as possible to benefit from his litanies...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609530.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609530.page GMT
I just hate HAVING to take 2 troop choises.

UNLESS I lower the amount of sternguard and vanguard i'm taking....

NEW LIST:

Pedro Kantor

175

Chaplain
Combi-Melta
Jump Pack

125

ELITES

Sternguard (10 man)
x 7 combi-melta
Drop Pod

320

Sternguard (10 man)
x 6 combi-melta
Drop Pod

315

TRANSPORTS

Drop Pod

35

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w T-L Lascannon

165

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

165

ASSAULT

Vanguard (10 man)
Sergeant: Power Fist
Lightning Claw
Jump Packs x 10

350

Vanguard (10 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 10

340


2000 points on the nose. Two fully tooled up sternguard. 2 powerful vanguard squads. TWO tac squads for parking on objectives with their razorbacks blasting armour.....

don't think this army would work against hoardes...



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609576.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609576.page GMT .

However your army isn't legal you have a drop pod transport that hasn't been bought for anyone. You need it to be bought for a specific unit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609619.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609619.page GMT
And if i'm going against Orks i'm taking my normal army lol.

This army's for Chaos or maybe Eldar.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609753.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609753.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609796.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609796.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609803.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609803.page GMT
Can sternguard combat squadded take one drop pod?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609823.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609823.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609864.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609864.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609877.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609877.page GMT
Then you've got four rhinos and two razorbacks with some decent fire support.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609959.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1609959.page GMT ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1613578.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1613578.page GMT
And with 4 attacks on the charge that's a lot of hits....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1623212.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1623212.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1623525.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1623525.page GMT lol.

Honestly yes if I was going to actually play this list i'd take assault marines every time cause basically having to pay for jump packs sucks.

But this is a fluffy list!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1623664.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1623664.page GMT

HQ:

Chaplain
Jump Pack
Digital Weapons

125

Chaplain
Jump Pack
Digital Weaopons

125

ELITES

Dreadnought
T-L Lascannon
Missile Launcher

145

Dreadnought
T-L Lascannon
Missile Launcher

145

Dreadnought
T-L Autocannon

115

Troops

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claw
Bolt Pistol
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Rhino

220

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claw
Bolt Pistol
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Rhino

220

FAST ATTACK / ASSAULT

Vanguard Veteran Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
x8 Lightning Claws
x 10 Jump Packs

460

Vanguard Veteran Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
x 7 Lightning Claws
x 10 Jump Packs

445

TOTAL: 2000

No more pesky sternguard! And vanguard can arrive via deep strike (thunderhawk drop).

Dreadnoughts take out enemy armour along with Tac Squads and Vanguard strike with........88 attacks in one turn!!!

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674276.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674276.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674307.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674307.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674321.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674321.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674323.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674323.page GMT
I like the idea of a chaplain with a vanguard squad though! they'd decimate anything!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK I have it.

Captain and chaplain HQ

Captain goes with one of the Tac Squads in Rhino tankhunting.

Chaplain joins NORMAL Assault Squad.

Vanguard Vet squad deep strikes in when needed.

extra points go on landspeeder typhoon and kitting Captain out for anti-tank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SO let's see.......redone list AGAIN (I swear i'll get better!)

HQ:

Captain:
Artificer Armour
Relic Blade
Storm Shield

160

Chaplain
Jump Pack
Plasma Pistol
Digital Weapons

140

ELITES

Dreadnoughts as before

405

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Power Fist
Bolt Pistol
Melta Gun
Multi Melta
Rhino w/ Extra Armour

250

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claw
Bolt Pistol
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Rhino w/ extra Storm Bolter

230

FAST ATTACK / ASSAULT

Assault Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
x 2 Flamers

240

Vanguard Veteran Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
x8 Lightning Claws
x 1 Power Fist
x10 Jump Packs

485

Landspeeder Typhoon

90

TOTAL: 2000







]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674329.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674329.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674906.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674906.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674911.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1674911.page GMT HQ:

Pedro Kantor
175

Chaplain
Jump Pack
Digital Weapons

140

ELITES:

Sternguard Squad (8 man)
x 8 Combi-Plasma

240

Sternguard Squad (8 man)
x 8 Combi-Melta
240

Dreadnought
T-L Lascannon
Missile Launcher

145

Troops:

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Sergeant: Powerfist
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

190

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Sergeant: Powerfist
Razorback w/ T-L Lascannon

190

FAST ATTACK /ASSAULT

Vanguard Veteran Squad (9 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claws
x 5 Lightning Claws
Melta Bombs x 3
Jump Packs x 9

420

Assault Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Powerfists
X2 Flamers

260


TOTAL 2000


Sternguard are back! and they'll find cover, not drive around in pesky rhinos.
Tac squads have power fists so they don't die so easily when assaulted. and T-L lascannon takes care of heavies coming for them.
Vanguard can deep strike in near enemy armour and take out using melta bombs.

Chaplain goes with normal assault squad to rampage through infantry lines.







]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1677997.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/296442/1677997.page GMT